Do you believe in once saved, always saved?

[IisJustMe]

I know people who have turned away from God after deciding Christianity is wrong or not for them. They have been the deepest christians, in fact I knew one guy who's ambition even at the age of 12 was to become a missionary. He became the strongest type of christian, then dropped it all due to various reasons.

He had an emotional experience, not a 'saving-grace' experience. This is the error of those who do not accept the biblical truth of eternal security. Just because a person says, 'I'm saved!' and makes a great series of plans to serve in Africa or wherever is no assurance at all they really believe what they are saying. I can claim with utmost conviction that I am a car, and I can go stand in a garage. That doesn't make me a car.

Making plans to serve God is not evidence of anything but a good imagination, or of someone who knows how to use a Frankling Quest planner. If one is truly convicted of his sinful nature and his need for Jesus Christ as his Savior, nothing will deter him (or her, of course) from serving Christ. Certainly they will sin, certainly they will fall, and sometimes they may even look very un-Christianlike in their daily lives. But God does not abandon someone He has saved. Would a lifeguard throw a drowning man back into the surf? Of course not, and we being sinful but yet being compassionate enough not to do such a callus act, how much more will God preserve the one He has delivered from sin? Nor would a person who, upon spotting a tornado, enter a tornado shelter and then, at the height of the storm, leave the shelter. Doing so would speak of a complete failure to grasp the situation.

And that is what those who 'walk away from Christ' are doing. They don't have a grasp of the situation, because if they did they would cling to Him for dear life. Not having a grasp of Who Christ is means one is not saved, therefore walking away is possible, because they don't have what a true believer has: conviction, and faith.

It is arrogant to consider ourselves 'saved', because firstly, none of us know the future, and secondly, none of us has God's authority to judge.

Fortunately, we have God's assurance of His love for us and the statement by Jesus that 'no one can take them from My hand ... no one can take them from My Father's hand' and 'no one' includes us.

That is simply arrogance, and the bible clearly stated that one should 'not judge lest ye be judged'.

Actually, if there be arrogance, it is that statement, which pretends to understand a passage you obviously do not understand. If this passage means as you claim, then why would Paul tell us we must judge ourselves, and if we judge rightly, we will not be judged at all? Paul speaks of unrighteous judgment here -- the exact kind of judgment you are making by saying we cannot be assured of our salvation. The problem is, you've embraced this verse to eliminate eternal security, and it must be taken within the context of other passages which prove eternal security.

 

[Kristi1]

I voted ~> Once Saved Always Saved!

One can walk away from God, and one can turn their back on God, But, God Never Turns His Back on us EVER!

 

[Katakalupto]

I voted No. I feel that the passage in Hebrews is making mention of a possibility. I'm not saying that lost salvation happens often, but from that passage I believe that a Christian can choose to turn their back on Christ and deny his existence. If that were to happen, I feel that person would lose their salvation by rejecting their saviour having known of His amazing love and the heavenly reward awaiting them.

 

[Soldat_fur_Christ]

I voted No. I feel that the passage in Hebrews is making mention of a possibility. I'm not saying that lost salvation happens often, but from that passage I believe that a Christian can choose to turn their back on Christ and deny his existence. If that were to happen, I feel that person would lose their salvation by rejecting their saviour having known of His amazing love and the heavenly reward awaiting them.

No, the hebrews passage is talking about someone on the virge of saving faith, but then turning away. Trust me, If we could lose our salvation, Paul would have warned us, Christ would have warned us, the other apostles, and writers would have warned us.

A true saving faith is recognizing that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, and thus being sinless, he fulfilled God's perfect and holy law, and died on the cross to pay for the sins of the people. He became our sin sacrifice, our lamb, he was buried, and resurrected to life. We need to know that we are justly condemned before God, and that Jesus is the only way, and if we trully understand, and know what the bible makes clear to us, all those who have a repenting faith will be saved. (The greek in the word, when it talks about repentence it means a repenting faith, your going to continue repenting of your sins the rest of your life) Obviously there is one act of salvation, and your in the Narrow gate, but you got to make sure your through the narrow gate, and on the narrow path.

 

[Katakalupto]

No, the hebrews passage is talking about someone on the virge of saving faith, but then turning away. Trust me, If we could lose our salvation, Paul would have warned us, Christ would have warned us, the other apostles, and writers would have warned us.

A true saving faith is recognizing that Jesus was born of the virgin Mary, and thus being sinless, he fulfilled God's perfect and holy law, and died on the cross to pay for the sins of the people. He became our sin sacrifice, our lamb, he was buried, and resurrected to life. We need to know that we are justly condemned before God, and that Jesus is the only way, and if we trully understand, and know what the bible makes clear to us, all those who have a repenting faith will be saved. (The greek in the word, when it talks about repentence it means a repenting faith, your going to continue repenting of your sins the rest of your life) Obviously there is one act of salvation, and your in the Narrow gate, but you got to make sure your through the narrow gate, and on the narrow path.

You may interpret that passage that way. I don't. No need to tell me I am wrong. Paul told us that there would be differences among believers. It doesn't mean there is a right or wrong way, just different. I don't believe in OSAS, maybe when I enter into heaven I will find out I am wrong. Maybe not, but in the grand scheme of things, does it matter enough to argue with someone about?

 

[trinityisunity]

I personally do not subscribe to the o.s.a.s. doctrine. The reason for this is because of something that happened to me 2.5 years ago. I was saved about 11 years ago but after 3 years I had backslidden back to my former ways, I still believed in God but did not honor or obey Him in any way. I became really sick 2.5 years ago and was in alot of pain. I felt God saying to me, "Where are you going to spend eternity?" I very quickly returned to the Lord in all ways.

To me o.s.a.s. is not something I would take as a fact, however if you do believe it that does not bother me at all. I guess as Christians we all believe the major doctrines and we all have varying views on the lesser issues, because at the end of the day does this belief matter?

 

[RajunCajun86]

but in the grand scheme of things, does it matter enough to argue with someone about?

yes, security of salvation is worth arguing about!
i do agree with osas as a doctrine that you cannot lose your salvation
i do not agree in the lifestyle that often accompanies these arguments that i can do whatever sin i want and God will forgive me(even though He will)

1 What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2 May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3 Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4 Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
Romans 6

 

[RajunCajun86]

remember that John says that if someone "falls away" then it shows that they were never saved in the first place

They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been of us, they would have remained with us; but they went out, so that it would be shown that they all are not of us.
1 John 2:19

 

[Savedsis]

I believe once saved always saved..I don't think you can lose your salvation, however, I believe you can lose your assurance..
Our security rests in the hands of an unconditionally loving heavenly Father..One who gave His best to insure our fellowship with Him forever..Our assurance rests in understand and acceptance of these glorious thruths...
The salvation spoken my Jesus and Paul takes place at one moment in time yet seals the believer for all time..This faith moves the Judge not only to forgive and pardon the sinner, but to adopt him into His own family as well..Why the mercy? Why the kindness? The answer is LOVE...Love of such magnitude that all human imaginings fall short..God's love is such that He accepts us just the way we are but refuses to leave us there...The more one meditates and reflects on the nature of this unconditional love, the more absurd it sounds when someone begins talking about losing it...WHy would God take away something He offers unconditionally?

 

[alkan]

He had an emotional experience, not a 'saving-grace' experience. This is the error of those who do not accept the biblical truth of eternal security. Just because a person says, 'I'm saved!' and makes a great series of plans to serve in Africa or wherever is no assurance at all they really believe what they are saying. I can claim with utmost conviction that I am a car, and I can go stand in a garage. That doesn't make me a car.

You don't know him, therefore you cannot comment on this case at all. He was a good person, and still is in his everyday morals. He never had the arrogance to go around saying he was saved, but knew, and let me know that he knew God could and would save him. I just pray to God that he turns back to God.

The question I would like to pose to you is that how do you ever know a person is truly absolved of their sins? That's something I believe can only be between God and the person themselves. You can't comment on whether the guy in question here had any kind of emotional experience; only he knows his reasons for abandoning his faith.

If one is truly convicted of his sinful nature and his need for Jesus Christ as his Savior, nothing will deter him (or her, of course) from serving Christ. Certainly they will sin, certainly they will fall, and sometimes they may even look very un-Christianlike in their daily lives.

I'm sorry; I cannot agree with you here; every time we sin we are turn away from God, and are not devoting our lives to serving Jesus. When I do something bad I have to block God out of my mind completely to do it, otherwise I cannot do it, because I love him so much.

But God does not abandon someone He has saved. Would a lifeguard throw a drowning man back into the surf? Of course not, and we being sinful but yet being compassionate enough not to do such a callus act, how much more will God preserve the one He has delivered from sin? Nor would a person who, upon spotting a tornado, enter a tornado shelter and then, at the height of the storm, leave the shelter. Doing so would speak of a complete failure to grasp the situation.

Would a lifeguard throw a drowning man back on to the surf? No. But we do the craziest things in sinning. We turn away from God, betray him, and let him take our place to get us out of the firing line. It's a crazy situation, a very one way relationship in some ways; but when we are at one with God, it is the best relationship we ever have, something completely amazing. God gives this to us freely, and gives us the choice to accept it. But we DO turn away from this, we DO sin, and yes, we DO turn back to him, most of the time. But sometimes people don't. It's not for you or I to say what only God can say; whether a person is saved.

And that is what those who 'walk away from Christ' are doing. They don't have a grasp of the situation, because if they did they would cling to Him for dear life. Not having a grasp of Who Christ is means one is not saved, therefore walking away is possible, because they don't have what a true believer has: conviction, and faith.

I'm sorry; still no agreement. I want to cling to him for dear life, but sometimes the ralationship becomes strained, entirely through my own foolish human nature. I need God's help to get back on track; I need the Holy Sprit to help me humble myself enough to admit I need God's help; I can't go it alone.

Fortunately, we have God's assurance of His love for us and the statement by Jesus that 'no one can take them from My hand ... no one can take them from My Father's hand' and 'no one' includes us.
Actually, if there be arrogance, it is that statement, which pretends to understand a passage you obviously do not understand. If this passage means as you claim, then why would Paul tell us we must judge ourselves, and if we judge rightly, we will not be judged at all? Paul speaks of unrighteous judgment here -- the exact kind of judgment you are making by saying we cannot be assured of our salvation. The problem is, you've embraced this verse to eliminate eternal security, and it must be taken within the context of other passages which prove eternal security.

Excuse me, but I did not accuse you of arrogance for your differing interpretation and believing you are right. I will allow you your view without telling you you are wrong; I will only say what I think, but I won't attempt to dismiss what you say as arrogance. Please give me the same respect. OK. Maybe you didn't mean offence, but you did cause it.

The arrogance I speak of is that of a person who would judge someone as being saved or not, while not being God. Sure, nobody can steal us away from God's grasp, but this is not to say that if we opened the door of the lifeboat and jumped off to use your metaphor again, God would force us against our will to do that. It would be stupid, but humans are stupid. That's why we need all the spiritual nourishment we can get. Otherwise, what's the point of hearing the scriptures, sharing the eucharist, attending church, praying or anything like that? If we know we are saved, why do anything more?




Please though, when you try and answer a post like mine, could you not do it from such a viewpoint as to dismiss my views. That's the last thing that would convince me your views are correct, though I try to keep an open mind.
God bless

 

[alkan]

remember that John says that if someone "falls away" then it shows that they were never saved in the first place

Thank you for quoting this passage; it's the first good evidence I've heard to support the argument. I'd better have a read through

 

[RajunCajun86]

Thank you for quoting this passage

you're welcome

 

[alkan]

you're welcome

Umm... Sorry to say, this is not exactly what my Bible says on the matter. It's a slightly older translation, in which it appears your quote was perhaps out of context

Could you let me know the translation so I can read around it a bit?

Thanx

 

[alkan]

Sorry; I just found your passage online in the NIV. Ok, it does seem to mean as you say, however, I still don't believe in 'once saved always saved'; but will certainly give it some thought. Your quoting of this passage has certainly muddied my mind a bit, and I maybe need to reconsider exactly what is meant by this phrase 'once saved always saved'. Perhaps the 1John passage is true in the way you meant it, but i can't say I'm keen on feeling 'saved for ever'; I feel I need God to keep me on the right track, as does everyone.

 

[RajunCajun86]

Umm... Sorry to say, this is not exactly what my Bible says on the matter. It's a slightly older translation, in which it appears your quote was perhaps out of context

Could you let me know the translation so I can read around it a bit?

Thanx

NASB

 

[HumbleMan]

Umm... Sorry to say, this is not exactly what my Bible says on the matter. It's a slightly older translation, in which it appears your quote was perhaps out of context

Could you let me know the translation so I can read around it a bit?

Thanx

Don't mean to jump in front of Rajun, but that looks like a quote from the NASB, which is about the most literal translation on the market.

ETA: He beat me to it.

 

[RajunCajun86]

Don't mean to jump in front of Rajun, but that looks like a quote from the NASB, which is about the most literal translation on the market.

ETA: He beat me to it.

not a problem
and you got a bingo on the NASB

 

[alkan]

NASB? New something something Bible?


["looks like a quote from the NASB, which is about the most literal translation on the market."

btw, most literal doesn't necessarily mean easiest to use for usto get the right meaning due to the differences in how a meaning is achieved in different languages. Not that I mean to degrade this translation at all, just a point to remember...]

 

[alkan]

NASB? New something something Bible?


["looks like a quote from the NASB, which is about the most literal translation on the market."

btw, most literal doesn't necessarily mean easiest to use for usto get the right meaning due to the differences in how a meaning is achieved in different languages. Not that I mean to degrade this translation at all, just a point to remember...]

Ah, found it, New American Standard Bible.

 

[RajunCajun86]

NASB? New something something Bible?

New American Standard Bible