Sadalmelik
Well-Known Member
apologize for what, showing the problems with your pov? if your this sensitive and take things so personally, perhaps a debate forum is not where you should be....just a thought
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And neither does eternal punishment.
Death does not mean cessation.
1 Timothy 5:6
6 But she who gives herself to wanton pleasure is dead even while she lives.
Care to translate?
Please do not PM me again with another apology.
You had opportunity to address the several Scriptures I quoted. You didn't/couldn't.apologize for what, showing the problems with your pov? if your this sensitive and take things so personally, perhaps a debate forum is not where you should be....just a thought
However, we are not God. Our standards of righteousness and what is good are not the same as His. Our standards are nowhere near what His standards are. Our ways are not His ways and our thoughts are not His thoughts (Isaiah 55:8). His standard of good is infinitely higher than ours. In fact, Scripture tells us that our acts of righteousness are like filthy rags to God (Isaiah 64:6). I don't believe we can appropriately compare our own standard of good and righteousness to God's. His nature and character are described throughout the Scriptures. Scripture tells us that He is omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, infinite, eternal, incomprehensible, unequaled, holy, perfect, almighty, absolute, and unchanging. Scripture also tells us that God is truth, good, love, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, and forgiving. We, on the other hand, are not omniscient, omnipotent, omnipresent, infinite, eternal, incomprehensible, unequaled, holy, perfect, almighty, absolute, and unchanging. Not to mention the fact that we are not always true, good, loving, gracious, merciful, long-suffering, and forgiving. We simply cannot compare our own standards of good to His.
I am about to engage in some serious studying.
First subject: Hell.
The conventional idea of Hell is a place of eternal punishment for those who don't accept Jesus.
This is something that I find hard to accept. I'm interested in people's opinions and texts from the Bible...or suggestions on what I should study
You had opportunity to address the several Scriptures I quoted. You didn't/couldn't.
Matthew 10:28
English Standard Version (ESV)
28 And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather fear him who can destroy both soul and body in hell.[a]
ok, i dont fear men who can kill my body, (who cannot kill my soul), but i shoud fear Him who can destroy both my soul and body in hell (gehenna).
ok....i submit, i dont fear men, but i do fear God, because He clearly states here what He can do....for all you immortal soulists out there, you have a lot of explaining to do....because you are denying Gods ability to do what He says He can do. but again im sure your just thinking that God is just making idle threats here, and is just throwing out words for no apparent reason...why He could have said anything.........right...got ya.
HELL
by R.C. Sproul
We have often heard statements such as War is hell or I went through hell. These expressions are, of course, not taken literally. Rather, they reflect our tendency to use the word hell as a descriptive term for the most ghastly human experience possible. Yet no human experience in this world is actually comparable to hell. If we try to imagine the worst of all possible suffering in the here and now we have not yet stretched our imaginations to reach the dreadful reality of hell.
Hell is trivialized when it is used as a common curse word. To use the word lightly may be a halfhearted human attempt to take the concept lightly or to treat it in an amusing way. We tend to joke about things most frightening to us in a futile effort to declaw and defang them, reducing their threatening power.
There is no biblical concept more grim or terror-invoking than the idea of hell. It is so unpopular with us that few would give credence to it at all except that it comes to us from the teaching of Christ Himself.
Almost all the biblical teaching about hell comes from the lips of Jesus. It is this doctrine, perhaps more than any other, that strains even the Christians loyalty to the teaching of Christ. Modern Christians have pushed the limits of minimizing hell in an effort to sidestep or soften Jesus own teaching. The Bible describes hell as a place of outer darkness, a lake of fire, a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth, a place of eternal separation from the blessings of God, a prison, a place of torment where the worm doesnt turn or die. These graphic images of eternal punishment provoke the question, should we take these descriptions literally or are they merely symbols?
I suspect they are symbols, but I find no relief in that. We must not think of them as being merely symbols. It is probable that the sinner in hell would prefer a literal lake of fire as his eternal abode to the reality of hell represented in the lake of fire image. If these images are indeed symbols, then we must conclude that the reality is worse than the symbol suggests. The function of symbols is to point beyond themselves to a higher or more intense state of actuality than the symbol itself can contain. That Jesus used the most awful symbols imaginable to describe hell is no comfort to those who see them simply as symbols.
A breath of relief is usually heard when someone declares, Hell is a symbol for separation from God. To be separated from God for eternity is no great threat to the impenitent person. The ungodly want nothing more than to be separated from God. Their problem in hell will not be separation from God, it will be the presence of God that will torment them. In hell, God will be present in the fullness of His divine wrath. He will be there to exercise His just punishment of the damned. They will know Him as an all-consuming fire.
No matter how we analyze the concept of hell it often sounds to us as a place of cruel and unusual punishment. If, however, we can take any comfort in the concept of hell, we can take it in the full assurance that there will be no cruelty there. It is impossible for God to be cruel. Cruelty involves inflicting a punishment that is more severe or harsh than the crime. Cruelty in this sense is unjust. God is incapable of inflicting an unjust punishment. The Judge of all the earth will surely do what is right. No innocent person will ever suffer at His hand.
Perhaps the most frightening aspect of hell is its eternality. People can endure the greatest agony if they know it will ultimately stop. In hell there is no such hope. The Bible clearly teaches that the punishment is eternal. The same word is used for both eternal life and eternal death. Punishment implies pain. Mere annihilation, which some have lobbied for, involves no pain. Jonathan Edwards, in preaching on Revelation 6:15-16 said, Wicked men will hereafter earnestly wish to be turned to nothing and forever cease to be that they may escape the wrath of God. (John H. Gerstner, Jonathan Edwards on Heaven and Hell [Orlando: Ligonier Ministries, 1991], 75.)
Hell, then, is an eternity before the righteous, ever-burning wrath of God, a suffering torment from which there is no escape and no relief. Understanding this is crucial to our drive to appreciate the work of Christ and to preach His gospel.
Summary
Biblical passages for reflection: Matthew 8:11-12, Mark 9:42-48, Luke 16:19-31, Jude 1:3-13, Revelation 20:11-15.
- The suffering of hell is beyond any experience of misery found in this world.
- Hell is clearly included in the teaching of Jesus.
- If the biblical descriptions of hell are symbols, then the reality will be worse than the symbols.
- Hell is the presence of God in His wrath and judgment.
- There is no cruelty in hell. Hell will be a place of perfect justice.
- Hell is eternal. There is no escape through either repentance or annihilation.
Link: R.C. Sproul on Hell
RC Sproul is right on target with this one I believe.
Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.
What is left if there's no body or soul?[/quote
well i heard in another post, with an eternal hell view say that after the wicked are thrown into the lake of fire, and are thus turned into ashes, that we are still conscience enough to continue suffering, so maybe its the ashes without a soul? dont ask me.....im only telling you what i was toldso basically its there ashes then that are weeping and gnashing there teeth.....do ashes have teeth?
a·bom·i·na·tion
   /əˌbɒməˈneɪ ʃən/ http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/IPA_pron_key.htmlShow Spelled[uh-bom-uh-ney-shuh n] http://dictionary.reference.com/help/luna/Spell_pron_key.htmlShow IPA
noun 1. anything abominable; anything greatly disliked or abhorred.
2. intense aversion or loathing; detestation: He regarded lying with abomination.
3. a vile, shameful, or detestable action, condition, habit, etc.: Spitting in public is an abomination.
by the way, while im here giving definitions.....let me throw this one out and let yall think about it for a minute....and actually understand what the definition of abomination means....so were all on the same page....ok be back....
I suppose my statement could be changed to represent the opposite, but then my statement would no longer be true, would it?Your statement can be changed to represent the opposite:
The simple reason is that the Annihilation Preachers are mistaken about what the bible says.
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