Do you believe God is a jealous God?

[rainbojo]

I would love to hear your thoughts on this.

 

[JoabAnias]

Nope, He is perfect.

Its us who have faulty emotions like jelousy, spite, hate etc.

Its insanity.

 

[Pro vita]

Do I believe that God is a jealous God? False gods and the idolatry associated with them detract from the actual message of God Himself, so He wants no other Gods before Him.
The First Commandment:
"I am the LORD your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, from the house of slavery. You shall have no other gods before Me..."
Exodus 34:
13 You shall tear down their altars, break their pillars, and cut down their sacred poles

14 (for you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God).

 

[Rois]

No, I don't believe that. Jealous in what way were you wondering (like an example)?

 

[benedictaoo]

the bible says he is a jealous God, he will not have us worship other gods with out getting offended.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Scripture even goes so far as to say the the Lord's name is Jealous.

But I think then necessitates that we really understand jealous in some terms other than our modern usage of the word "jealous". God doesn't have the spurned boyfriend emotion, or unpicked cheerleader emotion we call jealousy.

I think it also necessitates that we understand that the prohibitions of the Lord--are meant for our truest, deepest, authentic freedom...and aren't just random things we're not allowed to do.

 

[sweetMelody]

Love is never Jealous. God is Love

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Love is never Jealous. God is Love

It is true-absolutely true- that God is love, but it is also true that Scripture tells us that the Lord is jealous multiple times. Therefore, it must be our understanding of what it means that God is jealous which is lacking.

This is one of those things--we can't just accept the parts we like and jive with our personal feelings and beliefs. As Catholics we have to take the whole thing, even the parts which prick our personal likings.

 

[Anoetos]

Yes, God is a jealous God.

He will not share his glory with another.

The relationship of the church to God is described as a marriage. God is a jealous husband.

We have been taught to view jealousy as wicked or weak. It is not necessarily.

Husbands SHOULD be jealous for their wives.

 

[Anoetos]

A further thought:

A man and a woman may be able to arrive at the level of trust necessary for there to be no real, overt jealousy, but let one of them begin showing undue attention to another and see what happens.

With us it is similar and yet different. The heart IS deceitful above all things, we ARE weak and prone to attraction to "other gods", we really are not capable of fidelity without grace.

But our Lord's jealousy is not born of fear as ours often is. Rather it is the justly stern admonition of a Spouse that we have no other loves.

 

[JoabAnias]

Has anyone ever noticed that our own infidelity causes human jealousy?

Its a symptom of sin. Its an inward self centering.

Its a blasphemy to equate human jealousy to God.

God cannot sin. We do.

If we are faithful ourselves and properly attached to God then we are properly detached from the world.

Sure if someone betrays us, it hurts but it doesn't make us jealous because we are always with God and that always orders the good of the other.

JEALOUSY AND ENVY
by St. Cyprian

The seven capital sins:
1. Pride
2. Covetousness
3. Lust
4. Anger
5. Gluttony
6. Envy
7. Sloth
http://www.vatican.va/archive/compendium_ccc/documents/archive_2005_compendium-ccc_en.html

CCC 1866-1867
Vices are the opposite of virtues. They are perverse habits which darken the conscience and incline one to evil. The vices can be linked to the seven, so-called, capital sins which are: pride, avarice, envy, anger, lust, gluttony, and sloth or acedia.

CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Jealousy

Catholic Answers search

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8 The tenth commandment requires that envy be banished from the human heart. When the prophet Nathan wanted to spur King David to repentance, he told him the story
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9 Envy is a capital sin. It refers to the sadness at the sight of another's goods and the immoderate desire to acquire them for oneself, even unjustly. When it wishes
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0 Envy represents a form of sadness and therefore a refusal of charity; the baptized person should struggle against it by exercising good will. Envy often comes from
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3 Envy is sadness at the sight of another's goods and the immoderate desire to have them for oneself. It is a capital sin
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4 The baptized person combats envy through good-will, humility, and abandonment to the providence of God
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7 Injustice, excessive economic or social inequalities, envy, distrust, and pride raging among men and nations constantly threaten peace and cause wars. Everything
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1 The economy of law and grace turns men's hearts away from avarice and envy. It initiates them into desire for the Sovereign Good; it instructs them in the desires
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account of Abel's murder by his brother Cain, Scripture reveals the presence of anger and envy in man, consequences of original sin, from the beginning of human history.
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parents lurks a seductive voice, opposed to God, which makes them fall into death out of envy. Scripture and the Church's Tradition see in this being a fallen angel,
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death, and he does not delight in the death of the living. It was through the devil's envy that death entered the world" (Wis 1:13; 2:24)
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[Anoetos]

So the Bible blasphemes?

And the Lord spoke all these words: I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. Thou shalt not have strange gods before me. Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or in the earth beneath, nor of those things that are in the waters under the earth. Thou shalt not adore them, nor serve them: I am the Lord thy God, mighty, jealous, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me: Ex. 20:1-5 Douai Rheims

 

[D'Ann]

I believe the Bible does say that God is a jealous God... but we need to understand the context of that word being used...

 

[Anoetos]

Right, and the point is that while the only word which may actually fit what the Bible is describing is the word "Jealousy", that there may be a distinction to be drawn between human jealousy and divine jealousy does not obviate the use of the expression.

And even if it is an anthropomorphism it remains that saying that "Its a blasphemy to equate human jealousy to God" makes Moses a blasphemer since this is more or less what he does; he uses a human emotion to describe God's dealings with His people.

I think we have a tendency to get too caught up in philosophy sometimes, definitely if we get to the point where we're saying the Bible is wrong, or not quite accurate, or blasphemous.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Has anyone ever noticed that our own infidelity causes human jealousy?

Its a symptom of sin. Its an inward self centering.

Its a blasphemy to equate human jealousy to God.

God cannot sin. We do.

If we are faithful ourselves and properly attached to God then we are properly detached from the world.

Sure if someone betrays us, it hurts but it doesn't make us jealous because we are always with God and that always orders the good of the other.

]

Exodus 34:14 For you shall worship no other god, because the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God.

Exodus 20: 5 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the inequity of parents to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me

Duet. 5:9 You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, punishing children for the inequity of parents down to the third and fourth generation of those who reject me.

Nahum 1:2 A jealous and avenging God is the Lord, the Lord is avenging and wrathful; the Lord takes vengeance on advesaries and rages against His enemies.


It is true that at the same time God is love, is mercy, is many other attributes--which means the we have a limited view and understanding of God...but as with all things we cannot just cling to what we like about our Faith--we must cling to it all- even the parts we don't understand or make us uneasy

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Joab--also jealousy is NOT the same thing as envy. They are different things. Envy seeks to strip others of what they have, jealous just wants what others have for ourselves--but without also wishing that the other not posses such a thing.

Jealousy is not a capital sin. Jealousy can in fact be a very good and positive thing. I read about a Saint and I want the holiness they have. That is a good thing. It becomes disordered when I want it and wish them not to have it. Jealousy seeks to possess, envy seeks to strip.

 

[rainbojo]

Very interesting comments, thank you. I ask this question because it is as if God does not permit something (that should be very natural/normal) to happen in my life. It is as if God is calling me to Him.

 

[Globalnomad]

Mmmmmmm... No, Shannon, that's not the sense of the word. That would be just ambition, longing.

Jealousy is when you own someone or something, or (rightly) want him/her/it for yourself, but he/she/it is being pulled away from you, and you feel bad about that. In that sense, and despite the ordinary modern connotation, it is not necessarily a sinful feeling - as Anoetos said, it is a rightful feeling in the context of marriage, for example. So it is not blasphemy to attribute it to God. But it is definitely antropomorphism.

The use of this word is perfectly clear in the particular context of the Old Testament. At the time, it was usual for people to adore a number of gods, praying now to one, tomorrow to the other, and this was felt to be quite OK. The God of Abraham and Moses was unique in that He did not permit His people to pray to any other god, ever (First Commandment). That's the sense of this repeated warning "I am a jealous God" - a reminder that the People of God had a monogamous husband now, no longer a polyandrous lover.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

All things which happen are allowed by God....and all are beneficial. But we have to really dig deep to understand the purpose of the things which happen. Are they to show us hurts and wounds and defects of ourselves or of those around us, so we can see where healing is needed? Are they to highlight an area of sin again and again so we can see where we are to draw closer to the Lord by overcoming that area of sin? Are they to teach us trust and to relinquish self? There are so many, many possibilities.

We are made for communion--our destiny is heaven, and heaven is total and complete union with the Trinity and with all others who are also united to the Trinity. God is always calling us and beckoning to us to grow deeper in union with him, not just in the future but here and now. God wants us for Himself, He wants all of us --total union.

 

[ShannonMcCatholic]

Mmmmmmm... No, Shannon, that's not the sense of the word. That would be just ambition, longing.

.

It is certainly not the complete sense of the word, no--you are absolutely right!...I only wrote to one aspect to illustrate that jealousy is not the same as envy. We can desire what others have--but not desire the ruin of others. We cannot slip over into resentment. That resentment is what fuels envy.

Joab's post talked all about envy being sinful--which it is. But envy and jealousy are different things.



Found this, and it seemed useful (in regards to envy-not into the jealousy of God):

The danger signs of envy

By Cardinal George Pell
15 March, 2009
Christians are commanded to love their neighbours, not to envy them, not to covet their neighbour’s wife or possessions.

All of us are envious at some time or other. I would love to have possessed a singing voice like Pavarotti’s; I envied him for his great gift.

As a child I envied those with a lot of cricketing ability.

Imagine the thrill of being able to bat like Adam Gilchrist, to slaughter the bowling and change the direction of a match. How we missed him Warne and McGrath in the Test team. Even New Zealand now gives us a run for our money!

These two examples of envy are harmless enough, not sinful in any sense let alone as candidates to be listed as deadly sins.

Envy comes from the heart and is quite different from admiring the capacities and accomplishments of others. Envy starts to go wrong when we resent the success of others and worsens when we develop immoderate ambitions to achieve what we envy and strive to obtain this unjustly.

Envy is not quite the same as jealousy because envy resents what someone else has, while jealousy is more immediately self-centred, fearing that someone else might take what is ours, e.g. promotion at work, the affections of a friend.

Envy can become so strong that we actually hate the people we envy, even when they have done nothing contrary to our interests.

Even the longest journeys begin with a few short steps and it is always a danger sign when we rejoice in the misfortunes of others, especially the small misfortunes of our friends or relatives.

To rejoice in the serious misfortune of a friend is perverse and the Christian commandment to love our enemies should deter us from rejoicing in their personal sufferings. Naturally we are entitled to rejoice when a bad cause is halted or reversed.

Another danger sign that envy is bubbling up in our hearts is a reluctance to praise others or to thank them for their contributions.

We are in deeper trouble when we refuse to praise others, seem in fact unable to do so, while we descend even further down the slippery slope of envy when we criticise those who are commended, simply because they are commended. Envy drives us to find some fault and defect in every situation.

As we grow old we can be tempted to envy young people their youth, vitality and optimism and not even realise this.

The envy is masked by seizing on the imperfections of the young and criticising them.

Young people are imperfect, but they are generally what their elders have made of them. As a wise old Irish-Australian mother used to say “what is in the cat comes out in the kitten”.

Envious people are not kind, often pitiless. Kind people are pleased when others do well.

+ George Cardinal Pell

Archbishop of Sydney
The Catholic Weekly - Sydney