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Do you believe fornication should be illegal?

Aussie Pete

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Looking for a discussion here, where Christians share their views on the matter. Some things to note are.
1. How will this benefit society?
2. Is this something God would want?
3. What risks will be eliminated?
Trying to enforce Christian morality on unbelievers is pointless. Even if the law was passed, how would it be enforced? There are many benefits and for sure God is against fornication. Single parenthood is the cause of most poverty in the USA. Children need a father and a mother if at all possible. The world is on the broad path that leads to destruction. Making one unenforceable law is not going to change that.
 
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-=H=-

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Looking for a discussion here, where Christians share their views on the matter. Some things to note are.
1. How will this benefit society?
2. Is this something God would want?
3. What risks will be eliminated?
We are not under law the law taught us we are sinners needing redemption by Jesus.

Jesus said watch out for the yeast of the pharisees and Sadducees, which is law based religion from the Old Testament.

Jesus came to fulfill the law, and the entire law can be summed up as love God, love neighbor.

When the woman who was caught in adultery, did Jesus say stone her as the law required? No he said he who is without sin cast the first stone.

The Bible says in the New Testament everything is permissible not everything is constructive, everything is permissible not everything is beneficial.

The definition of the word sin is “not God’s best most loving for us”. Fornication is sin, and Jesus showed the state of our hearts that even lust or thoughts are equal to sin and condemn us to hell.

Have you ever stolen, lied, cheated or lusted after someone in your heart or mind? Of course you have. It makes you a lying thieving adulterer at heart deserving the penalty of death.

Jesus also says not to judge, and says first to take the log out of your own eye so you can see clearly to take the speck out of another’s eye.

Jesus died for all of our sins, past present and future. It is in the perfect tense meaning it is complete and finished just as Jesus said.

A person who believes in law does not know the love of the father nor the life and teachings of Jesus.

The issue is not fornication, the issues are of the heart and human condition of sin and propensity to do unloving things. That are not loving to God, neighbors and self.
 
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MarkSB

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Trying to enforce Christian morality on unbelievers is pointless.

This pretty much sums it up. The bible is pretty clear that we are not to force Christian morality on unbelievers... yet the tendency of some Christians to try to use political power and government to try to force their religion upon people continues throughout history. I find it odd that they do not recognize this attempt to control as a sin in itself... not to mention the use of worldly power, which was not the way of Christ or the apostles.

There are, of course, some items of morality that require intervention and enforcement from the government - murder, rape, theft, traffic violations - basically items which impact the liberty and safety of other individuals within the community, and do it against the will of the other individuals. Consensual sex is a mutual act, so does not fall into that category.
 
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The Liturgist

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I think we should make solicitation of fornication and of sodomy and also public displays of homosexuality and other forms of sexual deviance illegal, using obscenity laws as the basis, since this would be easy to enforce, and dramatically reduce the number of one-night stands and also the grotesque exhibitionism on the part of so-called “sexual minorities.” Furthermore, the law should be revised so that if a heterosexual couple in a long term relationship does fornicate, they should be regarded as married through default, unless the act was non-consensual. This would dramatically reduce the amount of fornication and the problems that it caused.

Throw in a ban on contraceptives, including condoms, and public health campaigns warning of the dangers of venereal disease, and severe penalties for spouses who engage in domestic violence or adultery, and financial incentives for married couples to remain together and to have at least one child every three years, with a ten year pause between clusters of four, so as to allow an enjoyment of those children born thus far, and a restoration of the average age of matrimony to its historic range, in the early twenties, with churches providing matchmaking services, and we would have a recipe for the restoration of the nuclear family.

Additional measures should be taken to restore the extended family. The war on families must be stopped. The penalties for fathers who abandon the mother of their children should be incredibly severe; sixty years hard labor I think would do it. And for those who engaging in the pandering of prostitution, ninety years hard labor.

This is an important reason to think very carefully before making sex between consenting single people illegal. What does enforcement look like?

The technology exists to monitor sound within a typical house by projecting a laser beam at exposed windows, and data collected in this way I would argue falls under the plain sight doctrine and can thus be obtained by the security services without a search warrant. Using drones and automated analysis, which could then be escalated to human supervisors, it could be possible to secure reasonable suspicion and begin continual surveillance and execute search warrants. Bars could be paid a monthly stipend for allowing microphones to be installed.

Since our current police departments lack the ability for this, and given the recent failings at the FBI and NSA, I propose that surveillance of civilians and the enforcement of laws such as this be the responsibility of a Special Security Service which could enforce a new Moral and Social Code as well as matters of state security (which I would argue fornication and sodomy actually are, given the historic use of these by intelligence services as a means of recruiting and controlling agents, either through romantic liasons or compromat).
 
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The Liturgist

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I genuinely can't tell. @The Liturgist , did you fool me?

You asked how such restrictions could be enforced, and I answered truthfully with respect to technology and also how to implement it from a bureaucratic perspective.

What I failed to mention, and this was a genuine oversight, and not an attempt at satire, is that I would not want to see such an Orwellian enforcement apparatus in place even in support of legislation I would otherwise be inclined to support.

But it is positively technologically possible. Indeed it can be done even without laser-based sensors on houses, which can be defeated by retreating to windowless soundproofed rooms (be wary of ventilation ducts as they can be even easier to bug), through the use or a vast network of informants, which was the approach taken by the DDR.
 
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PloverWing

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What I failed to mention, and this was a genuine oversight, and not an attempt at satire, is that I would not want to see such an Orwellian enforcement apparatus in place even in support of legislation I would otherwise be inclined to support.

Thanks for the clarification!

I did think of Orwell as I read your post. It also occurred to me that in the world you sketched out, in which contraception is illegal, the awareness of government agents constantly eavesdropping on my bedroom would probably serve as a quite effective contraceptive...
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Solicitation of fornication and of sodomy is prostitution and already illegal and should remain so.

Human trafficking is a problem where prostitution was made legal. Supply is short of the demand,
and those who run such things could care less where and how they get the supply.
 
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The Liturgist

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Thanks for the clarification!

I did think of Orwell as I read your post. It also occurred to me that in the world you sketched out, in which contraception is illegal, the awareness of government agents constantly eavesdropping on my bedroom would probably serve as a quite effective contraceptive...

Not when you consider the criminal penalties for illegal reproductive evasion.
 
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The Liturgist

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Solicitation of fornication and of sodomy is prostitution and already illegal and should remain so.

Unfortunately that is true only if money is being sought. It is perfectly legal in the US at present to try to get someone to fornicate with you as long as a cash payment is not involved and as long as you do not engage in lewd conduct. I recall a recent case where some pervert was arrested in a public park for asking without solicitation if a woman enjoyed a particular act of sexual misconduct. It was a misdemeanor if I recall, but nonetheless it was quite creepy, especially considering he was unaware that she was not alone and her husband was present. I will remark he was lucky the husband called the police rather than pursuing an alternate course of action.
 
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JimR-OCDS

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Unfortunately that is true only if money is being sought. It is perfectly legal in the US at present to try to get someone to fornicate with you as long as a cash payment is not involved and as long as you do not engage in lewd conduct. I recall a recent case where some pervert was arrested in a public park for asking without solicitation if a woman enjoyed a particular act of sexual misconduct. It was a misdemeanor if I recall, but nonetheless it was quite creepy, especially considering he was unaware that she was not alone and her husband was present. I will remark he was lucky the husband called the police rather than pursuing an alternate course of action.
Definition:

so·lic·i·ta·tion
[səˌlisəˈtāSHən]

NOUN
  1. the act of asking for or trying to obtain something from someone:



Never heard of solicitation of sex being done for free.
 
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Arcangl86

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Definition:

so·lic·i·ta·tion
[səˌlisəˈtāSHən]

NOUN
  1. the act of asking for or trying to obtain something from someone:


Never heard of solicitation of sex being done for free.
Have you never been to a single's bar?
 
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Hazelelponi

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Yes or No.

Looking for a discussion here, where Christians share their views on the matter. Some things to note are.
1. How will this benefit society?
2. Is this something God would want?
3. What risks will be eliminated?

No

We don't need more ways to invade privacy and more ways to spend money.

I'd see fewer laws, not more. Let's enforce what we have and go from there.
 
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seeking.IAM

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I'd see fewer laws, not more. Let's enforce what we have and go from there.
Amen! The U.S. has the 6th highest incarceration rate in the world of 531 per 100,000 and the largest jail population in the world. We don't need to lock more people up for what even the birds and bees do freely. I understand that we, as Christians, are to lead moral lives, be good disciples, and keep the commandments but can we not leave that with us and God without turning this country into a theocracy enforcing the laws of whatever the dominant religion tends to be at the time? Does the value of living in a free country not mean anything to us? It is a slippery slope from illegal fornication and banned books to wearing hijabs and shira law. :unitedstates:
 
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The Liturgist

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Amen! The U.S. has the 6th highest incarceration rate in the world of 531 per 100,000 and the largest jail population in the world. We don't need to lock more people up for what even the birds and bees do freely. I understand that we, as Christians, are to lead moral lives, be good disciples, and keep the commandments but can we not leave that with us and God without turning this country into a theocracy enforcing the laws of whatever the dominant religion tends to be at the time? Does the value of living in a free country not mean anything to us? It is a slippery slope from illegal fornication and banned books to wearing hijabs and shira law. :unitedstates:

I fear you are missing the point. By my guess, there are easily fifty million adulterers and other sexual perverts in the United States; considering our total population of of something over 331 million. Why settle for an incarceration rate of only 0.7% when you can have a full 15%, sentenced to a lifetime of hard labour, of service to the state and the people? We could, with such a labor force, build infrastructure and public works on a scale unseen since the Roman Empire. Liberated from the workforce, we could quintuple the size of our military forces every three years, ensuring complete national security, while those citizens who abstained from sexual immorality would live in the very gardens of a technological and social utopia.

IMG_6359.png

All of this can be ours if we simply start taking sexual deviance seriously.
 
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seeking.IAM

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Why settle for an incarceration rate of only 0.7% when you can have a full 15%, sentenced to a lifetime of hard labour, of service to the state and the people?

Mom always said, "Idle hands are the devil's workshop." I reckon if we keep them fornicators busy at hard labor they'll be too tired to be thinkin' about fornicatin' anymore. You may be onto something.

Of course, there is a lot of fornicatin' going on in prisons, so we might just be sentencing them to utopia. There is that.
 
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