do you agree with this Statement of Faith?

[MagusAlbertus]

do you agree with this Statement of Faith? we require it in our group in order to join. It's also a test to see how many here are just inherently argumentative.

This document written is The Consecrated's Statement of Faith. In it contains the things which we believe as Christians and followers of Jesus Christ the only Son of God.
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1. We believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and that it was fully inspired by God and is written without error in its original state. It is the basis of all truth and the final authority in all things.
   
   
2. There is only one God, eternal in existence. The Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit. They are also called by many as The Trinity. The Trinity is Three but yet is One. The Trinity is both singular and plural at the same time. Each One of the Trinity has His own unique functionality, each is fully God, yet there is only One.
   
   
3. Jesus is the only way to the Father and only through Him is eternal life. He was sent to the earth to die for all mankind that whoever should believe on Him as his Savior would not perish in eternal damnation but have everlasting life. Jesus did not stay dead but rose on the Third day and is now seated at the right hand of the Father in Heaven and makes intercession for us.
   
   
4. Man was created in the image and likeness of God. Man sinned and became separated from God hence the need for salvation. Once saved we are now drafted in as sons and daughters of God and our sins are forgiven. Now we must live a Godly life according to His Word which is the Bible.
   
   
5. We believe in the resurrection of Gods people known as the Rapture. All those that believe in Jesus dead or alive will be taken swiftly to heaven with God at some point in the future.
   
   
6. We believe that Hell and Heaven are real places and you will go to one or the other depending on if you believe that Jesus died for you and you receive Him as your personal Savior.

 

[MagusAlbertus]

what something more/else is it?

 

[LewisWildermuth]

We believe that the Bible is the inspired Word of God and that it was fully inspired by God and is written without error in its original state. It is the basis of all truth and the final authority in all things.

There is a problem with this... We have no idea what the "original state" of the Bible was. The version we use was not compiled until about 300CE. There are many old fragments that either omit or have extra verses than those we are familiar with.

There is also a problem with "basis of all truth" and "final authority in all things", the Bible is a spiritual guide and does not lay out the basis of math or science or language or fashon or many other aspects of our life. I would rewrite this as "It is the basis of spiritual truth and the final authority in spiritual matters."

 

[lucaspa]

do you agree with this Statement of Faith? we require it in our group in order to join.

As you say, it is a denominational statement. It is not a universal statement of Christianity.

This document written is The Consecrated's Statement of Faith. In it contains the things which we believe as Christians and followers of Jesus Christ the only Son of God.

It appears that this statement would be more accurate if it said "contains the things which we believe as a particular denomination of Christians". This is not what it takes to be a Christian and follower of Jesus Christ.

I don't agree with parts of it. But then again, I am not joining your "group".

 

[Bushido216]

Do I believe the Bible is literal in all parts? No. Do I believe that it is totally inerrant? Of course not. I'm sure that someone mistranslated here or there and that some people, though extremely wise, weren't correct on all things, and were included for their overall wisdom.

 

[ThePhoenix]

what something more/else is it?

Two and Six. I have trouble believing that Ghandi is in hell, just as I have trouble believing that God would create hell.

 

[lucaspa]

Two and Six. I have trouble believing that Ghandi is in hell, just as I have trouble believing that God would create hell.

Notice that David, Solomon, Ruth, Adam, Noah, and all the OT testament figures are in Hell because they violated Three and Six. That seems a little contradictory, doesn't it?

 

[ThePhoenix]

Notice that David, Solomon, Ruth, Adam, Noah, and all the OT testament figures are in Hell because they violated Three and Six. That seems a little contradictory, doesn't it?

Another good point.

 

[MagusAlbertus]

we're a non-denominational/inter-denominational group, if you disagree with 3, then you disagree with the basis of Christianity. We've had well more than 100 people apply, all of whom accepted the SOF without question, ONLY one person has been rejected.. it was a Mormon who would not re-affirm agreement with 4.

if you disagree with 6 then you disagree with the words of Jesus himself.

Gandi was not as great *or Christ like* a man as the movie makes him out to be, just because Marten Luther King did great things does not mean he was saved, what made him saved was being accepting of Grace through Jesus. Gandi had his opportunities and rejected it, instead calling for a unification of faiths, anti-Christian to say the least. Works can not save us, only grace through humble acceptance.

Problem with it or not, Jesus describes people that will go there, so if you reject it's existence you reject the words of Jesus.

The “great people of the old testament all went to hell” thing? don’t you understand the difference between the old and new covenants? as it's not ~2000 years ago so info on the old covenant does not need to be stated.

 

[Bushido216]

I'm sorry, but I forgot the verse where Jesus says that no matter who does a good thing, no matter in who's name, they are actually doing it in Jesus's name.

Was Ghandi really that far separated from the Father and the Son as we think?

 

[MagusAlbertus]

I'm sorry, but I forgot the verse where Jesus says that no matter who does a good thing, no matter in who's name, they are actually doing it in Jesus's name.

Was Ghandi really that far separated from the Father and the Son as we think?

are you teling me that all have not sined and fallen short of the Glory of God, and are in need of grace from the aceptance of Jesus?

 

[Karl - Liberal Backslider]

Bushido - I think that was Aslan rather than Jesus.

But the point remains - I address it on my website, which I've posted a dozen times - http://freespace.virgin.net/karl_and.gnome/believe.htm

[size=+1]Salvation only for Christians[/size]

This comes from an image of God as unable to let anyone into heaven unless they sign on the doctrinal dotted line. But it is not what the Bible says! Firstly, it is clear that God is looking for reasons to save, not to condemn, any given person:

2 Peter 3:9

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. He is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

How can it be otherwise, if God loves people? Jesus’ statement ‘I am the way, the truth and the life. No-one comes to the Father except through me’ is often quoted in this regard. But we must look at this in the context of John’s gospel (where the saying occurs), which has, at its opening:

John 1:9

The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.

Lights every man - Not just those who believe a particular set of propositions. But wherever folk are enlightened to what is right and good, it is this Light who enlightens them. And when they follow that enlightenment, they follow that Light.

John goes on to talk about salvation and judgement in these terms:

John 3:19-21

This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of the light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God.

Yes, access to God is through this Person, but we do not have to know His name. Jesus' claims of exclucivisity are correct; He and He alone is the reconciler between God and Man. But it is a far cry from that to saying that anyone who doesn't 'become a Christian' and sign on the correct dotted line is doomed to Hell. It is our attitude to the Light, to Grace and Truth, to Right and Wrong that matters. This is not salvation by works; it is not by doing the right things that God accepts us, but rather by our attitude - do we turn away from, or receive, the Light?

If Gandhi's not in heaven, God will need a very good excuse.

 

[Larry]

I generally agree with the statement of faith in the OP.

...It's also a test to see how many here are just inherently argumentative.

Although, comments like this do not add anything positive to the discourse.

 

[Bushido216]

are you teling me that all have not sined and fallen short of the Glory of God, and are in need of grace from the aceptance of Jesus?

Where do you get that from what I posted?

 

[MagusAlbertus]

I generally agree with the statement of faith in the OP.






Although, comments like this do not add anything positive to the discourse.

you're right,

 

[lucaspa]

we're a non-denominational/inter-denominational group, if you disagree with 3, then you disagree with the basis of Christianity. We've had well more than 100 people apply, all of whom accepted the SOF without question, ONLY one person has been rejected.. it was a Mormon who would not re-affirm agreement with 4.

if you disagree with 6 then you disagree with the words of Jesus himself.

Well, we can see the argumentative mode start here. Awful defensive about the position, aren't you?

#3 is not the basis of Christianity. It is not in either the Nicean or Apostle's Creeds. You didn't give a quote from Jesus for #6. Even if you do, there are other quotes that imply the opposite. Which means you are using selective data. Karl has some very good points, and quotes from Jesus. Perhaps, Magus, you would address these.

What I see from #3 and #6 is that you as humans are taking on the ability to decide judgement. But the Bible is explicit that judgement, and forgiveness, belongs to God..

Gandi was not as great *or Christ like* a man as the movie makes him out to be, ... Gandi had his opportunities and rejected it, instead calling for a unification of faiths, anti-Christian to say the least. Works can not save us, only grace through humble acceptance.

Gandhi was about as humble as they come. And no one has doubted his spiritual side. But here again you are not listening to opinions, but being argumentative.

The “great people of the old testament all went to hell” thing? don’t you understand the difference between the old and new covenants? as it's not ~2000 years ago so info on the old covenant does not need to be stated.

According to the SOF, there is no "old covenant". The language does not state any exceptions, does it? Are you saying there are exceptions?

 

[MagusAlbertus]

Either you are intentionally ignorant or you argue for the sake of argument, you can’t be rebuked with the bible because you reject everything that you disagree with, so you’re welcome to ‘argue’ about whatever you want you’ve got nothing to stand on.

I give people of good fiath with diferent interpetations of the scripture the benifit of the doubt in their Dogma, but when it comes to the romans 1 like people i've got no sympathy.

 

[lucaspa]

Either you are intentionally ignorant or you argue for the sake of argument,

Once again, when I use the Bible the response I get is ad hominem.

you can’t be rebuked with the bible because you reject everything that you disagree with,

Quoting the Bible that is contrary to your position is "reject everything" that I disagree with? I think this is your position. You have decided what the Bible says and won't even let the Bible tell you differently.

I give people of good fiath with diferent interpetations of the scripture the benifit of the doubt in their Dogma,

We've never seen that. So far, what "benefit of the doubt" have you given me concerning interpretation of Genesis 1-11?

but when it comes to the romans 1 like people i've got no sympathy.

We know. Your homophobia is very visible. You do remember that Christ associated with everyone, don't you? And commanded us to do likewise. "If you do not do this to the least of these your brothers, you do it not to me."

 

[wblastyn]

I give people of good fiath with diferent interpetations of the scripture the benifit of the doubt in their Dogma, but when it comes to the romans 1 like people i've got no sympathy.

Don't use the Bible to justify your hatred of people different than you.

 

[lucaspa]

Don't use the Bible to justify your hatred of people different than you.

Nicely put. Sadly, it has been done all too often in the past.