Do you agree that Christians should obey all 613 commandments?

[from scratch]

Adhering to one law, the law of love, is not the same as "throwing out" the old law...it is fullfilling it. Big difference. I don't need the law that says not to murder because thanks to God's Spirit living within me I can simply know that wrongly taking the life of another is sin. Pre-cross all had to be written down as there was no Indwelling Spirit, and it was still woefully inadequate. If I keep the law of love I will follow the 10 commandments intent even if I have never heard a one of them.

Good answer.

 

[Isolation]

If you love God with all your heart, mind and soul you will automatically love your neighbor as your self. This covers all the 'donts' that God says not to do and instead you do all the 'dos'. There are a lot of unwritten laws as well, it just takes understanding to know how to act in certain situations. In the end if you love your neighbor as your self you won't break any of the commandments, but rather you will fulfill them all by your obedience to God. It is said atonement is made by the Lord your God, but fear of the Lord is to turn away from evil. You're atoned for, but you should still fear the Lord in as much that you won't participate in doing sin. So "should i keep the law to be saved?" no you're saved by his atonement but you should still fear the Lord and turn from evil. I am not atoned for by keeping the law, I am atoned for by his gospel 1 john 5. But even John the baptist said 'produce fruits worthy of repentance' so in this way you fulfill the law. So if you participate in sin after being sealed then you have problems. Book of James pretty much covers all of this too

 

[from scratch]

There wouldn't be law in our hearts without first having it on paper. I don't hear magical voices that say don't murder, i read it on paper and my heart says yes, i will obey. I never justified any one by any law. I merely say we are taught to keep some of it like "thou shall not kill", others say we should throw it out. What do you think?

Oh hogwash. Where did you learn it was wrong to hit your brother or sister? Probably the same place you learned it wasn't OK to lie or fix your britches of course after you got outta diapers.

 

[from scratch]

What about eating anything you want?

YouTube - Pork

You never ate a mud pie?

 

[11822]

Oh hogwash. Where did you learn it was wrong to hit your brother or sister? Probably the same place you learned it wasn't OK to lie or fix your britches of course after you got outta diapers.

Thank you brother. Please, Lets stick with the law according to Jesus.


Mathew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

 

[from scratch]

God ties "love" and "keep" together.....


Exodus 20:6
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

Deuteronomy 5:10
And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me and keep my commandments.

So did Yeshua..

John 14:15
If ye love me, keep my commandments.

John 14:21
He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

So do the apostles....

1 John 2:5
But whoso keepeth his word, in him verily is the love of God perfected: hereby know we that we are in him.

1 John 5:2
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.

1 John 5:3
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.

Now that is consistency...!!!!!

My question is what are those commandments for the Christian? I read John 15:10 and I John 3:23 which seem to comfused the issue of what commandments we're obligated to obey as Christians.

 

[11822]

You never ate a mud pie?

 

[Isolation]

You never ate a mud pie?

 

[from scratch]

I think reading Jesus words are better than leaning on my own understanding. Jesus teaches about murder and adultery.


Mathew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.
21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire.


27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery

some say that Jesus was talking about the law. I say oh really. I consider the words but I say to be a change or different from what you have heard. I take that as a new commandment.

 

[from scratch]

Admittedly, there's been a time or two I've considered stoning my youngun, but we're not living in that theocracy at this time, so she is still with us and about to make me a grandma. (Yea!!! We survived!!) That's where that difference lies, the government the Israelites were under. So I agree, the civil laws are different today because the government is different. But the objective to the avoidance of the stoning remains the same - be obedient to parents, honor them, do not commit adultery, do not lead others to worship false gods, do not commit murder (all capital crimes).
There is no "new" law. It's still what it always was. It's just that the sacrificial system came to its fulness in Jesus' once-for-all atonement. There is no need to continually return to the altar with fears of unknown sins or of unforgiveable sins, there's no need to wonder if the sacrifice will be acceptable. It was, it is, it will be.

The other side of the law camp represented here don't believe that as a whole.

 

[11822]

My question is what are those commandments for the Christian? I read John 15:10 and I John 3:23 which seem to comfused the issue of what commandments we're obligated to obey as Christians.

The new testament covers the law either directly by Jesus or falls under "love God and your neighbor". Adultery and murder are covered by Jesus. Jesus said not to worry about clothes and food but seek the Kingdom first which covers coveting. Using Gods name in vein goes without saying. Stealing and bearing false witness are covered under love your neighbor and in other parts of the NT.

 

[11822]

Actually i have ate mud pie. Its real Good

 

[from scratch]

Perhaps you would care to explain to me how ANYTHING I have said in this thread represents disagreeing with Jesus or leaning on my own understanding?

Oh thats simple. You don't agree and therefore are wrong and unbelieving.

 

[11822]

some say that Jesus was talking about the law. I say oh really. I consider the words but I say to be a change or different from what you have heard. I take that as a new commandment.

Yes but Jesus presents the law in a way which doesnt void the original meaning unless done so by Him directly. Adultery is not void, its made more clear, even looking at a women is adultery. Jesus didn't void the adultery law.

 

[Isolation]

i believe Christ fulfilled atonement according to the sacrificial law

its why i believe he took sin at the jordan

 

[from scratch]

Thank you brother. Please, Lets stick with the law according to Jesus.


Mathew 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I say unto you, That except your righteousness shall exceed the righteousness of the scribes and Pharisees, ye shall in no case enter into the kingdom of heaven.

21 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not kill; and whosoever shall kill shall be in danger of the judgment: 22 But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire. 23 Therefore if thou bring thy gift to the altar, and there rememberest that thy brother hath ought against thee; 24 Leave there thy gift before the altar, and go thy way; first be reconciled to thy brother, and then come and offer thy gift. 25 Agree with thine adversary quickly, whiles thou art in the way with him; lest at any time the adversary deliver thee to the judge, and the judge deliver thee to the officer, and thou be cast into prison. 26 Verily I say unto thee, Thou shalt by no means come out thence, till thou hast paid the uttermost farthing.

27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: 28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart. 29 And if thy right eye offend thee, pluck it out, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 30 And if thy right hand offend thee, cut it off, and cast it from thee: for it is profitable for thee that one of thy members should perish, and not that thy whole body should be cast into hell. 31 It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: 32 But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths: 34 But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne: 35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King. 36 Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black. 37 But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.

38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: 39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. 41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain. 42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.

43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. 44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; 45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. 46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? 47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? 48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect.

Certianly. And Jesus didn't say keep the 10 Cs in the above reference. Read very closely. It is seen that way because the word commandment(s) is used.

 

[11822]

Oh thats simple. You don't agree and therefore are wrong and unbelieving.

You do know that you seem to be unfairly labeling me as an accuser don't you?

 

[SummaScriptura]

Yes but Jesus presents the law in a way which doesnt void the original meaning unless done so by Him directly. Adultery is not void, its made more clear, even looking at a women is adultery. Jesus didn't void the adultery law.

Can you tell us which of these 613 laws Jesus did not directly void? Here's the list again to get you started...

613 Laws of the Old Testament

 

[Isolation]

Can you tell us which of these 613 laws Jesus did not void? Here's the list again to get you started...

613 Laws of the Old Testament

Most of them are void LOL.

We need a new list that isn't outdated and useless, also this is what the Pharisees did.
They made a list.

 

[from scratch]

MMM! Don't get me into to much troubble. Sure looks better than the neighbor girl's version. Bet it tastes better too. Whereever did you find white mud though?