Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

[Speedwell]

And yet it is the Bible and Christianity that continues to be hated more. We would do well to ask ourselves why.

How do you come to that conclusion? How is the hatred you speak of shown?

 

[amariselle]

How do you come to that conclusion? How is the hatred you speak of shown?

In many different ways. In calling the Bible rubbish, a book of fairy tales, in calling Christians unintelligent and even downright stupid for believing it etc.

Look around these forums, you will not have to look very far to see what I mean.

And yet, many of the same people who would treat the Bible and the Christian faith with such contempt and derision, have never bothered even question the Quran. What is going on with much of Islam is far more concerning, and yet it is the Bible that is picked apart, while Islam continues to be touted as the "Religion of peace." Why is that?

 

[Archaeopteryx]

... The Bible, when used in the public sphere, is used only as tradition, not so with the Quran. And yet it is the Bible and Christianity that continues to be hated more. We would do well to ask ourselves why.

That isn't true at all. The push to include Creationism in the science classroom is led by people who invoke the Bible. Parents who withhold vital medical treatment from their children invoke the Bible. Politicians eager to obtain the electorate's approval invoke the Bible. Those who oppose LGBTI rights most vocally invoke the Bible. They are not invoking it for tradition, but because they believe that it should shape actions in the real world.

 

[Robert Palase]

In many different ways. In calling the Bible rubbish, a book of fairy tales, in calling Christians unintelligent and even downright stupid for believing it etc.

Christians keep telling everyone that the Bible is true but they have produced nothing to show that it is, it's a book of stories that have no basis in reality, what else would you expect? do you think the Koran is a book of fairy tales or is the Koran true?

And yet, many of the same people who would treat the Bible and the Christian faith with such contempt and derision, have never bothered even question the Quran. What is going on with much of Islam is far more concerning, and yet it is the Bible that is picked apart, while Islam continues to be touted as the "Religion of peace." Why is that?

The US is predominantly Christian so what good would it do to criticise the Koran? who would care? would you?

People who say they have been abducted by aliens are treated with contempt because all they have is anecdotal claims just like religious people, all they both do is talk a good story, 'look around at the trees' is not evidence of a God, all it's evidence for is trees.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

In many different ways. In calling the Bible rubbish, a book of fairy tales, in calling Christians unintelligent and even downright stupid for believing it etc.

Look around these forums, you will not have to look very far to see what I mean.

And yet, many of the same people who would treat the Bible and the Christian faith with such contempt and derision, have never bothered even question the Quran. What is going on with much of Islam is far more concerning, and yet it is the Bible that is picked apart, while Islam continues to be touted as the "Religion of peace." Why is that?

It's no mystery why that is. I've already given you the reason. In most western countries, it's not the Quran that people appeal to when they want to justify bad policies. It's the Bible. I don't live in a country where Islam is dominant the religion, and neither do you. But if we did, and if bad policies were being made by invoking the Quran, then it would be no surprise that the focus would shift to that book rather than the Bible.

 

[amariselle]

That isn't true at all. The push to include Creationism in the science classroom is led by people who invoke the Bible. Parents who withhold vital medical treatment from their children invoke the Bible. Politicians eager to obtain the electorate's approval invoke the Bible. Those who oppose LGBTI rights most vocally invoke the Bible. They are not invoking it for tradition, but because they believe that it should shape actions in the real world.

Of course our faith should shape our actions. Why wouldn't it? Beliefs have consequences. (For everyone by the way, including Atheists)

If you think there is a Christian nation left on this earth, you are mistaken. Christians should take a stand for what they believe, but I do not agree with forcing our faith on others, but rather sharing it in love. So regarding the bullying you sometimes see from "Christians" I do not believe that is Christian at all. Jesus never forced anyone to believe in Him, He gave them a choice.

Those Christians who desire to overrun the public sector and force their beliefs on the world, seriously worry me. Many, if not most of them are caught up in Kingdom Now/Dominionism theology and the New Apostolic Reformation, which is far from Biblical. I've actually posted about this on these forums (and many other Christians have as well) and the more I've learned about it the more concerned I've become. This is NOT true Christianity.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Of course our faith should shape our actions. Why wouldn't it? Beliefs have consequences. (For everyone by the way, including Atheists)

Then you understand why a humanist atheist would care about religion, and particularly about the religion that dominates in the culture she is part of.

If you think there is a Christian nation left on this earth, you are mistaken. Christians should take a stand for what they believe, but I do not agree with forcing our faith on others, but rather sharing it in love. So regarding the bullying you sometimes see from "Christians" I do not believe that is Christian at all. Jesus never forced anyone to believe in Him, He gave them a choice.

Those Christians who desire to overrun the public sector and force their beliefs on the world, seriously worry me. Many, if not most of them are caught up in Kingdom Now/Dominionism theology and the New Apostolic Reformation, which is far from Biblical. I've actually posted about this on these forums (and many other Christians have as well) and the more I've learned about it the more concerned I've become. This is NOT true Christianity.

So it seems you do understand why we are concerned. "True Christianity" or not, those who subscribe to this ideology have powerful influence over policy, which means their ideas ultimately affect us all, whether we like it or not.

 

[amariselle]

It's no mystery why that is. I've already given you the reason. In most western countries, it's not the Quran that people appeal to when they want to justify bad policies. It's the Bible. I don't live in a country where Islam is dominant the religion, and neither do you. But if we did, and if bad policies were being made by invoking the Quran, then it would be no surprise that the focus would shift to that book rather than the Bible.

Actually, even when it has happened in western countries (and it continues to more and more) no one seems to question it at all. We are simply told repeatedly "Islam is a religion of peace," and no one wants to say any different.

And even when atrocities are done in other countries, we should still speak up. Just because it doesn't happen where we live, doesn't mean it isn't extremely important.

Yet our governments continue to say nothing, and they likewise try to silence their people. There is a huge problem in Islam, and people need to admit it. Militant Islamists are responsible for the vast majority of violence in the world today. They are the ones beheading little children and raping women as part of their religion and in service to Allah. But people in our countries stay silent.

 

[amariselle]

Then you understand why a humanist atheist would care about religion, and particularly about the religion that dominates in the culture she is part of.

So it seems you do understand why we are concerned. "True Christianity" or not, those who subscribe to this ideology have powerful influence over policy, which means their ideas ultimately affect us all, whether we like it or not.

Yes, I am concerned with ANY belief system that is FORCED on people. Which is why you will never see or hear of me doing so.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Actually, even when it has happened in western countries (and it continues to more and more) no one seems to question it at all. We are simply told repeatedly "Islam is a religion of peace," and no one wants to say any different.

And even when atrocities are done in other countries, we should still speak up. Just because it doesn't happen where we live, doesn't mean it isn't extremely important.

Yet our governments continue to say nothing, and they likewise try to silence their people. There is a huge problem in Islam, and people need to admit it. Militant Islamists are responsible for the vast majority of violence in the world today. They are the ones beheading little children and raping women as part of their religion and in service to Allah. But people in our countries stay silent.

If people are silent about the atrocities being committed in the name of Islam in Muslim-majority countries, then how have you even heard of it? The fact is that people aren't silent about it at all.

 

[amariselle]

If people are silent about the atrocities being committed in the name of Islam in Muslim-majority countries, then how have you even heard of it? The fact is that people aren't silent about it at all.

The fact is our governments remain largely silent about it, they don't want to admit there is a real problem. They are far more concerned with being politically correct. And with the Internet today, pretty much everyone has the ability to learn about what goes on around the world, that's how we hear about it. Militant Islamists proudly release videos of the atrocities they commit. They are hiding nothing, they are proud of what they're doing.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

The fact is our governments remain largely silent about it, they don't want to admit there is a real problem.

Largely silent? Have you not been following the news? They have formed a coalition to fight ISIS militants. How does that constitute silence?

 

[amariselle]

Christians keep telling everyone that the Bible is true but they have produced nothing to show that it is, it's a book of stories that have no basis in reality, what else would you expect? do you think the Koran is a book of fairy tales or is the Koran true?The US is predominantly Christian so what good would it do to criticise the Koran? who would care? would you?

I do care about the Quran, yes, because I care about the thousands of people, including little children who have been killed because of it. I think others should care too. Honour killings in the name of Allah have been done in western countries as well, but even if they hadn't, obviously we should care about the terrible things that happen to people, even if it is in another country.

How is what is happening with Islam not a concern for us? It very much is.

People who say they have been abducted by aliens are treated with contempt because all they have is anecdotal claims just like religious people, all they both do is talk a good story, 'look around at the trees' is not evidence of a God, all it's evidence for is trees.

If that's how you see it, why do you keep posting on this forum? It seems you have no further questions, so why spend your time talking with so many people who are only worthy of contempt. Surely there are much better things to do?

 

[amariselle]

Largely silent? Have you not been following the news? They have formed a coalition to fight ISIS militants. How does that constitute silence?

Have you listened to them dance around the question of Islam? They never want to talk about it directly. Instead they persist in labeling it a "religion of peace".

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Have you listened to them dance around the question of Islam? They never want to talk about it directly. Instead they persist in labeling it a "religion of peace".

No religion is a religion of peace.

 

[amariselle]

No religion is a religion of peace.

Not when it's forced on someone. I agree with you.

 

[Robert Palase]

If that's how you see it, why do you keep posting on this forum? It seems you have no further questions, so why spend your time talking with so many people who are only worthy of contempt. Surely there are much better things to do?

I'm here because religions dictate the actions of religious people, if people believe one ridiculous thing they will more than likely believe other ridiculous things and those beliefs affect everyone around them.

Christian Sunday schools are like Muslim madrassas, they are places where children are indoctrinated into believing the unbelievable, if religions were true why on earth would children need to be indoctrinated?

 

[amariselle]

I'm here because religions dictate the actions of religious people, if people believe one ridiculous thing they will more than likely believe other ridiculous things and those beliefs affect everyone around them.

All beliefs dictate actions, even unbelief does that.

But I understand, you are here because you think Christianity is "ridiculous" and you want to convince Christians of this. Fair enough, although that is not actually permitted on these forums.

Thank you for your honest answer though.

Christian Sunday schools are like Muslim madrassas, they are places where children are indoctrinated into believing the unbelievable, if religions were true why on earth would children need to be indoctrinated?

I attended Sunday school and I am in no way indoctrinated. It takes far more than an hour once a week to indoctrinate someone. To truly indoctrinate you need to cut someone off from the rest of the world entirely. You may see this with some Muslims in countries where Islam is enforced by law or you may see this in certain cults like the FLDS, but Christians who attend churches around towns live and work in the same world as everyone else and many actually attend secular schools (I did) and have many many friends and family who aren't Christian. True indoctrination simply cannot work in settings like this, because true indoctrination means removing any possible viewpoint that may conflict with your own.

As this forum demonstrates, many Christians are more than willing to engage in conversation with people who believe differently than they do. If it was all about indoctrination, why would non-Christians even be welcome here? They ARE welcome, and I and many other Christians are more than happy to talk about our faith and the questions others may have.

We are not isolated, and we do not isolate ourselves. We are here, we live in this world and we are constantly confronted with accusations and assumptions. We do not hide away.

 

[Robert Palase]

True indoctrination simply cannot work in settings like this, because true indoctrination means removing any possible viewpoint that may conflict with your own.

Is it possible that you could be wrong about your God?

We are not isolated, and we do not isolate ourselves. We are here, we live in this world and we are constantly confronted with accusations and assumptions. We do not hide away.

Hide away? Do you never wonder why you are only able to answer those accusations with nothing more than 'Faith'? according to you everything in the Bible is oh so true but all you have is 'Faith'.
Someone told you there is a God, they gave you a Bible and left you to create your God from your own imagination.

 

[TLK Valentine]

I'm not "not-picking" at all. The claim was that Christianity is a mental illness.

I suspect the claim was more that Christianity was like a mental illness... not that I agree with it.

If it is, it has to be a contagious one. Therefore that is what I was addressing.

Something you claimed was impossible... a claim I disproved.

Mental illness can be spread from person to person -- which is pretty much the textbook definition of "contagious."

The example you gave of a shared mental illness does not explain the many people who have become Christians.

Granted, the analogy is not a perfect one, nor was it meant to be. My only purpose was to show that delusional or psychotic behavior.

Instead, if Christianity is a mental illness it would have to be a kind of mental illness that you can get simply by reading or hearing something or from just being around other Christians.

Is it not a goal of Christians to show others the way to Christ and to "make disciples of all nations" (Matthew 28:19)?

Simply sitting in the same room with someone with the flu may not make you sick... sitting in the same room with someone with the flu who goes out of their way to cough and sneeze on you at every opportunity, however...

Mental illness is not passed around like the flu. That is what I was saying.

It doesn't have to spread "like the flu..." to be contagious -- it just has to spread.