Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

[Robert Palase]

We are convinced so we believe.

That's what people have trouble with, what on earth convinced you when there is no evidence for any Gods?

 

[amariselle]

I use "attack" in the general sense of disagreeing with someone else.

Well, perhaps that's part of the issue. A disagreement isn't necessarily an "attack" unless the language and mannerisms indicate such an intent. We can disagree and still be respectful.

If those followers are not deluded, how do you explain that billions of people fervently follow (much more so than most Christians) a belief that you would consider to be wrong.

I explain it by saying they made a choice, just as I have, and just as you have.

By the way, the position of being deluded is not necessarily the result of mental illness.

Perhaps not, but the earlier conversation was indeed addressing the claim that Christianity is a mental illness. That is why I answered accordingly.

 

[rjs330]

That's what people have trouble with, what on earth convinced you when there is no evidence for any Gods?

I apparently forced myself to believe since there isn't any evidence.[emoji1]

No seriously I've had a personal encounter with the Spirit of God who drew me to him and then had a personal encounter with Jesus Christ. He is very real to me. And as I read and studied the bible I came to understand it more and more. There are always more amazing truths in there All the time. Personal experience and a personal,relationship.

And as far as evidence goes, nature is all the evidence you need. You just need to open your eyes to it. I really think often that those who claim there is No evidence for God are really not looking for evidence for God. They are looking for anything they can find to try and prove there isn't one. But you can't prove that either.

I think The real reason people don't want to see God is because then they would have to admit that they are sinners and need a saviour. And people just do not want to believe that. They look for every excuse not to believe.



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[rjs330]

Most of the major holy texts could be described in similar manner.

Actually not. Most of the other major holy texts were written over much shorter time spans and we're written by one person.

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[TLK Valentine]

Thank you for the links. I will deal with the main points discussed in these articles and explain why Christianity does not fit the requirements of a shared psychiatric disorder like folie à deux.

I never said it did. You said you never heard of a contagious mental illness... now you have.

Actually, I did. How do you know otherwise?

See above. You never heard of shared psychosis... now you have.

 

[SteveB28]

That's not what you claimed. But thanks for clarifying. We are convinced so we believe.

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It's exactly what I said: that we cannot choose what we believe.

We believe on the basis of being convinced.....but 'convinced' does not necessarily equate with 'true'

 

[amariselle]

I never said it did. You said you never heard of a contagious mental illness... now you have.

Actually, what I said was I had never heard of a contagious mental illness that is passed on like a cold or the flu. And I still haven't.

See above. You never heard of shared psychosis... now you have.

No, I never said I hadn't heard of a "shared psychosis" I said I had never heard of a contagious mental illness that is communicable from one person to another, spread like a cold.

Mental illness is not a communicable disease.

 

[SteveB28]

Actually not. Most of the other major holy texts were written over much shorter time spans and we're written by one person.

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Not true. Do you think Homer was the only author of the Greek myths. Do you not think there have been a myriad of authors who have revised both the Q'ran and the Hadith?

And why is that significant? The fact remains that billions of people believe in a text that you would say doesn't match reality. Doesn't that make them deluded?

 

[TLK Valentine]

Actually, what I said was I had never heard of a contagious mental illness that is passed on like a cold or the flu. And I still haven't.



No, I never said I hadn't heard of a "shared psychosis" I said I had never heard of a contagious mental illness that is communicable from one person to another, spread like a cold.

Mental illness is not a communicable disease.

Well, now you're just nit-picking. Mental illness can be spread. I've shown what I intended to show; do with it what you will.

 

[Robert Palase]

No seriously I've had a personal encounter with the Spirit of God who drew me to him and then had a personal encounter with Jesus Christ. He is very real to me. And as I read and studied the bible I came to understand it more and more. There are always more amazing truths in there All the time. Personal experience and a personal, relationship.

Are you sure you didn't just have a feeling and imagined the feeling was caused by a God? we all get those feeling because of a lot of things during our lives [music, children, beauty, awe inspiring scenery] but we don't put them down to the supernatural, all religious believers in all religions get those feelings and do exactly as you did, they know their God in the same way you know your God. [that's assuming it's possible to know something that doesn't exist]

 

[Robert Palase]

Actually, what I said was I had never heard of a contagious mental illness that is passed on like a cold or the flu. And I still haven't.

What about "mass hysteria"?

In sociology and psychology, mass hysteria (also known as collective hysteria, group hysteria, or collective obsessional behavior) is a phenomenon that transmits collective delusions of threats, whether real or imaginary, through a population in society as a result of rumors and fear.

A common sign of mass hysteria occurs when a group of people believe they are suffering from a similar disease or ailment, sometimes referred to as mass psychogenic illness or epidemic hysteria.[

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Yes, I would say your impression is wrong, though I do understand it is a very difficult thing to explain. I have simply been trying my best to put it into words. I have in fact struggled with my faith a great deal (although I do admit, many others have far more difficult circumstances in life than I do). For example, I have an anxiety disorder, it is chronic, it is something I must deal with and manage with medication every single day. But, through it all I have learned to trust God more and He has always been there for me. There is so much I could never have done if it wasn't for Him.

I'm sorry to hear about your struggles with anxiety. I understand how difficult it can be, having struggled with OCD myself many years ago. I hope you are currently receiving treatment for it and that it is at least manageable.

The Christian faith is deeply personal and relational. It is hard outside of that relationship to understand what a person is talking about. Also, we need the Holy Spirit, and we need to trust Him for guidance and discernment. I've actually become all the more aware of and concerned about what is really going on in the world as a result. People matter more to me and I care more than I would otherwise.

I understand that the Christian faith is deeply personal, but I would argue that the same holds true for all religions. They are all deeply personal, which is perhaps one reason why there is no polite way to question someone's deeply cherished religious beliefs. Nonetheless, if we care about whether such beliefs are true, then we must do just that.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

If the Bible is just another book, why not leave it alone? Why does it matter? There is far more to it than that.

Because millions insist that we live according to its dictates, or more precisely, according to their interpretation of its dictates. We care about the Bible because those vying for power claim to be inspired by it, and they so often invoke it to gain illegitimate political credibility.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

I explain it by saying they made a choice, just as I have, and just as you have.

I'm not sure what you mean by "choice" here? Presumably you didn't choose to be born into a culture where the dominant religion is Christianity, just as they never chose to be born into a culture where it wasn't. (Having studied psychology and sociology, you should appreciate why this point is relevant). But even if we put that aside, in what sense did you "choose" to believe that Christianity is true? Could you choose tomorrow to believe in the doctrines of Islam? The day after, could you choose to believe in some other religion? I don't know about you, but I can't wilfully manufacture a sincere belief like that. I need to be convinced. So I don't "choose" to not believe in Christianity. I am simply not convinced by it.

 

[amariselle]

Well, now you're just nit-picking. Mental illness can be spread. I've shown what I intended to show; do with it what you will.

I'm not "not-picking" at all. The claim was that Christianity is a mental illness. If it is, it has to be a contagious one. Therefore that is what I was addressing. The example you gave of a shared mental illness does not explain the many people who have become Christians. Instead, if Christianity is a mental illness it would have to be a kind of mental illness that you can get simply by reading or hearing something or from just being around other Christians. Mental illness is not passed around like the flu. That is what I was saying.

 

[amariselle]

I'm not sure what you mean by "choice" here? Presumably you didn't choose to be born into a culture where the dominant religion is Christianity, just as they never chose to be born into a culture where it wasn't. (Having studied psychology and sociology, you should appreciate why this point is relevant). But even if we put that aside, in what sense did you "choose" to believe that Christianity is true? Could you choose tomorrow to believe in the doctrines of Islam? The day after, could you choose to believe in some other religion? I don't know about you, but I can't wilfully manufacture a sincere belief like that. I need to be convinced. So I don't "choose" to not believe in Christianity. I am simply not convinced by it.

Which is why you need to search it out for yourself. People need to do that, I have never said otherwise.

 

[amariselle]

What about "mass hysteria"?

In sociology and psychology, mass hysteria (also known as collective hysteria, group hysteria, or collective obsessional behavior) is a phenomenon that transmits collective delusions of threats, whether real or imaginary, through a population in society as a result of rumors and fear.

A common sign of mass hysteria occurs when a group of people believe they are suffering from a similar disease or ailment, sometimes referred to as mass psychogenic illness or epidemic hysteria.[

Is mass hysteria ever a positive thing? Does it ever add beauty and confidence to a person's life? Does it ever make people more loving and forgiving? Does it ever bring peace and joy and hope?

I don't think so.

 

[amariselle]

Because millions insist that we live according to its dictates, or more precisely, according to their interpretation of its dictates. We care about the Bible because those vying for power claim to be inspired by it, and they so often invoke it to gain illegitimate political credibility.

Do you likewise care about the Quran? The book that holds the religion thousands of militant Muslims are killing people for not believing? I would be far more concerned with what is coming out of much of Islam, in terms of its violence, than with what the Bible tells us we must do.

A book that tells us to "kill the infidels" may be a book far more worth questioning. In my opinion anyway. And yet it doesn't seem to be happening. Instead, for some reason, everyone is being told to believe Islam is the religion of peace.

The Bible is still more hated than the Quran. That is quite telling.

 

[Archaeopteryx]

Do you likewise care about the Quran?

Yes, and for the same reason. However, in most Western countries, politicians don't invoke the Quran when taking a stance on important matters.

 

[amariselle]

Yes, and for the same reason. However, in most Western countries, politicians don't invoke the Quran when taking a stance on important matters.

They don't do that in Canada or the U.S. that's for sure. If the Bible is used at all, it is a formality, nothing more. Canada and the United States are not Christian countries. I would argue the same for the rest of the western world.

The book being upheld by many in deciding even who lives and dies today is the Quran. (And yes, there have been honour killings even in the western world because of it) The Bible, when used in the public sphere, is used only as tradition, not so with the Quran. And yet it is the Bible and Christianity that continues to be hated more. We would do well to ask ourselves why.