Do you agree or disagree with this statement?

[amariselle]

What is obvious to anyone who reads what you have to say is that you simply believe what you believe because you want to believe it and for no other reason, you try to rationalise it to yourself and others but you fail at every turn.

Your opinion.

It may be obvious to you, but your claim that it is obvious to "everyone" is quite questionable. If such is the case, why do these forums even exist? Why are there still Christian churches all over the world? Why, if "everyone" who reads statements like mine simply believes that we just believe what we want because we want to, is the Christian faith a real and vibrant faith, based (as it should be) on the Bible? Why does it continue to grow, especially in times of harshest persecution? Why do people become Christians as adults, even quite late in life?

I highly doubt you can adequately explain true Christian faith so simply and so dismissively. Though, if you can convince yourself that this is all there is to a Christian's faith, then you will not need to look any farther. It's an easy answer that allows a person to bypass all questions that surround Christianity and permits that person to dismiss the beliefs of thousands of people throughout history as "nonsense."

Your choice.

 

[amariselle]

You say, 'I do not just depend on "faith", but we still don't see any evidence being produced.

I have not "produced" the "evidence." It is the word of God, the Bible.

 

[rjs330]

If you have evidence sufficient to warrant belief in the Bible's claims, then what need have you for faith? And what evidence do you have that the Bible's claims are true?

The evidence is our personal relationship we have with our Lord and Saviour. The evidence we have is the Holy Spirit within us. We felt the draw of the Father and believed. We also,have faith. Faith is the substance of things hoped for the evidence of things not seen. We heard the message and felt the draw and we believed. We did not see God with our eyes, but we felt God in our hearts. We did not touch God with our hands but he touched our hearts. We see his glory and majesty and might in the world around us.

Your pink unicorn analogy is goofy because even you don't believe in the pink unicorn. If you told me there was a pink,unicorn in my yard and really believed it I would then have to make a choice whether or not I believed in the pink unicorn also. So I CAN choose to believe without any physical evidence. I probably won't, but that doesn't mean I can't.

But we believers have more than someone just saying we need God. We felt the draw and the conviction of the Holy spirit in our own way. And now we have that personal relationship with the all mighty that is our evidence.

Sent from my VS980 4G using Tapatalk

 

[ScottA]

All religions suffer from the Santa syndrome, which is:
If you stop reinforcing a belief then children will eventually stop believing it.

That is an interesting question, but a better question would be: Why do parents tell their children fairy tales?

 

[Abraxos]

That is an interesting question, but a better question would be: Why do parents tell their children fairy tales?

It's a parent and kid thing.

But some fools take it a little too seriously, hence the term 'Santa Syndrome.' Santa syndrome is a psychological syndrome in which affected individuals to ultimately accept atheism. Most individuals discover or are told that the supernatural aspects associated with the Christian tradition of Santa Claus, such as him riding a sleigh led by reindeer and giving all good children around the world Christmas presents, are legend and are simply practiced in order to enrich the experience of celebrating the holy day. However, individuals with Santa syndrome are often abnormally bitter about this finding and as a result, move further to reject the existence of God.

It's a rather known character trait among athiests.

 

[ScottA]

It's a parent and kid thing.

But some fools take it a little too seriously, hence the term 'Santa Syndrome.' Santa syndrome is a psychological syndrome in which affected individuals to ultimately accept atheism. Most individuals discover or are told that the supernatural aspects associated with the Christian tradition of Santa Claus, such as him riding a sleigh led by reindeer and giving all good children around the world Christmas presents, are legend and are simply practiced in order to enrich the experience of celebrating the holy day. However, individuals with Santa syndrome are often abnormally bitter about this finding and as a result, move further to reject the existence of God.

It's a rather known character trait among athiests.

Agreed.

I suspect, most atheists never warmed up to the whole Santa story as children, so were quick to reject it, and developed a pattern of rejection to the more serious things of life they don't know are any different. That is called dysfunction.

Normal behavior would be to meet joyful tales with joy. But the real shame of not doing so, is that fairy tales are told for a reason - and are an essential part of healthy development and maturity: Without the kind and caring introduction of life through games and fantasies - life is brutal. But gentle introductions are meant as preparation: No intro = no preparation = no participation - and they end up missing out.

 

[bhsmte]

That is an interesting question, but a better question would be: Why do parents tell their children fairy tales?

For the same reasons parents teach their kids certain religious beliefs. It was how they were brought up and it is tradition.

Old habits die hard.

 

[amariselle]

For the same reasons parents teach their kids certain religious beliefs. It was how they were brought up and it is tradition.

Old habits die hard.

Well, very few, if any, come to believe in Santa Claus later in life. However, many do come to believe in Jesus. Clearly the two are not the same.

 

[Veera Chase]

That is an interesting question, but a better question would be: Why do parents tell their children fairy tales?

Because they in turn were been made to believe the fairy tales, all religions are self sustaining, why do you think religions make a bee line for children? because children are more likely to believe the stories and carry them through to adulthood, the only adults who are likely to believe are the damaged and the gullible.

 

[Abraxos]

Well, very few, if any, come to believe in Santa Claus later in life. However, many do come to believe in Jesus. Clearly the two are not the same.

In the atheists imagination they do. Like I said, it's a psychological problem. Pray for them.

 

[amariselle]

Because they in turn were been made to believe the fairy tales, all religions are self sustaining, why do you think religions make a bee line for children?

I have heard this line of reasoning over and over again. It doesn't hold true in the lives of many, if not most, Christians. I think it can be quite convenient for non-Christians to believe that only those who were "made to believe" as children remain or become Christians. If non-Christians looked around and actually talked with Christians personally, that explanation would soon fall short.

Speaking for myself, I was not "made to believe" anything. My parents made it clear to me and my sister and my brother that we would not be forced to believe in God or to attend church, but rather, that it had to be a choice we made for ourselves. (My sister is not a Christian) The idea that all Christian children are brainwashed or indoctrinated is simply false.

because children are more likely to believe the stories and carry them through to adulthood, the only adults who are likely to believe are the damaged and the gullible.

Wow, that's a pretty condescending and judgmental statement. How do you know this is true? I'm pretty sure there are several members on these forums (and elsewhere of course) who became Christians later in life who would strongly insists otherwise.

 

[Veera Chase]

Wow, that's a pretty condescending and judgmental statement. How do you know this is true? I'm pretty sure there are several members on these forums (and elsewhere of course) who became Christians later in life who would strongly insists otherwise.

All you need do is look around the world, the poor, badly managed and illiterate countries are the most religious, that's where do you find the most damaged and gullible people in those countries, where are the most religious people to be found in the US? in the well educated states or the poor badly educated states?

 

[amariselle]

All you need do is look around the world, the poor, badly managed and illiterate countries are the most religious, where do you find the most damaged and gullible people? in those countries, where are the most religious people to be found in the US? in the well educated states or the poor badly educated states?

You can find true Christians everywhere. Though I won't deny that when life is easy, people often forget how much they need God.

However, to put such negative and even hurtful labels on people is far from helpful or kind. I'm a Christian, and I do not believe that makes me more "gullible" than you. And you cannot honestly say otherwise, because you don't know me, nor do you know all of the other people you are trying to label.

Do you not think wealthy people can be "damaged"? Do you think all poor people are miserable? Far from it. Some of the most discontent and ungrateful people you will find are the extremely wealthy. They have everything money can buy, and they still aren't happy. Why do so many celebrities struggle with addiction? Why have so many died prematurely from drug related deaths? And the wealthy are often highly educated, that hasn't saved them from brokenness or from becoming "damaged."

Such broad generalizations often prove inaccurate when you actually look at the reality of a person's life.

 

[ScottA]

For the same reasons parents teach their kids certain religious beliefs. It was how they were brought up and it is tradition.

Old habits die hard.

That may be the perception of someone in the waning times of a well intended tradition, but not the reason it began (in the beginning).

Parents talk kindly and joyfully, and even use baby talk, for the same reason: because, it's kind, and joyful, and loving, and they are talking to a babe (which is the parable, if you can receive it).

 

[ScottA]

Because they in turn were been made to believe the fairy tales, all religions are self sustaining, why do you think religions make a bee line for children? because children are more likely to believe the stories and carry them through to adulthood, the only adults who are likely to believe are the damaged and the gullible.

Same answer as #874.

 

[Veera Chase]

You can find true Christians everywhere. Though I won't deny that when life is easy, people often forget how much they need God.
However, to put such negative and even hurtful labels on people is far from helpful or kind. I'm a Christian, and I do not believe that makes me more "gullible" than you. And you cannot honestly say otherwise, because you don't know me, nor do you know all of the other people you are trying to label.
Do you not think wealthy people can be "damaged"? Do you think all poor people are miserable? Far from it. Some of the most discontent and ungrateful people you will find are the extremely wealthy. They have everything money can buy, and they still aren't happy. Why do so many celebrities struggle with addiction? Why have so many died prematurely from drug related deaths? And the wealthy are often highly educated, that hasn't saved them from brokenness or from becoming "damaged."
Such broad generalizations often prove inaccurate when you actually look at the reality of a person's life.

What does it take for a person to believe something for no reason other than they want to believe? religious people say they have faith and hope, that alone smacks of desperation, they have been told they are sick and that their belief in the imagined saviour is the cure for their sickness, if they could snap out of their delusion they would see they are not sick and there is no saviour.

 

[Veera Chase]

That may be the perception of someone in the waning times of a well intended tradition, but not the reason it began (in the beginning).

It began because people wanted to believe just as people today want to believe, why else would anyone want to hold on to something that is only in their minds and not really there? people convince themselves it's true because they want it to be true.

Parents talk kindly and joyfully, and even use baby talk, for the same reason: because, it's kind, and joyful, and loving, and they are talking to a babe (which is the parable, if you can receive it).

That's the very definition of a delusion, people talk themselves into believing something because it makes them feel good, it's like a drug, once the mind gets used to the drug the person is unable to do without it, religious people can not even imagine what it must be like to be without their religion, the very thought to most of them is unthinkable.

 

[Kylie]

I disagree. (Not that God would ever allow us to lose all knowledge of Him, or His word in the first place, because He wouldn't) However, in the hypothetical situation mentioned, if we ever did, He would reveal Himself to us again.

Of course, you are just guessing at that, aren't you?

Do you think God will have to send Jesus again to die for us again?

 

[Kylie]

I put that question to the mods and if you are caught reposting information to other websites without permission from the author then it IS actionable. Beyond that, it's a pretty disgusting thing to do, since most of the posts quoted by the blithering idiots on the site are taken out of context. And no, that isn't a flame because they are, in fact, idiots.

I suppose that's true, but someone could cut 'n' paste from here and not put their names on the other site. How would they know which user did it?

 

[Kylie]

My answer stands. People naturally change between doing good and doing evil even in a single hour. It's our nature; no spirit needed.

So when you said that "Christians change mostly because of the spirit led moral imperative (post 104)", you were wrong? Are you now saying that Christians change because it's in their nature?