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Do we humans disprove evolution?

klutedavid

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Do you really have to think about the full on movements of your legs and feet as you walk, or your arms and hands as you do a task like making a cup of coffee which you have probably done hundreds of times before?

I'll be honest, at this point, you seem to be arguing solely for the sake of arguing.
I am never in a home for more than a year, so I cannot develop habits. making a coffee is something I need to think about.

If you can go through the day on autopilot, you are truly spoilt.

At my age just walking is something that I have to concentrate on. walking with a straight back, watching for rises in the footpath. carefully stepping down or up gutters. I think everyone in my age group concentrates when walking. You must be a young person.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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I am never in a home for more than a year, so I cannot develop habits. making a coffee is something I need to think about.

If you can go through the day on autopilot, you are truly spoilt.

At my age just walking is something that I have to concentrate on. walking with a straight back, watching for rises in the footpath. carefully stepping down or up gutters. I think everyone in my age group concentrates when walking. You must be a young person.

27, so I am young yes, but I refuse to accept that possibility that there are things that you know that you can do without having to put serious thought into them.

How old are you?
 
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klutedavid

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Ah, but you're mistaking politicians and lawyers, an absolutely tiny subset of the world population, for the broader scope of humanity. The minority does not represent the whole.
"Any man who judges by the group is a pea-wit. You take men one at a time." to quote Private Buster Kilrain from the 1993 film, Gettysburg.
Incorrect. Politicians are as human as you. They are no different to anyone else. other than being a bit more ambitious. Lawyers have very good memories, better than average. They are not some subset, they represent the entire population.
 
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klutedavid

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27, so I am young yes, but I refuse to accept that possibility that there are things that you know that you can do without having to put serious thought into them.

How old are you?
Heading towards 70 years old.

I will give you some advice, don't ever get old.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Incorrect. Politicians are as human as you. They are no different to anyone else. other than being a bit more ambitious. Lawyers have very good memories, better than average. They are not some subset, they represent the entire population.

No, politicians do not represent the whole population, because they are individuals in a population. A politician's JOB is supposed to represent the population, but they do not represent the whole.
You do not base the whole population on individuals, nor do you base all people on politicians or lawyers. Politicians and lawyers are as varied and multifaceted as all non-politicians and all non-lawyers.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Heading towards 70 years old.

I will give you some advice, don't ever get old.

So you're saying that at 70, ten years older than my own father, there are things that you know that you can easily do without having to put serious thought to them?
 
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klutedavid

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So you're saying that at 70, ten years older than my own father, there are things that you know that you can easily do without having to put serious thought to them?
If you live in a different house every year, a habitual lifestyle is impossible. Most folk live their lives in an unhealthy, habitual lifestyle. I have seen far too many unhealthy people not to recognize what the problem is.

It's not just the unhealthy food choices, it is the mental habits that they also follow. In general the population is ignorant and fat. They blame the politicians but refuse to give politics a try themselves. In order to help out the rest of society of course.

They are too absorbed in their circle of friends, their own hobbies. To even bother to reach out and help others. Believe me, I know what I am talking about.

Probably all politicians have an ideal they pursue but make no mistake, they are ruled by ambition and self interest.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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If you live in a different house every year, a habitual lifestyle is impossible. Most folk live their lives in an unhealthy, habitual lifestyle. I have seen far too many unhealthy people not to recognize what the problem is.

It's not just the unhealthy food choices, it is the mental habits that they also follow. In general the population is ignorant and fat. They blame the politicians but refuse to give politics a try themselves. In order to help out the rest of society of course.

They are too absorbed in their circle of friends, their own hobbies. To even bother to reach out and help others. Believe me, I know what I am talking about.

Probably all politicians have an ideal they pursue but make no mistake, they are ruled by ambition and self interest.

You're refusal to answer my question is very strange and just a little bit annoying. It's not a hard question to answer, so I'll repeat my question: So you're saying that at 70, ten years older than my own father, there are things that you know that you can easily do without having to put serious thought to them?
 
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klutedavid

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No, politicians do not represent the whole population, because they are individuals in a population. A politician's JOB is supposed to represent the population, but they do not represent the whole.
You do not base the whole population on individuals, nor do you base all people on politicians or lawyers. Politicians and lawyers are as varied and multifaceted as all non-politicians and all non-lawyers.
Socrates said, show me an honest man. I agree with Socrates. Show me an honest politician or even an honest lawyer.

You cannot create a subset of the population and jam politicians and lawyers in that subset.

They are real people that I went to school with. They have been friends of mine. They are no different to anyone else, just a bit more talented.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Socrates said, show me an honest man. I agree with Socrates. Show me an honest politician or even an honest lawyer.

You cannot create a subset of the population and jam politicians and lawyers in that subset.

They are real people that I went to school with. They have been friends of mine. They are no different to anyone else, just a bit more talented.

But just because a number of politicians and lawyers are less than honest people does not mean that the whole population of the world is made of less than honest people.
 
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klutedavid

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You're refusal to answer my question is very strange and just a little bit annoying. It's not a hard question to answer, so I'll repeat my question: So you're saying that at 70, ten years older than my own father, there are things that you know that you can easily do without having to put serious thought to them?
The bulk of daily activities are not easy, I have to think everything through. Except perhaps using the computer.
everything including cooking, shower, cleaning, shopping, is a new environment every year.

You don't realize how good you have it.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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The bulk of daily activities are not easy, I have to think everything through. Except perhaps using the computer.
everything including cooking, shower, cleaning, shopping, is a new environment every year.

You don't realize how good you have it.

So you're saying that at 70, ten years older than my own father, there are things that you know that you can easily do without having to put serious thought to them?

Really, just answer yes or no, and I'll stop this line of questioning.
 
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klutedavid

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But just because a number of politicians and lawyers are less than honest people does not mean that the whole population of the world is made of less than honest people.
Most people are dishonest to some degree. Even members of your only family are dishonest at times. Hard to accept but that is the truth.

People learn very early in life to conceal behavior that is not acceptable. You no doubt have concealed things that you have done in your life. Things that you would never tell others about. Everyone does that, everyone portrays themselves somewhat differently to whom they really are.

You may be too young to notice this yet, but you will.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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Most people are dishonest to some degree. Even members of your only family are dishonest at times. Hard to accept but that is the truth.

People learn very early in life to conceal behavior that is not acceptable. You no doubt have concealed things that you have done in your life. Things that you would never tell others about. Everyone does that, everyone portrays themselves somewhat differently to whom they really are.

You may be too young to notice this yet, but you will.

27 is not too young, especially in this day and age of online media. Heck, I've lived through the War on Terror, the Obama Presidency, the Trump Presidency and I will also end up living through the Biden Presidency too.

You said that the human race does not display positive traits, I said that your view of the human race must be very narrow if you've never seen examples of people practicing the traits you call positive. I think that you are either lying when you say that you've never seen people show cooperative or altruistic behaviour, or you are an incredibly nihilistic person if you claim that humans can't be cooperative or altruistic. Good people exist. You just have to look for them, and you will never have to look far.
 
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klutedavid

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27 is not too young, especially in this day and age of online media. Heck, I've lived through the War on Terror, the Obama Presidency, the Trump Presidency and I will also end up living through the Biden Presidency too.

You said that the human race does not display positive traits, I said that your view of the human race must be very narrow if you've never seen examples of people practicing the traits you call positive. I think that you are either lying when you say that you've never seen people show cooperative or altruistic behaviour, or you are an incredibly nihilistic person if you claim that humans can't be cooperative or altruistic. Good people exist. You just have to look for them, and you will never have to look far.
There are different levels of understanding that you reach in life. The older you get, the more deeply you see through people and society.

Of course, there are people out there doing good things to other people.

You saw the Islamic extremists and their love of humanity.

You felt the anger of the Middle East towards the US and coalition forces.

You also saw the world's care and attention for the Islamic extremists families, after the war was over. Rotting in prisoner of war camps in Syria. These children in those camps were not guilty but they were treated inhumanly. They will grow up angry and become extremists themselves but who cares?

Who loves China or it's citizens, we are in a grinding diplomatic struggle with China. There has been increasing aggression towards Chinese citizens in our country. No love in this cold war.

I have seen far too many people slip through the cracks in society. I can clearly see what the problem is.
 
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Warden_of_the_Storm

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There are different levels of understanding that you reach in life. The older you get, the more deeply you see through people and society.

Of course, there are people out there doing good things to other people.

You saw the Islamic extremists and their love of humanity.

You felt the anger of the Middle East towards the US and coalition forces.

You also saw the world's care and attention for the Islamic extremists families, after the war was over. Rotting in prisoner of war camps in Syria. These children in those camps were not guilty but they were treated inhumanly. They will grow up angry and become extremists themselves but who cares?

Who loves China or it's citizens, we are in a grinding diplomatic struggle with China. There has been increasing aggression towards Chinese citizens in our country. No love in this cold war.

I have seen far too many people slip through the cracks in society. I can clearly see what the problem is.

Again, you are either lying about not seeing people being cooperating and being altruistic or are so nihilistic that you refuse to see people being cooperative and altruistic. And this has nothing to do with age.

Governments are not people. Realpolitik and fear creates some horrible messes, but as I said before, there are people out there who are altruistic and decent people.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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How come the human race does not display these traits?
We do, generally with our kin and close in-group (friends).

All I see is obsessional self interest, only for a profit, I'm busy, look at me. As long as your nice to me, then I will be nice to you. Conditional love only when there is a return on that love.

I thought that humanity has a very dark side which is riddled through human history.

I cannot see a love for others, as being an evident trait in human behavior.
Perhaps you are unlucky in not having a loving family and friends.

Today's generally urbanised global lifestyles, with long-distance travel and communications, are far from the small-scale tribal groups of most of our evolutionary history, so our behaviours are somewhat distorted and unpredictable - we're cognitively flexible enough to cope, but where we can't sublimate our tribal aggression (e.g. geographic rivalries, politics, team sports, etc.), we tend to form arbitrary allegiances with exaggerated antipathies toward other groups. Now that the internet and social media connects and gives public access to even the most extreme fringe groups, the problems are multiplying.
 
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FrumiousBandersnatch

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Incorrect. Politicians are as human as you. They are no different to anyone else. other than being a bit more ambitious. Lawyers have very good memories, better than average. They are not some subset, they represent the entire population.
Politicians are a self-selecting subset. You need certain characteristics to become successful as a politician - not least wanting to outclimb the other slippery customers on the greasy pole...
 
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klutedavid

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We do, generally with our kin and close in-group (friends).

Perhaps you are unlucky in not having a loving family and friends.

Today's generally urbanised global lifestyles, with long-distance travel and communications, are far from the small-scale tribal groups of most of our evolutionary history, so our behaviours are somewhat distorted and unpredictable - we're cognitively flexible enough to cope, but where we can't sublimate our tribal aggression (e.g. nested geographic rivalries, politics, team sports, etc.), we tend to form arbitrary allegiances with exaggerated antipathies toward other groups. Now that the internet and social media connects and gives public access to even the most extreme fringe groups, the problems are multiplying.
A very good reply. I agree with what you wrote.

Yet, there are some obvious points to note. The more extreme views find a large population, eager to listen.

Politicians, royalty, film and music stars, the wealthy. Once they could conceal their activities but not these days. They cannot escape the media focus, there is an endless list of people. That will film and tape their activities for a financial return.

Which are worse, film stars, rock stars, or royalty?

I pity the politicians these days, no matter what they say or do, their activities will be broadcast far and wide. They will contradict themselves, their lies will be exposed, their self interest on display. It's a tough gig being a politician these days.

The internet is generating havoc in poorer nations. People are seeing the lifestyles of the wealthy, western nations. And their country is poverty stricken. This is not good as it generates political unrest, social upheaval, anger and frustration. The internet ultimately, will do far more damage in the long run, to the bulk of the population of the world.

Tribal aggression, I agree with that.
 
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klutedavid

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Politicians are a self-selecting subset. You need certain characteristics to become successful as a politician - not least wanting to outclimb the other slippery customers on the greasy pole...
Grab that pole, give it a go. Surely you know how to correct the countries problems.
 
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