DO We Have Free Will?

[sunlover1]

Of course we have free will. When you are deciding what you want to eat for lunch you either say yes to a certain item or no to it. The very fact that you are able to do this is proof that you have free will. If we had no free will we would basically be robots that only did what we were programmed to do.

Well they would say that we have SOME free will but not always.
And that God sometimes 'wills' for us to sin.

IOW, If someone is raped, it was God's will...
HE was teaching someone a lesson, or someone
will be saved because of it etc... Something like
that.

IF someone has to get surgery it's because GOD willed it.
I can't explain it well because it's not my doctrine.
I believe the opposite.

 

[Nanopants]

Well they would say that we have SOME free will but not always.
And that God sometimes 'wills' for us to sin.

IOW, If someone is raped, it was God's will...
HE was teaching someone a lesson, or someone
will be saved because of it etc... Something like
that.

IF someone has to get surgery it's because GOD willed it.
I can't explain it well because it's not my doctrine.
I believe the opposite.

I think that conclusion alone shows that hard determinism is both absurd and not compatible with faith in a good God.

 

[RisingSpirit]

LOL
Nice to meet you.
Did wifey pick out that interesting screenname or is
it some sort of vocational descriptive moniker?





Interesting POV RisingSpirit

Risingspirit means raising the spirit to your head and sinking Qi to the lower abdomen. Thats what I teach my students. It clears the minds for extra wisdom and brings a halo above the crown.

To be really really honest with you is that as far as I can remember my will to reply this message is the God put the keyboard in front of my hands. That means the reforms got it right. God does put the bank in front of the robber to rob and in front of the mother who deposited he money.

Of course God is there. Where else would He be?

It would be goofy to say God had nothing to do with the Sandy Shootings but He put the gun in front of the shooter. Why? thats a mystery


That would be silly to tell God, "I have free will and you can't touch it !".

He'll find a way to get an Elect to believe, if not today, then tomorrow cause He Willed it. He will guarantee His Will will happen.

For the Goats, He'll just let them run on their own sinful course they were born with. It's sort of "Autounsaved" already buildt in humans cause Eve couldn’t keep her hands off the big red apple that God had put there in front of her.

See: God didn't make or force a sinner to do things. They naturally will do them anyway.

PS I believe the "goats" are a group of people and I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say that here. It gets harder and harder to procliam the Bible as the Elects are instructed to do.
opps I also used "humans"

 

[BBAS 64]

Is it God's will for me to sin?
Do I sin.

I'm looking for Scripture., but more than that, I'm looking for the Scripture
to be "rightly divided" as well.


I do sometimes sin, much as I hate to, much as it makes me sad.
It makes me sad because I don't believe my Father is blessed or glorified when I sin...

Good Day, Sunlover

I guess that depend on how you define "free-will"....

I would say No in the strictest sense of the word, as there are things that you do not control that impact you ablity to do the things that you desire.

IE ... I desire to jump off a building and fly by flapping my arms.

How do you define "free" will?

Can God stop you from sinning?

Does sinning serve any purpose at all?

In Him,

Bill

 

[BBAS 64]

Of course we have free will. When you are deciding what you want to eat for lunch you either say yes to a certain item or no to it. The very fact that you are able to do this is proof that you have free will. If we had no free will we would basically be robots that only did what we were programmed to do.

Good Day.

This of course presumes that the item that you desire is availble to you, and if not you are able with out external means to get said item.

I could say I am going in that store to get a Coke, and go in the store to find that Coke is not in the case to be had, and my will is not free to get the Coke I desire and there is not thing I can do to make it appear. Thus I am not free as I am hindered by things I do not and can not control.

I can not choose Coke as it is not avaible to me.

In Him,

Bill

 

[Rev Randy]

i guess there's confusion over "what that means"

but the energy in your phrase "free will" seems reasonable.

like a capacity to just do whatever coupled with a sense of reason and concern for others .

quite often the energy i read is like the "sin within me that sins" and i hardly see the edification in it.

But your focusing on free will to sin. We have another choice as well. Our free will to allow God to help us not sin and to serve Him with all our heart instead.
I don't know about the energy part. Being ancient, I don't have much.

 

[Tangible]

It is never God's will that we sin, yet God is sovereign and often uses our sinful thoughts, words and deeds to accomplish his will. Examples of this are numerous in scripture, Joseph, Judah, even the Crucifixion itself. God knowing we would sin is not the same as God willing that we sin. God cannot be the source of sin and remain God. God cannot act in a manner not in his character and remain God.

To offer a scriptural alternative to the other views in this thread, Lutheran anthropology sees four distinct categories in scripture. First, in the garden Adam and Eve were free to choose to sin or not to sin. Second, after the fall, man is naturally incapable of choosing not to sin. All that does not proceed from faith in Christ is sin, according to Paul, and thus everything an unbeliever does, no matter how good it may seem, is sin. Third, when God saves us by his gift of faith in Christ, we do not return to the state of Adam before the fall, being able to choose to sin or not, but we then have two natures - the Old Adam and the New Adam - one that can only choose to sin, and one that is in the likeness of Christ and cannot chose to sin. The Christian life is a battle btween these two natures. Fourth, when we are resurrected in glory' we will have the mind of Christ fully realized and will never choose to sin.

Most non-Lutheran theology holds that after conversion we again have free will to sin or not to sin. We find that this is simply not what scripture teaches, and thus the two natures theology. The sinful nature is bound to our flesh, and until our flesh physically dies and we are resurrected - when the sons of God are revealed - we will never be free of our fleshly sinful nature, as much as our new man may earnestly desire it.

 

[Cribstyl]

Is it God's will for me to sin?
Do I sin.

I'm looking for Scripture., but more than that, I'm looking for the Scripture
to be "rightly divided" as well.


I do sometimes sin, much as I hate to, much as it makes me sad.
It makes me sad because I don't believe my Father is blessed or glorified when I sin...

It is not God's will that we sin. Yes, it's true that God calls all people to be Holy.
1Pe 1:14As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance:
1Pe 1:15But as he which hath called you is holy, so be ye holy in all manner of conversation;
1Pe 1:16Because it is written, Be ye holy; for I am holy.

Be we all sin at times......
Rom 3:23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

But God is faithful to forgive the repentant ..........


1Jo 1:5This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.
1Jo 1:6If we say that we have fellowship with him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth:
1Jo 1:7But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.
1Jo 1:8If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
1Jo 1:9If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us [our] sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
1Jo 1:10If we say that we have not sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us.

 

[Jake255]

Our will is only truly free, when it is the will of God, otherwise we are under the illusion that we are "free" already.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

But your focusing on free will to sin. We have another choice as well. Our free will to allow God to help us not sin and to serve Him with all our heart instead.
I don't know about the energy part. Being ancient, I don't have much.

Not really . i was focussing more on "freedom will" . kinda like what you described .

 

[Optimax]

We have free will within the boundaries that God set.

 

[Jake255]

We have free will within the boundaries that God set.

We could overstep those boundaries though, right?

 

[InSpiritandTruth]

No, we do not have free will. We have free choice though. Some may look at these as the same thing, but I see them as different. A slave is not free.

Romans 6:15-23 What then? Shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? Certainly not! Do you not know that to whom you present yourselves slaves to obey, you are that one’s slaves whom you obey, whether of sin leading to death, or of obedience leading to righteousness? But God be thanked that though you were slaves of sin, yet you obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which you were delivered. And having been set free from sin, you became slaves of righteousness. I speak in human terms because of the weakness of your flesh. For just as you presented your members as slaves of uncleanness, and of lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as slaves of righteousness for holiness. For when you were slaves of sin, you were free in regard to righteousness. What fruit did you have then in the things of which you are now ashamed? For the end of those things is death. But now having been set free from sin, and having become slaves of God, you have your fruit to holiness, and the end, everlasting life. For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

 

[Rev Randy]

No, we do not have free will. We have free choice though. Some may look at these as the same thing, but I see them as different. A slave is not free.

So changing a word's meaning makes it acceptable? A slave to Christ is indeed free in Christ. We are not slaves by force but by self submission.

 

[patience7]

Risingspirit means raising the spirit to your head and sinking Qi to the lower abdomen. Thats what I teach my students. It clears the minds for extra wisdom and brings a halo above the crown.

To be really really honest with you is that as far as I can remember my will to reply this message is the God put the keyboard in front of my hands. That means the reforms got it right. God does put the bank in front of the robber to rob and in front of the mother who deposited he money.

Of course God is there. Where else would He be?

Are you saying that - you could not type on the keyboard unless God put it in front of you? or that the bank wouldn't be robbed if God hadn't put the bank in front of the robber? The computer and keyboard were made by men - you by your decision purchased the computer and keyboard and that is what made it available for your use. The computer and keyboard can be used for good and for evil - depends upon whose "hands" the equipment is placed in - one who serves God or one who serves the God of this world. Same goes for the bank robber - the bank is there to be used for good purposes and also bad purposes depends upon the "person" using said bank.

It would be goofy to say God had nothing to do with the Sandy Shootings but He put the gun in front of the shooter. Why? thats a mystery
That would be silly to tell God, "I have free will and you can't touch it !".

I believe to think that God had anything to do with the Sandy Shootings is pure stupidity. . . .I can see that you do not believe that Satan, God's adversary as well as ours has any influence over anything. . . BUT he is the god of this world and will be until he is totally destroyed. God's work in the Sandy Shootings is shown by the ones that survived. .not the killings. God can and does influence people either through his written word or through speaking to someone directly - but whether a person listens or not is up to the individual - you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink.

He'll find a way to get an Elect to believe, if not today, then tomorrow cause He Willed it. He will guarantee His Will will happen.

For the Goats, He'll just let them run on their own sinful course they were born with. It's sort of "Autounsaved" already buildt in humans cause Eve couldn’t keep her hands off the big red apple that God had put there in front of her.

See: God didn't make or force a sinner to do things. They naturally will do them anyway.

PS I believe the "goats" are a group of people and I'm not sure if I'm allowed to say that here. It gets harder and harder to procliam the Bible as the Elects are instructed to do.
opps I also used "humans"

When a person believes - he becomes a chosen one, a member in the body of Christ - when a person refuses to believe - he is becomes a "goat". . . .

Just my thoughts on the subject. . . .

 

[patience7]

Is it God's will for me to sin?
Do I sin.

I'm looking for Scripture., but more than that, I'm looking for the Scripture
to be "rightly divided" as well.


I do sometimes sin, much as I hate to, much as it makes me sad.
It makes me sad because I don't believe my Father is blessed or glorified when I sin...

Hey, sunlover1. . . .God doesn't "will" us to sin. To sin or not to sin (Shakespeare) is our choice. Are we going to sin? More than likely. . at least I haven't met anyone who hasn't! We are all in a battle, a race to the finish. . . and God loves us.

I don't always like what my children do and I will be the first to admit they haven't always done what I have wanted them - I can say that but let anyone else speak against them and boy howdy! - my dander will come up! God is our Father; we are his kids and he feels the same way when the adversary accuses us before him. . .so our brother stands as mediator between us and the Father and pleads our case (so to speak) and if we are sincere when we ask forgiveness - God cast our sins as far as the east is from the west and remembers them no more. . . .

We serve a great big wonderful God. . . .

 

[Jake255]

No, we do not have free will. We have free choice though. Some may look at these as the same thing, but I see them as different. A slave is not free.

I used to see it this way, too, and struggle with it still sometimes. For instance, we might say free will is the imposing of your will onto another or willing something to happen, maybe causing something to happen that with the human mind consequences would be unknown to us, so the only true "free will" in existance is God's.

Free choice on the other hand would be the decisions you make on a daily basis which are of small consequence to those around you or to yourself.

 

[Jake255]

Hey, sunlover1. . . .God doesn't "will" us to sin. To sin or not to sin (Shakespeare) is our choice. Are we going to sin? More than likely. . at least I haven't met anyone who hasn't! We are all in a battle, a race to the finish. . . and God loves us.

I don't always like what my children do and I will be the first to admit they haven't always done what I have wanted them - I can say that but let anyone else speak against them and boy howdy! - my dander will come up! God is our Father; we are his kids and he feels the same way when the adversary accuses us before him. . .so our brother stands as mediator between us and the Father and pleads our case (so to speak) and if we are sincere when we ask forgiveness - God cast our sins as far as the east is from the west and remembers them no more. . . .

We serve a great big wonderful God. . . .

patience7, this is a good post, I agree, we can not take personal responsibility out of the equation. As James tells us, no one should say God is tempting me for God can not be tempted.

 

[Gregory Thompson]

Slaves .. Friends .. hey .. it depends what God "calls" you .

 

[Rev Randy]

Slaves .. Friends .. hey .. it depends what God "calls" you .

It also depends on how we present our self to the Lord. One can indeed be both at the same time. Matter of fact a true friend is always a servant.