Do we go to Heaven (or Hell) as soon as we die?

SkyWriting

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Most of those quotes are about the Jew's Old Testament idea that we literally sleep in the earth after flesh death. The New Testament reveals a different matter which you SKIPPED...

I did cover passages about sleeping including New Testament passages.

Mathew, Mark, Like, John, Revelation, are not so Old Testamenty.

Also:

1 Corinthians 15:6
After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

1 Corinthians 15:20
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Thanks for checking!
 
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SkyWriting

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I always thought that the term fallen asleep was simply terminology used 2,000 years ago meaning that someone had died.
There are terms for that:

Christ's Sacrifice for the Ungodly
6For at just the right time, while we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. 7Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous man, though for a good man someone might possibly dare to die. 8But God proves His love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.
 
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bling

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To make the discussion interesting, I'll start by quoting a few passages that seem to suggest otherwise:

[Psalm 115:17 ESV]
17 The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence.

[Psalm 6:4-5 ESV]
4 Turn, O Lord, deliver my life; save me for the sake of your steadfast love. 5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise?

[Psalm 88:10-12 ESV]
10 Do you work wonders for the dead?
Do the departed rise up to praise you? Selah
11 Is your steadfast love declared in the grave,
or your faithfulness in Abaddon?
12 Are your wonders known in the darkness,
or your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

[Isaiah 38:18-19 ESV]
18 For Sheol does not thank you;
death does not praise you;
those who go down to the pit do not hope
for your faithfulness
.
19 The living, the living, he thanks you,
as I do this day;
the father makes known to the children
your faithfulness.​

At face value, it looks like neither David nor Isaiah believed they would be in paradise, in the presence of God, where they would be able to worship Him and praise Him, as soon as they died. Instead, they seem to refer to death as silence, darkness, forgetfulness.

How do Christians who believe that the saints go to the presence of God as soon as they die interpret these statements by David and Isaiah?

More generally, do we go to Heaven (or Hell) as soon as we die?
What difference does it make, if you are going to either place after dying?
 
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TruthSeek3r

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What difference does it make, if you are going to either place after dying?

If Soul Sleep were true, the implications would be the following:
  • All testimonies of people visiting Heaven and Hell would be false (there are TONS of such testimonies).
  • All testimonies of NDEs (near-death experiences) would be false (there are TONS of such testimonies).
  • All testimonies of astral projections would be false (tons of testimonies as well).
  • The doctrine of intercession of saints would be false (painful for Catholics and Eastern Orthodox -- it would mean that all testimonies of encounters with Saints and Mary have been false)
  • Annihilationism would probably be true as well, and therefore all churches that teach immortality of the soul would be wrong.
 
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chad kincham

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Here's another one for you.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing,

From dust to dust, when we die we return to ashes until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, where those in Christ will rise and meet Jesus in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4:16

When we die, we know nothing, but our next conscious thought will be the coming of Jesus, for those in Christ will rise and meet Jesus and for those who are not, for the second death. It is not an eternal death as many teach, it is a punishment (it ends), not punishing forever and ever.

The dead body knows nothing and returns to dust. The spirit leaves the body:

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
 
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bling

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If Soul Sleep were true, the implications would be the following:
  • All testimonies of people visiting Heaven and Hell would be false (there are TONS of such testimonies).
  • All testimonies of NDEs (near-death experiences) would be false (there are TONS of such testimonies).
  • All testimonies of astral projections would be false (tons of testimonies as well).
  • The doctrine of intercession of saints would be false (painful for Catholics and Eastern Orthodox -- it would mean that all testimonies of encounters with Saints and Mary have been false)
  • Annihilationism would probably be true as well, and therefore all churches that teach immortality of the soul would be wrong.
Is that a big problem for you?
"Unbiblical testimonies" should not change your mind on accepting or rejecting God's charity.
Just believe God.
 
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SkyWriting

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If Soul Sleep were true, the implications would be the following:
  • All testimonies of people visiting Heaven and Hell would be false (there are TONS of such testimonies).
  • All testimonies of NDEs (near-death experiences) would be false (there are TONS of such testimonies).
  • All testimonies of astral projections would be false (tons of testimonies as well).

The testimonies are not false. These events do happen.
It's the analysis of those experiences that is in error.
The Human mind is very creative and also very analytical.
Similarities between any two experiences can be attributed
to common experiences or exposure to similar imagery
at any point in a persons life.
 
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Saint Steven

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The dead body knows nothing and returns to dust. The spirit leaves the body:

Ecc 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.
And... five verses later in the chapter we read this.

Ecclesiastes 9:10 NIV
Whatever your hand finds to do, do it with all your might, for in the realm of the dead, where you are going, there is neither working nor planning nor knowledge nor wisdom.
 
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Saint Steven

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Is that a big problem for you?
"Unbiblical testimonies" should not change your mind on accepting or rejecting God's charity.
Just believe God.
It sounds as though you are making a god out of a book.
God is not confined to a book. (bigger than that)

Sad that Christian testimonies are disregarded based on an interpretive option. Why should we believe the gospel accounts if testimonies are questionable?
 
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bling

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It sounds as though you are making a god out of a book.
God is not confined to a book. (bigger than that)

Sad that Christian testimonies are disregarded based on an interpretive option. Why should we believe the gospel accounts if testimonies are questionable?
The Spirit dwells within every devout Christian, He can speak for God.
 
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parousia70

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Did the afterlife theology change from Old Testament to New Testament?
Yes.
Just about everyone who studies NT theology knows that a major change took place for the dead back in the first century. In OT times, the dead went to Hades and were *not* “raised” into Heaven but rather were prevented from leaving Hades by the absence of a covenant that cleansed them fully.

Today, Hades is empty and Heaven is OPEN for business and is now teeming with the saints and our own loved ones who have entered the heavenly abode as described in 2 Corinthians 5:1-2 and are enjoying heaven's bliss with Jesus and each other, and indeed are a great cloud of witnesses, cheering us on as we "Subdue Kingdoms and establish righteousness" everywhere we go!
 
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SkyWriting

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It sounds as though you are making a god out of a book.
God is not confined to a book. (bigger than that)

Sad that Christian testimonies are disregarded based on an interpretive option. Why should we believe the gospel accounts if testimonies are questionable?
All witness accounts are questionable. Have you ever described anything than everyone agreed with?
 
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Saint Steven

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The Spirit dwells within every devout Christian, He can speak for God.
I agree, though I'm not sure what "devout" has to do with it.
Unless the indwelling Spirit comes by works of some sort. ???
 
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NotreDame

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To make the discussion interesting, I'll start by quoting a few passages that seem to suggest otherwise:

[Psalm 115:17 ESV]
17 The dead do not praise the Lord, nor do any who go down into silence.

[Psalm 6:4-5 ESV]
4 Turn, O Lord, deliver my life; save me for the sake of your steadfast love. 5 For in death there is no remembrance of you; in Sheol who will give you praise?

[Psalm 88:10-12 ESV]
10 Do you work wonders for the dead?
Do the departed rise up to praise you? Selah
11 Is your steadfast love declared in the grave,
or your faithfulness in Abaddon?
12 Are your wonders known in the darkness,
or your righteousness in the land of forgetfulness?

[Isaiah 38:18-19 ESV]
18 For Sheol does not thank you;
death does not praise you;
those who go down to the pit do not hope
for your faithfulness
.
19 The living, the living, he thanks you,
as I do this day;
the father makes known to the children
your faithfulness.​

At face value, it looks like neither David nor Isaiah believed they would be in paradise, in the presence of God, where they would be able to worship Him and praise Him, as soon as they died. Instead, they seem to refer to death as silence, darkness, forgetfulness.

How do Christians who believe that the saints go to the presence of God as soon as they die interpret these statements by David and Isaiah?

More generally, do we go to Heaven (or Hell) as soon as we die?

Those verses are understood as while alive on this side of the soil, believers offer remembrance, they worship, they give thanks and praise here on earth. That ceases when the body dies.

Evidende of some part of man existing in a conscious state post death of the body: Transfiguration where Moses is with Jesus and speaking to Jesus.

Paul’s verses in 2 Corinthians 5:1-9 and Philippians 1:21-26, assert that with death the believer is with Christ.

Abraham’s bosom: whether literal or a parable, the fact is Jesus’ parables were rooted in realities. The good “shepherd” is rooted in the reality of shepherds exist as do sheep. His use of doctors, someone owing a debt, some one owed money, the reality of seeds falling on fertile ground and others choked out by weeds, fall on bad soil, etcetera, are all phenomena that exist and happen.
 
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NotreDame

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Here's another one for you.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they will die; But the dead know nothing,

From dust to dust, when we die we return to ashes until the Second Coming of Jesus Christ, where those in Christ will rise and meet Jesus in the air. 1 Thessalonians 4:16

When we die, we know nothing, but our next conscious thought will be the coming of Jesus, for those in Christ will rise and meet Jesus and for those who are not, for the second death. It is not an eternal death as many teach, it is a punishment (it ends), not punishing forever and ever.

Well, the first verse isn’t very compelling. The dead body does indeed know nothing. The Hebrew word is used in relation to a body. Second, the context from the surrounding verses show the discussion is death of the body. The author isn’t asserting any more than death of the body.

“2 It is the same for all. There is one fate for the righteous and for the wicked; for the good, for the clean and the unclean; for the person who offers a sacrifice and for the one who does not sacrifice. As the good person is, so is the sinner; the one who swears an oath is just as the one who is afraid to swear an oath. 3 This is an evil in everything that is done under the sun, that there is one fate for everyone. Furthermore, the hearts of the sons of mankind are full of evil, and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives. Afterward they go to the dead. 4 For whoever is joined to all the living, there is hope; for better a live dog, than a dead lion. 5 For the living know that they will die; but the dead do not know anything, nor do they have a reward any longer, for their memory is forgotten.”

Paul is borrowing from the Genesis account, which is a reference to death of the physical body and nothing more.
 
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NotreDame

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The ancient Israelites did not have a robust conception of heaven and hell; that was a later development. They believed in Sheol, which was simply the abode of the dead. So, the passages you're using are unhelpful for the question you're asking.

That is true. Second Temple Judaism does have a concrete concept of a place where some part of the dead remains conscious after the body dies.

***Edit: I was remiss in my failure to mention the second temple Judaism concept of consciousness after death in some locale was rooted, unsurprisingly, in the OT.
 
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NotreDame

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The conception for heaven and hell developed in the intertestamental period and shows up in the New Testament. The New Testament is going to have better source material for navigating that question. It is anachronistic to expect the Old Testament to provide answers for conceptions that developed later, being my point. You might find hints in the OT, here and there, but the NT is where the question finds its place, if any.

Maybe not…second temple Judaism did have an understanding of consciousness after death in some location. Unsurprisingly, Judaism based this belief in OT verses.

This seeming paradox, of little to no evidence in Judaism of this concept before exile, but said concept existing in second temple Judaism, is explained not by a misinterpretation of the OT but after careful examination, arriving at a more accurate interpretation of the OT.
 
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They sleep until Judgment.


Psalm 90:3-6
You turn man back into dust
And say, “Return, O children of men.”
For a thousand years in Your sight
Are like yesterday when it passes by,
Or as a watch in the night.
You have swept them away like a flood, they fall asleep;
In the morning they are like grass which sprouts anew.
read more.

Job 14:10-12
“But man dies and lies prostrate.
Man expires, and where is he?
“As water evaporates from the sea,
And a river becomes parched and dried up,
So man lies down and does not rise.
Until the heavens are no longer,
He will not awake nor be aroused out of his sleep.

Psalm 13:3
Consider and answer me, O Lord my God;
Enlighten my eyes, or I will sleep the sleep of death,

Daniel 12:2
Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.

Matthew 9:24
He said, “Leave; for the girl has not died, but is asleep.” And they began laughing at Him.

Mark 5:39
And entering in, He *said to them, “Why make a commotion and weep? The child has not died, but is asleep.”

Luke 8:52-53
Now they were all weeping and lamenting for her; but He said, “Stop weeping, for she has not died, but is asleep.” And they began laughing at Him, knowing that she had died.

1 Kings 2:10
Then David slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of David.

Deuteronomy 31:16
The Lord said to Moses, “Behold, you are about to lie down with your fathers; and this people will arise and play the harlot with the strange gods of the land, into the midst of which they are going, and will forsake Me and break My covenant which I have made with them.

2 Samuel 7:12
When your days are complete and you lie down with your fathers, I will raise up your descendant after you, who will come forth from you, and I will establish his kingdom.

1 Kings 11:43
And Solomon slept with his fathers and was buried in the city of his father David, and his son Rehoboam reigned in his place.

1 Kings 14:20
The time that Jeroboam reigned was twenty-two years; and he slept with his fathers, and Nadab his son reigned in his place.

1 Kings 16:6
And Baasha slept with his fathers and was buried in Tirzah, and Elah his son became king in his place.

1 Kings 22:50
And Jehoshaphat slept with his fathers and was buried with his fathers in the city of his father David, and Jehoram his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 14:16
So Jehoash slept with his fathers and was buried in Samaria with the kings of Israel; and Jeroboam his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 15:7
And Azariah slept with his fathers, and they buried him with his fathers in the city of David, and Jotham his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 16:20
So Ahaz slept with his fathers, and was buried with his fathers in the city of David; and his son Hezekiah reigned in his place.

2 Kings 20:21
So Hezekiah slept with his fathers, and Manasseh his son became king in his place.

2 Kings 21:18
And Manasseh slept with his fathers and was buried in the garden of his own house, in the garden of Uzza, and Amon his son became king in his place.

Revelation 14:13
And I heard a voice from heaven, saying, “Write, ‘Blessed are the dead who die in the Lord from now on!’” “Yes,” says the Spirit, “so that they may rest from their labors, for their deeds follow with them.”

John 11:11-14
This He said, and after that He *said to them, “Our friend Lazarus has fallen asleep; but I go, so that I may awaken him out of sleep.” The disciples then said to Him, “Lord, if he has fallen asleep, he will recover.” Now Jesus had spoken of his death, but they thought that He was speaking of literal sleep.read more.

Acts 7:60
Then falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, “Lord, do not hold this sin against them!” Having said this, he fell asleep.

1 Corinthians 15:6
After that He appeared to more than five hundred brethren at one time, most of whom remain until now, but some have fallen asleep;

John 5:28-29
Do not marvel at this; for an hour is coming, in which all who are in the tombs will hear His voice, and will come forth; those who did the good deeds to a resurrection of life, those who committed the evil deeds to a resurrection of judgment.

Job 14:13-15
“Oh that You would hide me in Sheol,
That You would conceal me until Your wrath returns to You,
That You would set a limit for me and remember me!
“If a man dies, will he live again?
All the days of my struggle I will wait
Until my change comes.
“You will call, and I will answer You;
You will long for the work of Your hands.

Psalm 17:15
As for me, I shall behold Your face in righteousness;
I will be satisfied with Your likeness when I awake.

Isaiah 26:19
Your dead will live;
Their corpses will rise.
You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy,
For your dew is as the dew of the dawn,
And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.

Daniel 12:3
Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.

1 Corinthians 15:20
But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the first fruits of those who are asleep.

1 Thessalonians 4:13-18
But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep.

Jeremiah 51:57
“I will make her princes and her wise men drunk,
Her governors, her prefects and her mighty men,
That they may sleep a perpetual sleep and not wake up,”
Declares the King, whose name is the Lord of hosts.

Jeremiah 51:39
“When they become heated up, I will serve them their banquet
And make them drunk, that they may become jubilant
And may sleep a perpetual sleep
And not wake up,” declares the Lord.

Source: 36 Bible verses about Sleep, And Death

Excpet thst, when looking at the Hebrew for the OT verses, and literally the English version you cite for some of them, is referencing death of the body. The verses aren’t opining about what if anything happens after the death of the body but is only discussing death of the body.

Paul’s verses in 2 Corinthians and Philippians demonstrate to die is to be with Christ, and the context is one of immediacy, not a delay by sleep.

Transfiguration: Moses is walking with Jesus and conversing with Jesus. The Greek wording and context does not support the view that this event did not literally happen.

Abraham’s bosom: literal or parable, the fact is Jesus used real phenomena in his parables, th shepherd, sheep, debtors, people owed money, doctors, sick people, etcetera.

The verse of Christ raised from the dead is a reference to his body, nothing more.

Thessalonians is referring to the body being resurrected and nothing more.
 
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