Do we deserve hell?

[gurneyhalleck1]

A reasonable description if you ask me

I have heard a Roman Catholic priest from Ireland say, in a church service, that the entire human race deserves hell because of the sins of Adam and Eve. I will have to disagree with those who say that this is a Protestant belief.

My own view is somewhat different. I believe that God created us for happiness but for those who drift away from God and His ways, the soul deteriorates until Hell is the unfortunately result.




*

*

 

[truthseeker32]

I think there is a false dichotomy that arises when people assume that because it cannot be said that we deserve heaven that we automatically deserve hell. I like to think we deserve neither by default, but instead they just happen to be consequences of our choices.

 

[ArmyMatt]

well, we are created for heaven. God only creates good things, so when He creates man, He creates every man to be in Communion with Him for eternity. however, seeker, you are correct that where we end up is based on the consequences of our actions. Christ Himself judges us according to our deeds.

 

[Macarius]

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I know that I deserve it. God, in His mercy, keeps me from it, and I pray with hope He will do so for eternity.

 

[Colleen1]

I cannot speak for anyone else, but I know that I deserve it. God, in His mercy, keeps me from it, and I pray with hope He will do so for eternity.

Thanks for your post.

 

[Colleen1]

well, we are created for heaven. God only creates good things, so when He creates man, He creates every man to be in Communion with Him for eternity. however, seeker, you are correct that where we end up is based on the consequences of our actions. Christ Himself judges us according to our deeds.

I hope I'm not overstepping by asking this question but do you think Christ judges us according to our deeds and our heart?

 

[ArmyMatt]

I hope I'm not overstepping by asking this question but do you think Christ judges us according to our deeds and our heart?

no, you are fine. yes, that is how He judges us. God will render us according to our deeds. so it is our deeds that prove where our heart lies, and whether we want hell or heaven.

 

[Colleen1]

no, you are fine. yes, that is how He judges us. God will render us according to our deeds. so it is our deeds that prove where our heart lies, and whether we want hell or heaven.

I agree. I guess I was just thinking of 'legalism' = we are saved by our deeds etc. I just think the 2 go hand in hand...heart and deeds.

 

[ArmyMatt]

I agree. I guess I was just thinking of 'legalism' = we are saved by our deeds etc. I just think the 2 go hand in hand...heart and deeds.

yep, heart, deeds, and grace. all three are required for man's salvation.

 

[Colleen1]

yep, heart, deeds, and grace. all three are required for man's salvation.

great minds...lol

 

[Knee V]

"Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things."

Focusing on the good and not the bad is quite Orthodox. There is no need for me to dwell on hell, or on demons, etc. I must know that I am a sinner, even if no one else is. I must acknowledge that I deserve all the worst that could possibly come my way, even if no one else deserves that. But my mind cannot be stuck in a place that will cause me to despair. If I, a created being, am this weak, how much stronger is Christ than my weakness! I must confess and lament over my sin, but I must focus on Christ.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

But I guess I just keep getting back to the "deserve" thing. It's not really Orthodox from my understanding of it. We are made and destined for heaven, our first parents fell in their pride, and God didn't hold anything back in trying to infuse into us the divine life by conquering death by death. Now we're all undertaking the journey to God, everyone in TAW, everyone in Orthodoxy. We're driving down the road, trying our best, hoping in Him. We use the Sacraments to infuse what Adam and Eve managed to squander. We try, struggle, stay in the race. It's not about what we deserve, it's about what we were made for and where God wants us to be. Deserve implies a default, by nature without grace, state of the human condition....which is irrelevent to me. That's my take....

 

[Colleen1]

"Finally, brethren, whatever things are true, whatever things are noble, whatever things are just, whatever things are pure, whatever things are lovely, whatever things are of good report, if there is any virtue and if there is anything praiseworthy—meditate on these things."

Focusing on the good and not the bad is quite Orthodox. There is no need for me to dwell on hell, or on demons, etc. I must know that I am a sinner, even if no one else is. I must acknowledge that I deserve all the worst that could possibly come my way, even if no one else deserves that. But my mind cannot be stuck in a place that will cause me to despair. If I, a created being, am this weak, how much stronger is Christ than my weakness! I must confess and lament over my sin, but I must focus on Christ.

 

[Knee V]

But I guess I just keep getting back to the "deserve" thing. It's not really Orthodox from my understanding of it. We are made and destined for heaven, our first parents fell in their pride, and God didn't hold anything back in trying to infuse into us the divine life by conquering death by death. Now we're all undertaking the journey to God, everyone in TAW, everyone in Orthodoxy. We're driving down the road, trying our best, hoping in Him. We use the Sacraments to infuse what Adam and Eve managed to squander. We try, struggle, stay in the race. It's not about what we deserve, it's about what we were made for and where God wants us to be. Deserve implies a default, by nature without grace, state of the human condition....which is irrelevent to me. That's my take....

I can agree with that.

 

[ArmyMatt]

But I guess I just keep getting back to the "deserve" thing. It's not really Orthodox from my understanding of it. We are made and destined for heaven, our first parents fell in their pride, and God didn't hold anything back in trying to infuse into us the divine life by conquering death by death. Now we're all undertaking the journey to God, everyone in TAW, everyone in Orthodoxy. We're driving down the road, trying our best, hoping in Him. We use the Sacraments to infuse what Adam and Eve managed to squander. We try, struggle, stay in the race. It's not about what we deserve, it's about what we were made for and where God wants us to be. Deserve implies a default, by nature without grace, state of the human condition....which is irrelevent to me. That's my take....

good way of putting it.

 

[Knee V]

I guess, without having been too articulate, I was trying to draw a distinction between what we know of God and His plan of salvation and how we ought to view ourselves that we might learn to repent.

 

[Colleen1]

I guess, without having been too articulate, I was trying to draw a distinction between what we know of God and His plan of salvation and how we ought to view ourselves that we might learn to repent.

Makes sense.

 

[i am an orthodox]

Sorry I did not read the whole thread, but I answer the question anyway please excuse me.

Simple answer: Yes. We deserve hell by birth and we can not "earn" paradise by means of "deserving" it.
Because we are not saved because of our good deeds and because we deserved it, as you earn money for your physical work, but because of faith and humility. We find salvation in faith, and forgiveness of sins by confession, prayer, fasting. But that does't make us "deserve" heaven, because we are saved by grace only

 

[ArmyMatt]

welcome to TAW i am an orthodox!

 

[Gwendolyn]

Interjecting.

The whole "you deserve hell" thing killed much of my faith.

The Orthodox view makes me feel better.