Do they or don't they still apply (the 10 Commandments)?

[christiansincechildhood]

I searched, but didn't quite find what I was looking for on this forum, so I apologize if this discussion already exists and maybe I didn't see it, but I'm curious about the application of the 10 Commandments.

I've heard some Christians say the once you've been saved or born again, and have become a Christian that the 10 Commandments no longer apply to you. Somehow, to me, this doesn't seem right... maybe I've misinterpreted something, but it almost seems like to suggest like "yeah, now that you're a Christian, feel free to go around and kill any anyone, steal anything, sleep with any woman that you want."

I'm not saying that's what they're saying, I'm just pointing out that that's almost what it's like... basically saying that now your in the next chapter of your life, rules no longer apply to you.

 

[FreedomKnight]

Think of the Ten and the other 603 laws as Gods absolute standard for eternal life.

Think of it as the wall you must get over. When you die, Christ lifts you up over the wall and you gain eternal life. The wall never disappears or moves.

As Christians we are without excuse to sin, the thing is that we are forgiven of that sin. We must repent(turn and run towards what God is). One can't just say "Well I'm forgiven so I can do what I want". Romans 11:17-28. You can not sin freely and expect God to be fine with it.

All are accountable and we are most of all.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

I searched, but didn't quite find what I was looking for on this forum, so I apologize if this discussion already exists and maybe I didn't see it, but I'm curious about the application of the 10 Commandments.

I've heard some Christians say the once you've been saved or born again, and have become a Christian that the 10 Commandments no longer apply to you. Somehow, to me, this doesn't seem right... maybe I've misinterpreted something, but it almost seems like to suggest like "yeah, now that you're a Christian, feel free to go around and kill any anyone, steal anything, sleep with any woman that you want."

I'm not saying that's what they're saying, I'm just pointing out that that's almost what it's like... basically saying that now your in the next chapter of your life, rules no longer apply to you.

They do apply. The bible tells us that love is the fulfilling of the law. When we love God we will keep his commandments and anyone who says that they love God and does not keep his commandments is a liar and the truth is not in him.

 

[MakeStraightTheWay]

Since Jesus was the fulfillment of the law, and his two commandments were to love God and to love your neighbor, we are no longer under the law of the ten commandments.

For instance, if you love God and your neighbor, will you murder your neighbor? Will you steal from him? etc...

Also, at Acts 15:28, 29, it says: "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. "

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Since Jesus was the fulfillment of the law, and his two commandments were to love God and to love your neighbor, we are no longer under the law of the ten commandments.

For instance, if you love God and your neighbor, will you murder your neighbor? Will you steal from him? etc...

Also, at Acts 15:28, 29, it says: "It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements: You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. "

Can you explain how your three separate statements put together amounts to a sensible argument. I don't mean this to be rude. But firstly you are saying that Jesus fulfilled the law so we are no longer under it. Then you said if we do the same laws he fulfilled we will keep the 10 commandments. Then you show a verse implying that the laws we should pay attention to are not the 10 commandments. How do these separate points actually go together?

 

[MakeStraightTheWay]

Can you explain how your three separate statements put together amounts to a sensible argument. I don't mean this to be rude. But firstly you are saying that Jesus fulfilled the law so we are no longer under it. Then you said if we do the same laws he fulfilled we will keep the 10 commandments. Then you show a verse implying that the laws we should pay attention to are not the 10 commandments. How do these separate points actually go together?

Of course. After reviewing my post, I should have referred to the "Law" as the Mosaic Law (600+ laws). Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. This is what Jesus meant when He stated that He had not come to abolish the law or the Prophets but to fulfill them. Because God is love and Christ is the Son of God, Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the law. Elsewhere the bible states that the law was given to make man aware of sin — to know the difference between sin and godliness. When the Old Testament laws came the people of God — the Israelites, were not indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they had to be told what sin was and what it wasn’t.

In other words, before the Holy Spirit was poured out, there were many laws that were implemented under Judaism that are not longer required of us. Now it is only imperative that we follow the greatest commandments of all: to love God and love our brothers.

 

[grayED]

The law is fulfilled in our lives through His grace and through the love and gratitude that a newly born spirit has for the One who died for him/her. However, our righteousness in God's eyes isn't achieved in any way through the law, but through faith in the blood of His Son. This is why we Christians seek to please the Lord. Because He first loved us.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Of course. After reviewing my post, I should have referred to the "Law" as the Mosaic Law (600+ laws). Jesus did not come to abolish the law, but to fulfill it. This is what Jesus meant when He stated that He had not come to abolish the law or the Prophets but to fulfill them. Because God is love and Christ is the Son of God, Jesus Christ is the fulfillment of the law. Elsewhere the bible states that the law was given to make man aware of sin — to know the difference between sin and godliness. When the Old Testament laws came the people of God — the Israelites, were not indwelt with the Holy Spirit. Therefore, they had to be told what sin was and what it wasn’t.

In other words, before the Holy Spirit was poured out, there were many laws that were implemented under Judaism that are not longer required of us. Now it is only imperative that we follow the greatest commandments of all: to love God and love our brothers.

I don't really with this. Many of the laws given to Israel were not about what sin was. They had many sacrificial and ceremonial laws which contained shadows of Christ' ultimate sacrifice but this does not have anything to do with what sin was sin. Many of the revolved around already knowing what sin is. For instance, the law to stone a woman caught in adultery goes on the basis of the commandment "Thou shalt not commit adultery". That law itself does not say adultery is wrong, but takes into consideration that the commandment already says it is wrong. So many laws had to do with penalty for sin, since at that time Israel was both a religious nation and a civil nation and Moses had to have laws to govern them in both respects.

The reason they were given these laws were then not because they didn't have the holy spirit. The holy spirit convicts us sin based on our knowledge of sin. The bible tells us that we are to study its words and grow in the knowledge of the Lord.

However this is what I can conclude my what you said. Since you said that they were given the laws because the holy spirit was not poured out and they needed to be told right and wrong, then it means if the spirit is poured out upon us, we should keep those laws automatically. Would this be a correct analysis.

 

[Emmy]

Dear Prophecykid. God`s 10 Commandments are for ever, Jesus gave us 2 Commandments and they say all what God told us in His ten. 1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. 2) Love our neighbour as ourselves. There is no change, Jesus only makes it easier for us to remember. And He points out: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." It is love what God wants from us, selfless and no conditions asked. Jesus also told us to Repent, to exchange our selfish and unloving character for loving God with all our being, and loving our neighbour, ( all others, friends or not friends) as we love ourselves. That is easy to remember and not impossible to do. If we start by treating all we know and all we meet, as we would love to be treated. With kindness, consideration, a friendly smile rather than ignoring or looking the other way. Being helpful when needed, and forgiving rather than always insisting on our rights. Jesus taught us in His prayer: " Father forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us." Everything we say, or do, let us ask ourselves: does God approve? is it loving? When God sees how sincerely we try to follow His Commandments to love, God will approve and bless us. Love is the weapon God wants us to use, love will always be the victor, and we will be God`s loving sons and daughters. It might be not easy to start, but will become easier and easier. I say this with love, Prophecykid. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Dear Prophecykid. God`s 10 Commandments are for ever, Jesus gave us 2 Commandments and they say all what God told us in His ten. 1) Love God with all our hearts, with all our souls, and with all our minds. 2) Love our neighbour as ourselves. There is no change, Jesus only makes it easier for us to remember. And He points out: " On these two Commandments hang all the Law and the Prophets." It is love what God wants from us, selfless and no conditions asked. Jesus also told us to Repent, to exchange our selfish and unloving character for loving God with all our being, and loving our neighbour, ( all others, friends or not friends) as we love ourselves. That is easy to remember and not impossible to do. If we start by treating all we know and all we meet, as we would love to be treated. With kindness, consideration, a friendly smile rather than ignoring or looking the other way. Being helpful when needed, and forgiving rather than always insisting on our rights. Jesus taught us in His prayer: " Father forgive us our sins as we forgive those who sin against us." Everything we say, or do, let us ask ourselves: does God approve? is it loving? When God sees how sincerely we try to follow His Commandments to love, God will approve and bless us. Love is the weapon God wants us to use, love will always be the victor, and we will be God`s loving sons and daughters. It might be not easy to start, but will become easier and easier. I say this with love, Prophecykid. Greetings from Emmy, your sister in Christ.

I total agree Emmy. May God bless you.

 

[Harry3142]

ChristianSinceChildhood-

The Ten Commandments were never meant as a means of obtaining perfection. Instead, they, as well as the other 603 commandments of what we call the Old Testament, were the means of attaining a cohesive, strong society. But there it ended. The promise which God made to the Hebrews as a reward for their keeping his laws and commandments, including The Ten Commandments, shows that there was to be no thought of using those laws in order to become perfect. Here is that promise:

If you pay attention to these laws and are careful to follow them, then the Lord your God will keep his covenant of love with you, as he swore to your forefathers. He will love you and bless you and increase your numbers. He will bless the fruit of your womb, the crops of your land - your grain, new wine and oil - the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flocks in the land that he swore to your forefathers to give you. You will be blessed more than any other people; none of your men or women will be childless, nor any of your livestock without young. The Lord will keep you free from every disease. He will not inflict on you the horrible diseases you knew in Egypt, but he will inflict them on all who hate you. (Deuteronomy 7:12-15,NIV)

There's the agreement. The Hebrews kept God's laws and commandments in this life; the Hebrews were rewarded in this life. It was a pragmatic, here-and-now contract that had nothing whatsoever to do with there even being an afterlife, much less their being able to obtain it. To them death was a wall, not a door. You lived, you died, the end.

In order to see what our attitudes and actions are to be as Christians, we must look to the New Testament for the answer. And that answer is a code of conduct that quite literally requires the direct intervention of the Holy Spirit himself for us to successfully follow:

So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.

The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God.

But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. (Galatians 5:16-26,NIV)

Take a good look at 'the acts of the sinful nature' and 'the fruit of the Spirit'. Do you notice that in both cases you're seeing a list that is primarily made up of emotions rather than actual actions? We are told that we are not to have the feelings that lead us to perform evil acts (acts of the sinful nature), but we are to have the feelings that serve as the impetus for performing acts that are truly righteous (the fruit of the Spirit). So how do we program our feelings so as to rid ourselves of those that lead to acts that are evil, while nurturing those that lead to acts which are righteous?

We don't; God does.

We can no more change our feelings than a leopard can change his spots into stripes. That's why we need the Holy Spirit himself. He fights aginst our sinful nature in paragraph #1 of this passage. He brings the fruit with him and implants that fruit in us in paragraph #3. We also are told to 'keep in step' with him, which implies that he is ahead of us, not behind us. We follow his lead, letting him 'clear the way' for us as we proceed through life. As with our salvation, so with our conduct as Christians we depend entirely on God's actions rather than our own in order to succeed.

God bless-

 

[from scratch]

I searched, but didn't quite find what I was looking for on this forum, so I apologize if this discussion already exists and maybe I didn't see it, but I'm curious about the application of the 10 Commandments.

I've heard some Christians say the once you've been saved or born again, and have become a Christian that the 10 Commandments no longer apply to you. Somehow, to me, this doesn't seem right... maybe I've misinterpreted something, but it almost seems like to suggest like "yeah, now that you're a Christian, feel free to go around and kill any anyone, steal anything, sleep with any woman that you want."

I'm not saying that's what they're saying, I'm just pointing out that that's almost what it's like... basically saying that now your in the next chapter of your life, rules no longer apply to you.

There are numerous threads that deal with the subject.

The simple answer to your question is no the Christian is not subject to the ten commandments.

Reason is that we Christians are not under that covemant. We are under a better covenant made on better promises. Heb 8:6 - But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises. Jer 31:31-34 promises this covenant and Jesus validates it is in existence in 3 Gospels Mat 26:28, MK 14:24 and LK 22:20.

There are nomerous references that we are not under the law like Romans 6:14, 15. Under means subject to. Roman 7:4 says we are dead to the law. Roman 10:4 says Jesus is the end of the law for righteousness. Gal 4:30 says to throw out the law.

Does any of the above say we are free to murder, lie, steal or commit adultery? No! We are under a different law - Romans 8:1,2. Paul tells us to not use the law of liberty for an occasion to the flesh (sin) in Gal 5. The items called sin in the OT are refered to lusts of the flesh which those wo are led of the Spirit don't practice or do - Gal 5:16-21.

 

[Armistead14]

Most forget the law was given to the Jews only. We also need to define God's never changing moral law vs mosaic law.

The mosaic law, no one was meant to live under except the jews. Many of these laws were cultural laws. People really need to read them if they think they should live under them. You certainly wouldn't want to be a woman.

Because the mosaic law was based on the culture of that time, many of the laws seem very cruel based on our culture, they simply wouldn't work. Heck, you would end up in prision if you tried to live by those laws today.

The bible says we were once slaves to the law, now we are slaves to righteousness under grace. To try and live under the law means you've fallen from the teaching of grace.

Love is the new law. Love is defined basically as "doing no harm" Certainly the 10 commandments fall under love.

 

[PROPHECYKID]

Most forget the law was given to the Jews only. We also need to define God's never changing moral law vs mosaic law.

The mosaic law, no one was meant to live under except the jews. Many of these laws were cultural laws. People really need to read them if they think they should live under them. You certainly wouldn't want to be a woman.

Because the mosaic law was based on the culture of that time, many of the laws seem very cruel based on our culture, they simply wouldn't work. Heck, you would end up in prision if you tried to live by those laws today.

The bible says we were once slaves to the law, now we are slaves to righteousness under grace. To try and live under the law means you've fallen from the teaching of grace.

Love is the new law. Love is defined basically as "doing no harm" Certainly the 10 commandments fall under love.

I do not agree that love is the new law. If so you are saying that the laws of the OT had nothing to do with love and Jesus said that on all these laws (laws of love) hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[Armistead14]

The OT mosaic law was for the jews only. Any of God's moral laws, OT or NT always stand. Paul often dealt with issues of recent jewish converts and gentile converts having problems intermixing. Paul understood the jews would still partake of many OT mosaic laws, eating, sex, ect...These didn't apply to gentiles and they wouldn't follow them causing problems. In short Paul said neither was wrong....and told them to accept the differences in love.

Christ made it clear, we now serve a new law under grace. Certainly many OT moral laws deal with love, but we would follow them only because they do because we don't live under law. The bible is clear if you try to keep one part of the law and fail, then you fail in all. Man could never keep the law, thus the need for Christ.

If you study the concept in context, Christ talking to the Jews who often hung on to the law. The teaching was now all law from the past has been replaced by a better law...love.

I think you would agree Christ fulfilled the law, but at the same time made the law useless. He didn't say we didn't honor teachings of love, but we're under a new law of grace, not bound by law...In fact he stated it was dead. The law of love extends the concept, we follow love, not law.

Galatians 5:14 (RSV)
For the whole law is fulfilled in one word, "You shall love your
neighbor as yourself."

Romans 13:8 (RSV)
Owe no one anything, except to love one another; for he who loves
his neighbor has fulfilled the law.

Romans 13:9 (RSV)
The commandments, "You shall not commit adultery, You shall not
kill, You shall not steal, You shall not covet," and any other
commandment, are summed up in this sentence, "You shall love your
neighbor as yourself."

Romans 13:10 (RSV)
Love does no wrong to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfilling
of the law.
James 2:8 (RSV)

 

[drich0150]

Love your Lord God with all of your being, and Love your neighbor as yourself. If you can keep these two commands then you will have full filled all of the others.

This means true righteousness can not be obtained by simply following commands, but at the same time one who is righteous will be observed following the commands. Not out of obligation, but out of love for God.

 

[Lisa S.]

I believe all of the commandments except keeping the Sabbath holy were brought over to the new law, weren't they? In the NT, we are instructed to worship on the first day of the week (Sunday.)

 

[Armistead14]

I believe all of the commandments except keeping the Sabbath holy were brought over to the new law, weren't they? In the NT, we are instructed to worship on the first day of the week (Sunday.)

Where is you scriptural proof that the mosaic law was brought over to the NT?

If so, are you aware and following all the laws of the OT as a woman, should we list them? If you are you would basically be living as a woman does under the control of the Taliban.

Do you follow the commands of your monthly cycle

Speak to the people of Israel, saying: If a woman conceives and bears a male child, she shall be ceremonially unclean seven days; as at the time of her menstruation, she shall be unclean. Her time of blood purification shall be thirty-three days; she shall not touch any holy thing, or come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purification are completed. If she bears a female child, she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her menstruation; her time of blood purification shall be sixty-six days.
(Lev. 12:2-5)

I take it since you believe it, then you have studied them and are following them. Course, you don't have to worry too much, secular law won't allow the church to stone you to death if you break one. Course you could always drop a rock on your head.

 

[Lisa S.]

Where is you scriptural proof that the mosaic law was brought over to the NT?

If so, are you aware and following all the laws of the OT as a woman, should we list them? If you are you would basically be living as a woman does under the control of the Taliban.

Do you follow the commands of your monthly cycle

Speak to the people of Israel, saying: If a woman conceives and bears a male child, she shall be ceremonially unclean seven days; as at the time of her menstruation, she shall be unclean. Her time of blood purification shall be thirty-three days; she shall not touch any holy thing, or come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purification are completed. If she bears a female child, she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her menstruation; her time of blood purification shall be sixty-six days.
(Lev. 12:2-5)

I take it since you believe it, then you have studied them and are following them. Course, you don't have to worry too much, secular law won't allow the church to stone you to death if you break one. Course you could always drop a rock on your head.

I was specifically referring to the ten that were written on the stone tablets. Please do not make any more comments to me. I think we've exchanged enough conversations. I was talking about murder, honoring parents, etc. Of course, there is no need for animal sacrifices or the like. The Old law has passed - nailed to the cross. Again, we've said enough to one another. There is no good feeling, or growth in Christ that comes from our conversing. So, let's stop.

 

[Preecher]

Christians are not under the Law of Moses. We have a New Covenant by the Blood of Jesus.