Lets start with where your at, how does your church define this verse?
Romans 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth
Wise of you to change the subject given your inability to respond!
Here's official Catholic Teaching from New Advent:
An unconditional and positive predestination of the reprobate not only to
hell, but also to
sin, was taught especially by
Calvin (Instit., III, c. xxi, xxiii, xxiv). His followers in
Holland split into two
sects, the Supralapsarians and the
Infralapsarians, the latter of whom regarded
original sin as the motive of positive condemnation, while the former (with
Calvin) disregarded this factor and derived the Divine
decree of reprobation from
God's inscrutable will alone.
Infralapsarianism was also held by
Jansenius (De gratia Christi, l. X, c. ii, xi sq.), who taught that
God had preordained from the
massa damnata of
mankind one part to
eternal bliss, the other to
eternal pain, decreeing at the same
time to deny to those positively damned the
necessary graces by which they might be
converted and keep the commandments; for this reason, he said, Christ died only for the predestined (cf.
Denzinger, "Enchiridion", n. 1092-6). Against such
blasphemous teachings the Second
Synod of Orange in 529 and again the
Council of Trent had pronounced the
ecclesiastical anathema (cf.
Denzinger, nn. 200, 827). This condemnation was perfectly justified, because the
heresy of
Predestinarianism, in direct opposition to the clearest texts of
Scripture, denied the universality of
God's salvific will as well as of
redemption through Christ (cf.
Wisdom 11:24 sq.;
1 Timothy 2:1 sq.), nullified
God's mercy towards the hardened
sinner (
Ezekiel 33:11;
Romans 2:4;
2 Peter 3:9), did away with the freedom of the will to do
good or
evil, and hence with the
merit of good actions and the guilt of the bad, and finally destroyed the
Divine attributes of wisdom,
justice,
veracity,
goodness, and
sanctity. The very spirit of the
Bible should have sufficed to deter
Calvin from a
false explanation of Rom., ix, and his successor Beza from the
exegetical maltreatment of I Pet., ii, 7—8. After weighing all the Biblical texts bearing on
eternal reprobation, a modern
Protestant exegete arrives at the conclusion: "There is no election to
hell parallel to the election to grace: on the contrary, the judgment pronounced on the impenitent supposes human guilt .... It is only after
Christ's salvation has been rejected that reprobation follows" ("Realencyk. für prot. Theol.", XV, 586, Leipzig, 1904). As regards the
Fathers of the Church, there is only St. Augustine who might seem to cause difficulties in the
proof from
Tradition. As a matter of fact he has been claimed by both
Calvin and
Jansenius as favouring their view of the question. This is not the place to enter into an
examination of his
doctrine on reprobation; but that his works contain expressions which, to say the least, might be interpreted in the sense of a negative reprobation, cannot be
doubted. Probably toning down the sharper words of the master, his "best pupil", St. Prosper, in his apology against Vincent of Lerin (Resp. ad 12 obj. Vincent.), thus explained the spirit of Augustine: "Voluntate exierunt, voluntate ceciderunt, et quia præsciti sunt casuri, non sunt prædestinati; essent autem prædestinati, si essent reversuri et in sanctitate remansuri, ac per hoc prædestinatio Dei multis est causa standi, nemini est causa labendi" (of their own will they went out; of their own will they fell, and because their fall was foreknown, they were not predestined; they would however be predestined if they were going to return and persevere in
holiness; hence,
God's predestination is for many the cause of perseverance, for none the cause of falling away). Regarding
Tradition cf.
Petavius, "De Deo", X, 7 sq.; Jacquin in "Revue de l'histoire ecclésiastique", 1904, 266 sq.; 1906, 269 sq.; 725 sq. We may now briefly summarize the whole
Catholic doctrine, which is in harmony with our
reason as well as our
moral sentiments. According to the
doctrinal decisions of general and particular
synods,
God infallibly foresees and immutably preordains from
eternity all future events (cf.
Denzinger, n. 1784), all
fatalistic necessity, however, being barred and human liberty remaining intact (Denz., n. 607). Consequently
man is free whether he accepts grace and does good or whether he rejects it and does
evil (Denz., n. 797). Just as it is
God's true and sincere will that all men, no one excepted, shall obtain
eternal happiness, so, too, Christ has died for all (Denz., n. 794), not only for the predestined (Denz., n. 1096), or for the faithful (Denz., n. 1294), though it is
true that in reality not all avail themselves of the benefits of
redemption (Denz., n. 795). Though
God preordained both
eternal happiness and the good works of the
elect (Denz., n. 322), yet, on the other hand, He predestined no one positively to
hell, much less to
sin (Denz., nn. 200, 816). Consequently, just as no one is saved against his will (Denz., n. 1363), so the reprobate perish solely on account of their wickedness (Denz., nn. 318, 321).
God foresaw the everlasting pains of the impious from all
eternity, and preordained this punishment on account of their
sins (Denz., n. 322), though He does not fail therefore to hold out the grace of
conversion to
sinners (Denz., n. 807), or pass over those who are not predestined (Denz., n. 827). As long as the reprobate live on earth, they may be accounted
true Christians and members of the
Church, just as on the other hand the predestined may be outside the pale of
Christianity and of the
Church (Denz., nn. 628, 631). Without special
revelation no one can
know with
certainty that he belongs to the number of the
elect (Denz., nn. 805 sq., 825 sq.).
