Do Possessions Really Occur?

[Pavel Mosko]

Again, I repeat,.. how do you know if that's real or fake?

1) Well if you are in doubts you can seek out excorcists / deliverance ministry folks that do it yourself and see if you think it is real. There was a famous psychiatrist that wrote self help books, most notably the best selling "The Road Less Traveled" and he changed his stance from being some kind of Agnostic to a believer and wrote a book about it.. "People of the Lie".

https://www.amazon.com/People-Lie-Hope-Healing-Human/dp/0684848597


2) I know for a fact that at least one big case of Multipersonality Disorder was possession. I actually took two classes in mental health diagnosis. And did volunteer work for a survivors of childhood sexual abuse. In the classroom and in my volunteer work I was taught a theory about Multiple Personality Disorders, and Dissociative Disorders. How that is a protective "Defense Mechanism". Quite often you have personalities that are "protectors", while others represent the person as an extremely child like individual they literally have the maturity as far as thoughts and emotions of a five year old etc.


Well guess what that theory, fits a lot of cases, but not all of them. I was watching a PBS documentary and there was a "Multiple Personality" case and one that was suicidal, self abusive. That person did not fit any of the cases, theories etc. that I had studied. Not even of suicide and self harming behavior. One of the dominant personalities that called itself "Enigma" had a seething hatred of the person, and tried to kill them often with cutting. That did not fit any of the "Defense Mechanisms" I had ever studied. It didn't even fit what we knew empirically about suicide. OF course that did not stop the psychiatrist at the start of the documentary from blatantly ignoring the hint and suggestions that she was possessed, and he kept telling her how this someone was part of her religious abuse that she suffered in her Biblical fundamentalist church etc. because I don't think he had any beliefs in anything other than mental illness and wanted to shoe horn in that explanation to this stubborn case.



3) I also had a friend who was a psychiatric nurse. She had lots of anecdotal stories of some clients exciting behavior that suggested it. Besides individuals making statements about being possessed, they would know whenever a certain Christian doctor had entered or left the building even though they had no windows, or ways of hearing it etc. You could see them also starring through the wall watching those kind of people walk by on the monitor etc. like they had X-ray vision and lots of spooky stuff like that. They also could have certain kind of ESP and knowledge of the future at times. Knowing things you never told them or anyone else. Sometimes predicting a specific future events. And so on.

 

[April_Rose]

1) Well if you are in doubts you can seek out excorcists / deliverance ministry folks that do it yourself and see if you think it is real. There was a famous psychiatrist that wrote self help books, most notably the best selling "The Road Less Traveled" and he changed his stance from being some kind of Agnostic to a believer and wrote a book about it.. "People of the Lie".

https://www.amazon.com/People-Lie-Hope-Healing-Human/dp/0684848597


2) I know for a fact that at least one big case of Multipersonality Disorder was possession. I actually took two classes in mental health diagnosis. And did volunteer work for a survivors of childhood sexual abuse. In the classroom and in my volunteer work I was taught a theory about Multiple Personality Disorders, and Dissociative Disorders. How that is a protective "Defense Mechanism". Quite often you have personalities that are "protectors", while others represent the person as an extremely child like individual they literally have the maturity as far as thoughts and emotions of a five year old etc.


Well guess what that theory, fits a lot of cases, but not all of them. I was watching a PBS documentary and there was a "Multiple Personality" case and one that was suicidal, self abusive. That person did not fit any of the cases, theories etc. that I had studied. Not even of suicide and self harming behavior. One of the dominant personalities that called itself "Enigma" had a seething hatred of the person, and tried to kill them often with cutting. That did not fit any of the "Defense Mechanisms" I had ever studied. It didn't even fit what we knew empirically about suicide. OF course that did not stop the psychiatrist at the start of the documentary from blatantly ignoring the hint and suggestions that she was possessed, and he kept telling her how this someone was part of her religious abuse that she suffered in her Biblical fundamentalist church etc. because I don't think he had any beliefs in anything other than mental illness and wanted to shoe horn in that explanation to this stubborn case.



3) I also had a friend who was a psychiatric nurse. She had lots of anecdotal stories of some clients exciting behavior that suggested it. Besides individuals making statements about being possessed, they would know whenever a certain Christian doctor had entered or left the building even though they had no windows, or ways of hearing it etc. You could see them also starring through the wall watching those kind of people walk by on the monitor etc. like they had X-ray vision and lots of spooky stuff like that. They also could have certain kind of ESP and knowledge of the future at times. Knowing things you never told them or anyone else. Sometimes predicting a specific future events. And so on.

I didn't say that it wasn't real in general. I just meant that it was rather difficult to know on camera.

 

[tturt]

Whether it's on camera or not, you could asks God for discerning of spirits.

"Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy." I Cor 14:1

 

[Pavel Mosko]

I didn't say that it wasn't real in general. I just meant that it was rather difficult to know on camera.

Well speaking the language spoken helps. I don't speak Arabic, but I assume by the context in the previous video that they are speaking the usual kinds of things Demoniacs speak. And that itself is not normal... most people wouldn't do that, except for maybe delusional people.....

But there are little things you could do to test that if it is purely delusional and psychosomatic. e.g. the person will react to sacramentals (holy objects) they think or know about, but not to objects around that are hidden, disguised etc.

 

[Sketcher]

I believe they can still happen. I believe that since it is accepted that there is a finite number of demons that cannot reproduce, and since the human population has grown by billions since Bible times, possessions as a percentage of the population will necessarily be less than they were in Bible times.

 

[KayJoy]

1) Well if you are in doubts you can seek out excorcists / deliverance ministry folks that do it yourself and see if you think it is real. There was a famous psychiatrist that wrote self help books, most notably the best selling "The Road Less Traveled" and he changed his stance from being some kind of Agnostic to a believer and wrote a book about it.. "People of the Lie".

https://www.amazon.com/People-Lie-Hope-Healing-Human/dp/0684848597


2) I know for a fact that at least one big case of Multipersonality Disorder was possession. I actually took two classes in mental health diagnosis. And did volunteer work for a survivors of childhood sexual abuse. In the classroom and in my volunteer work I was taught a theory about Multiple Personality Disorders, and Dissociative Disorders. How that is a protective "Defense Mechanism". Quite often you have personalities that are "protectors", while others represent the person as an extremely child like individual they literally have the maturity as far as thoughts and emotions of a five year old etc.


Well guess what that theory, fits a lot of cases, but not all of them. I was watching a PBS documentary and there was a "Multiple Personality" case and one that was suicidal, self abusive. That person did not fit any of the cases, theories etc. that I had studied. Not even of suicide and self harming behavior. One of the dominant personalities that called itself "Enigma" had a seething hatred of the person, and tried to kill them often with cutting. That did not fit any of the "Defense Mechanisms" I had ever studied. It didn't even fit what we knew empirically about suicide. OF course that did not stop the psychiatrist at the start of the documentary from blatantly ignoring the hint and suggestions that she was possessed, and he kept telling her how this someone was part of her religious abuse that she suffered in her Biblical fundamentalist church etc. because I don't think he had any beliefs in anything other than mental illness and wanted to shoe horn in that explanation to this stubborn case.



3) I also had a friend who was a psychiatric nurse. She had lots of anecdotal stories of some clients exciting behavior that suggested it. Besides individuals making statements about being possessed, they would know whenever a certain Christian doctor had entered or left the building even though they had no windows, or ways of hearing it etc. You could see them also starring through the wall watching those kind of people walk by on the monitor etc. like they had X-ray vision and lots of spooky stuff like that. They also could have certain kind of ESP and knowledge of the future at times. Knowing things you never told them or anyone else. Sometimes predicting a specific future events. And so on.

Actually, that case DOES fit with the defense mechanisms of DID/MPD when associated with severe trauma such as SRA and MK Ultra. That alter who called herself Enigma specifically said, "I'll kill her before you do!" That is a very real fear with those who have been threatened with a torturous death. She believed they would kill her for talking (about their abuse) ...ones who have suffered SRA and MK are severely punished and/or killed when their programming breaks down and they begin to talk about what they remember. "Enigma" was fearful and believed they would torture and kill her ...so she vowed to do it before they could.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

Actually, that case DOES fit with the defense mechanisms of DID/MPD when associated with severe trauma such as SRA and MK Ultra. That alter who called herself Enigma specifically said, "I'll kill her before you do!" That is a very real fear with those who have been threatened with a torturous death. She believed they would kill her for talking (about their abuse) ...ones who have suffered SRA and MK are severely punished and/or killed when their programming breaks down and they begin to talk about what they remember. "Enigma" was fearful and believed they would torture and kill her ...so she vowed to do it before they could.

Well it doesn't fit what I was taught in those classic early cases (Sybil, Three Faces of Even and "When Rabbit Howled"). And what I remember of the video did not help either.

I would like to find learn more on the MK ultra. But most of that stuff now on the web deals with conspiracy theory etc. UFOs etc.

Trauma besides occult involvement is looked on as a gateway to possession since the personality is cracked.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Yes, demon possession has happened, but don't let movies or other sensationalist views influence or potentially frighten you.

In traditional Christian practice while demon possession is recognized as something that can happen, mainstream churches also recognize that it is extremely important not to assume the supernatural when a natural explanation is a better fit. Bizarre behavior is more likely to be a symptom of mental illness or some sort of psychological disorder than demonic possession. Actual demon possession is extremely rare--it always has been.

So as a Christian two things are important to keep in mind:

1) You have no reason to fear demon possession, do not fear the devil as the devil is a defeated dog beneath the victorious heel of Jesus Christ our Lord.

2) Actual demon possession is extremely rare, don't allow sensational reports and rumors, or videos on the internet, or Hollywood movies make you think it something it isn't.

There are various so-called "deliverance ministries" out there in the world, I would avoid these and regard them with absolutely no credibility. These are in many if not most cases snake oil salesmen, hucksters, frauds; and even when there might be sincerity there is a monumental lack of understanding on the subject and so mental illness is conflated with demon possession, and actual harm has come from "exorcisms" gone wrong. I say "exorcisms" because it's not an exorcism if there's no demon to exorcise. Many such "ministries" preach false teaching, they argue that demons are the cause of every ache and pain, illness, or even the cause of why a person is financially unstable--it's pure nonsense that should be avoided completely.

So, again, don't let any of that sensationalist tripe influence your thought processes.

In historic, mainstream Christian practice exorcism is something taken seriously--seriously enough to not sensationalize it, or treat it like a television show, or try and make a profit off of it like some potion-seller at a traveling show. Christ has called His Church to care for the well being of our neighbor, to love our fellow man, and so we have a responsibility to care for the bodily needs of our neighbor, but also the mental needs of our neighbor by encouraging mental health, and also the spiritual health of our neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[April_Rose]

1) You have no reason to fear demon possession, do not fear the devil as the devil is a defeated dog beneath the victorious heel of Jesus Christ our Lord.

Oh I know that I have Jesus Christ to protect me,.. but that doesn't mean that I'm not afraid of the devil trying to attack me.

 

[The Liturgist]

We see them more in the 3rd world, some of what might be possession in the West might be classified as mental illness, in fact I know of at least one really blatant case of that.

Their are lots of cases in Egypt. This Coptic priests ministry features a lot of exorcisms of Muslims that come to the church to be delivered at the end of the service.

Indeed. And yet the Egyptian government wont rescind or modify the Sharia-based law that bans adoptions and requires the Coptic church to raise thousands of children who otherwise would live with loving relatives, in orphanages.

The Orthodox in general do a very good job when it comes to exorcism, both Eastern and Oriental.

 

[ViaCrucis]

Oh I know that I have Jesus Christ to protect me,.. but that doesn't mean that I'm not afraid of the devil trying to attack me.

As a Lutheran I like to mention something Martin Luther once said, "I often chase the devil away with a fart." It's humorous, yes, but it highlights something really important too: The devil is a coward.

In the most famous Lutheran hymn, written by Luther himself, A Mighty Fortress is Our God we have this stanza:

"And though this world with devils filled should threaten to undo us
We will not fear, for God hath willed His truth to triumph through us
The Prince of Darkness grim, we tremble not for him
His rage we can endure, for lo, his doom is sure
One little word shall fell him"

It's that last phrase, "one little word shall fell him".

Much has been said about what is meant here, but Luther himself actually tells us that the "little word" is simply this, "Liar". The devil is a liar, call him a liar to his face, and he has then lost. His entire armament of fiery darts dissipates into the empty smoke that they are. We belong to Jesus Christ, the shield of our faith--of Jesus Christ, Lord, the Son of God, who suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, buried, dead, risen on the third day, ascended into heaven, seated at the right hand of the Father from whence He will come again as judge of the living and the dead--that shall stop his attack cold. The devil is a liar, he is a coward, a defeated dog.

It's what St. James himself says in his epistle, "Resist the devil and he must flee." Even in the Epistle of St. Jude we read that when the holy Archangel Michael himself contested with the devil, Michael merely said, "The Lord rebuke you".

So when Dr. Luther says, "I chase him away with a fart." He means that the devil is so cowardly and worthless that even the flatulence of a sinner saved by grace is sufficient to scare the devil away.

Do not fear the devil. You have no reason to fear him.
But the devil has every reason to be afraid of you. You belong to the King of kings.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[mlepfitjw]

@April_Rose Good question.

Because that is one that is a skeptical view on what a possession is. For me, it seems like it all depends on how a person is raised in how they may act like they do. There is also a factor of psychological, and dealings with the brain.

One incident, that right now which comes to my mind is in Mark Chapter 5:1-20.

1And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.

2 And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,

3 who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:

4 because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.

5 And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.

6 But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,

7 and cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.

8 For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.

Demons today? Maybe it's just humans with inner torment, desiring relief from their present frame or state of mind, that effects the spirit of the person that they tend to act in these ways.

 

[April_Rose]

Hey everybody afraid of ghosts and demons, afraid of being possessed? Well we literally have the answer to your prayers!! Just call Jesus Christ He's the real true Ghostbuster and just one prayer away and He's absolutely free of charge!! Busting makes Him feel so good and He's always ready to help you!! Call Him now!!

 

[mlepfitjw]

Haha Rose, I aint fraid of no ghost! Me and a friend from new york was talking about it this morning.

 

[Glorytothefather2245]

I'm just wondering because I heard that the movie The Exorcist was based on a true story. Is there biblical evidence to support this? I think I remember hearing/reading about Jesus casting demons out of people but I'm also pretty sure that if it still occurs today it's nothing like this and this is just Hollywood.

Demonic possession is very real but it is not like it shows in hollywood movies. The problem with hollywood movies is it makes the devil look like he is more powerful than he really is. I can assure that chairs won't be flipping over with people sitting in them and be clung to the wall, and people wont be climbing on the walls like in the movies. Jesus Christ cast out devils, healed people, and delivered people from the evil one. I have been attacked by demons and had witchcraft used on me. Demons are very real and should not be taken lightly. Satan has used media to make the kingdom of darkness look like fun and games and a form of entertainment, but there is nothing entertaining about the demonic realm.

 

[Pavel Mosko]

As a Lutheran I like to mention something Martin Luther once said, "I often chase the devil away with a fart." It's humorous, yes, but it highlights something really important too: The devil is a coward.

The most interesting story on that is the story of him when he was Bible translating while hiding in Wartburg castle.

Throwing Ink at the Devil

 

[April_Rose]

Haha Rose, I aint fraid of no ghost! Me and a friend from new york was talking about it this morning.

Lol,.. I sort of look for any excuse to play that song and I hope it isn't sacrilegious or anything but I pictured Jesus being silly and singing that He wasn't afraid of no ghost and that goofy dance at the end. XD Being silly isn't a sin and I have a feeling that He got into silly mood sometimes just like the rest of us,.. especially if He wanted to get a point a crossed.

Demonic possession is very real but it is not like it shows in hollywood movies. The problem with hollywood movies is it makes the devil look like he is more powerful than he really is. I can assure that chairs won't be flipping over with people sitting in them and be clung to the wall, and people wont be climbing on the walls like in the movies. Jesus Christ cast out devils, healed people, and delivered people from the evil one. I have been attacked by demons and had witchcraft used on me. Demons are very real and should not be taken lightly. Satan has used media to make the kingdom of darkness look like fun and games and a form of entertainment, but there is nothing entertaining about the demonic realm.

Really? Wow, why would somebody do that to you?

 

[The Liturgist]

Yes, demon possession has happened, but don't let movies or other sensationalist views influence or potentially frighten you.

In traditional Christian practice while demon possession is recognized as something that can happen, mainstream churches also recognize that it is extremely important not to assume the supernatural when a natural explanation is a better fit. Bizarre behavior is more likely to be a symptom of mental illness or some sort of psychological disorder than demonic possession. Actual demon possession is extremely rare--it always has been.

So as a Christian two things are important to keep in mind:

1) You have no reason to fear demon possession, do not fear the devil as the devil is a defeated dog beneath the victorious heel of Jesus Christ our Lord.

2) Actual demon possession is extremely rare, don't allow sensational reports and rumors, or videos on the internet, or Hollywood movies make you think it something it isn't.

There are various so-called "deliverance ministries" out there in the world, I would avoid these and regard them with absolutely no credibility. These are in many if not most cases snake oil salesmen, hucksters, frauds; and even when there might be sincerity there is a monumental lack of understanding on the subject and so mental illness is conflated with demon possession, and actual harm has come from "exorcisms" gone wrong. I say "exorcisms" because it's not an exorcism if there's no demon to exorcise. Many such "ministries" preach false teaching, they argue that demons are the cause of every ache and pain, illness, or even the cause of why a person is financially unstable--it's pure nonsense that should be avoided completely.

So, again, don't let any of that sensationalist tripe influence your thought processes.

In historic, mainstream Christian practice exorcism is something taken seriously--seriously enough to not sensationalize it, or treat it like a television show, or try and make a profit off of it like some potion-seller at a traveling show. Christ has called His Church to care for the well being of our neighbor, to love our fellow man, and so we have a responsibility to care for the bodily needs of our neighbor, but also the mental needs of our neighbor by encouraging mental health, and also the spiritual health of our neighbor.

-CryptoLutheran

Indeed, actual possession is incredibly rare. Ive heard andecdotally that one of the stronger diagnostic indicators is a severe and irrational fear or hostility in the presence of crosses, crucifixes, icons of the Theotokos, etc, even when these items cannot be seen by the person.

When the Eastern Orthodox baptize and/or chrismate someone, prayers of exorcism are said over the initiate. People who rejoin the Orthodox Church after having practiced an occult religion or certain rather dark ancient faiths like Hindu or Voudon are Chrismated.

 

[d taylor]

The Bible gives accounts of demon possession, but that was to serve as a sign that Jesus being able to heal these people, was the promised Messiah from the Tanakh.

And as for the apostles in the early church, it was to authenticate their ministry.

There were no instruction left by the apostles in the New Testament on how to carry on and conduct healing of demon possessed people.

 

[GraceBro]

I'm just wondering because I heard that the movie The Exorcist was based on a true story. Is there biblical evidence to support this? I think I remember hearing/reading about Jesus casting demons out of people but I'm also pretty sure that if it still occurs today it's nothing like this and this is just Hollywood.

Yes, they occur. There are accounts throughout the Bible. My pastor had an experience years ago. However, one thing to keep in mind is that demons may not get "exorcised" as much as they choose to leave their host in order to keep up the deception that the means by which they were thought to be removed was legitimate.