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doesn't say only new "to them " just said other tongues and new tongues .Tongues "other" than their own. Tongues which were "new" to them.
I don't think so. You stated that the Hail Mary prayer was vain repetition. I was quoting the whole bible verse to say that the prayer wasn't inherently wrong due to being repetitive. I also can't stand to see Protestant bashing of Catholics, and Catholic bashing of Protestants.this is so ridiculously missing the point and the context it was given in as a reply to another post
doesn't say only new "to them " just said other tongues and new tongues .
thus fully possible as new to all mankind .
Name 1 time in all of scripture that God the Father, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit has ever spoken to anyone in a manner they could not understand. The whole point of communication is the transfer of ideas. Speaking what can't be understood is a complete and utter waste of time.and the language of the holy Spirit who has no physical form being that he is "SPIRIT ' .. is his language "real" ?
I agree. The various foreign countries are mentioned in verses 9-10.In Acts 2:4-11 the disciples spoke in foreign human languages at Pentecost. I don't see anywhere in scripture where tongues is redefined as something else.
Acts 9:36 is a fine example of the writer translating a Hebrew name to Greek for benefit of the readers.The same word appears in Acts 9:36 "Now in Joppa there was a disciple named Tabitha (which translated in Greek is called Dorcas)"
I have done a search in the Blue Letter Bible tools to find that you are mistaken.The word 'interpret' in relation to tongues in 1 Corinthians is the greek word diermēneuō, which in the context of languages means to translate.
As Apostle Paul stated in 1 Corinthians 13:1:
"Though I speak with the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I have become sounding brass or a clanging cymbal."
the language that Christians speak when they are speaking in tongues can be either earthly languages or heavenly languages; and if it's heavenly; then it's no wonder that linguists can't find any "earthly" understanding of them.
obviously a lot he said you have not been able to understand ..Name 1 time in all of scripture that God the Father, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit has ever spoken to anyone in a manner they could not understand. The whole point of communication is the transfer of ideas. Speaking what can't be understood is a complete and utter waste of time.
actualy it says men of those languages heard them speaking in thier own language..so 3 men of 3 different languages could hear one man speaking thier own language... but that would be a miricle a sign and a wonder .It says the disciples began to "speak in other tongues". Then it tells you precisely what those other tongues were: "Parthians, Medes and Elamites; residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya near Cyrene; visitors from Rome (both Jews and converts to Judaism); Cretans and Arabs"
There was nothing "new" about those languages, apart from being new to the disciples.
scrutinize all you want..just be aware that when your done doing so to men..it is The Holy Spirit your scrutinizing...This tends to be the key proof text latched on to for "heavenly languages", the problem is that doing so is a bit like taking the statement Paul makes about baptism for the dead and attempting to construct a brand new theological idea from it.
The only examples of glossolalia in use in Scripture are human languages; and given the fact that Paul isn't teaching here that there is a "tongues ... of angels" but highlighting the supremacy of love--the more excellent way and the greatest charism there is--then it suffices that Paul is using such things as an example of something that would no doubt be very amazing, but it wouldn't compare to love.
I have further questions as well: What use do angels, lacking bodily members including a tongue, a larynx, etc have for language; specifically the construction of audible phonemes strung together into meaningful structures in order to communicate concepts and ideas?
Frankly, I think pivoting to the idea that modern glossolalia is in fact a "heavenly language" to largely be an ad hoc defense of the practice in the face of valid concern and criticism, a means of establishing a non-falsifiable claim to avoid scrutiny.
-CryptoLutheran
the question i asked you isName 1 time in all of scripture that God the Father, Jesus, or the Holy Spirit has ever spoken to anyone in a manner they could not understand. The whole point of communication is the transfer of ideas. Speaking what can't be understood is a complete and utter waste of time.
scrutinize all you want..just be aware that when your done doing so to men..it is The Holy Spirit your scrutinizing...
I agree. The various foreign countries are mentioned in verses 9-10.
Backing up to Acts 2:4, And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other G2087 [heteros] tongues G1100 [glossa], as the Spirit gave them utterance.
The Greek word [heteros] is not used in any other verse where the believers are said to speak in tongues, but only the Greek word [glossa].
Clearly that indicates (1) a unique occurrence of the gathering hearing the various human languages, in contrast with the indicated uniqueness in all instances after that day of (2) those who speak with glossa that is not of any human language.
(1) The gathered people in Acts 2:4 on the day of Pentecost heard the Galileans speak in the varieties of the foreign languages represented.
(2) In the following examples, the word [heteros] is not used.
Acts 10:46 They were hearing them speaking in tongues G1100 [glossa] and exalting God. Acts 10:45 The gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out upon the Gentiles.
It didn't say that they were hearing them speaking in foreign human languages.
1 Cor.14:18 I thank my God, I speak with tongues G1100 [glossa] more than ye all.
1 Cor.13:1 Though I speak with the tongues G1100 [glossa] of men and of angels..
Surely speaking the glossa of men, and the glossa of angels is not comparable with speaking a known foreign human language.
Acts 9:36 is a fine example of the writer translating a Hebrew name to Greek for benefit of the readers.
By your use of Acts 9:36, your position is that the use of the word interpretation concerning a way of knowing what is said by those who speak in tongues, is no more than translation G1329 [Diermeneuo] by natural means.
I have done a search in the Blue Letter Bible tools to find that you are mistaken.
For instance, in 1 Cor.12:10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another, divers kinds of tongues G1100 [glossa]; to another the interpretation G2058 [hermēneia] of tongues G1100 [glossa].
It would be impossible for any translator of known languages to translate by natural means the glossalia spoken by those who speak in tongues by utterance of the Holy Spirit.
Only a person born again, and filled with the Holy Spirit can be given the ability.
The word 'interpretation' is used rather than the word 'translation' to indicate the divine function involved. It shows that God does for the believers, what cannot be done by natural means because the divinely given utterance cannot etymologically be examined, studied and translated in the manner that the writer of Acts 9:36 translated by natural knowledge, the Hebrew name for the Greek speaking audience.
act
actualy it says men of those languages heard them speaking in thier own language..so 3 men of 3 different languages could hear one man speaking thier own language... but that would be a miricle a sign and a wonder .
.......
exactly just like it says ..the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language"..So the miracle was not in the speaking of the disciples, but in the hearing of the crowd? The Holy Spirit fell on the crowd and caused them to miraculously have the gift of interpretation in their ears? And not a hint in the Acts 2 narrative of such an amazing miracle of interpretation taking place? Rather it says:
"All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit enabled them."
"And when this sound occurred, the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language"
exactly just like it says ..the crowd came together, and were bewildered because each one of them was hearing them speak in his own language"..
it was a sign and a wonder . amazing aint it
they were in a foreign country ..hearing some one speak in a foreign language is nothing new nor amazing .Yes it was a sign and a wonder. I too would be amazed if someone started to miraculously speak a foreign language they never learned.
they were in a foreign country ..hearing some one speak in a foreign language is nothing new nor amazing .
they did not personally know the people speaking ,so how could they know the person had not learned the language ? there is nothing astounding about that at all ..
what IS astounding is when the person next to you hears the same guy speaking their language while you hear that same guy speaking yours .. now that's amazing .. and the text does say .. a crowd came together at the noise and they were BEWILDERED .. because what they were hearing was impossible
Although Jesus blew on the disciples, it doesn't say they received the Holy Spirit at that point. In John 7:39 and John 16:7 Jesus specifically says the disciples would not receive the Holy Spirit while He was with them, but that He would send the Spirit only after he had departed to be with the Father. If they received the Spirit when Jesus blew on them, then Jesus was lying. No, Jesus was simply giving them a visual illustration and a future command in preparation for Pentecost.
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