Do NOT judge

[Korean-American Christian]

Christians should NOT be judgmental

Matthew 7 New American Bible (Revised Edition) (NABRE)

Chapter 7

1 “Stop judging, that you may not be judged. 2 For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. 3 Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye? 5 You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.

Christians should be gentle and respectful when speaking with each other and when speaking with non-believers

Proverbs 12:18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
There is one who speaks rashly like the thrusts of a sword, But the tongue of the wise brings healing.


Proverbs 15:1-2 Good News Translation (GNT)
A gentle answer quiets anger, but a harsh one stirs it up.
When wise people speak, they make knowledge attractive, but stupid people spout nonsense.


Proverbs 18:21 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love to talk will have to eat their own words.


Matthew 12:36-37 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

 

[RascaLinFaith]

So, what do you make of Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:12? - "It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning."

 

[Korean-American Christian]

My mistake....in my personal Bible reading time, I must have read that verse and forgotten about it

So, what do you make of Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:12? - "It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning."

 

[Tull]

There is little if any judgement which is why the world is plunging headlong into the abyss

 

[RascaLinFaith]

There is little if any judgement which is why the world is plunging headlong into the abyss

Good point. I think sometimes Christians need to watch how they say things and make sure to be gentle and respectful. But you are right, my friend. No discernment.

 

[Big Drew]

Good point. I think sometimes Christians need to watch how they say things and make sure to be gentle and respectful. But you are right, my friend. No discernment.

Yep. I believe the worst thing we can do to attempt to reach the lost is to try and condemn them to hell with our words...instead we should teach them of the Kingdom through our love and generosity...when we bring the good news through fear it doesn't sound very good...

 

[Korean-American Christian]

I think sometimes Christians need to watch how they say things and make sure to be gentle and respectful.

Proverbs 12:18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
There is one who speaks rashly like the thrusts of a sword, But the tongue of the wise brings healing.

Proverbs 15:1-2 Good News Translation (GNT)
A gentle answer quiets anger, but a harsh one stirs it up.
When wise people speak, they make knowledge attractive, but stupid people spout nonsense.

Proverbs 18:21 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love to talk will have to eat their own words.

Matthew 12:36-37 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

 

[inquiring mind]

There is little if any judgement which is why the world is plunging headlong into the abyss

I believe there is judgment, and consequences (I generally recognize it when I do wrong anyway), but apparently much of the world is not recognizing it as such... since they continue self-destructing.

 

[Shempster]

It seems to me that we are not to judge one anothers MOTIVES and/or INTENTIONS. So if we ask someone to sit and talk with us and they refuse and we think "well that guy is so self-centered and thinks he is better than me" then that is the judgement we should avoid for sure.
If we tell someone "you really shouldn't smoke because it is bad for you" that is a statement that does not question motives.
Now if we say "people who smoke are just dirty people" then that crosses the line.
Its a touchy area. Many church folks love to condemn actions of others and call it fruit inspection. Its a thin line between wanting to help someone and making them feel really bad. Got to be careful when speaking about others. The scary thing is that God looks at our thoughts as well. You can tell by a sour face when someone might be thinking negatively about you, but the Father knows al your thoughts PLUS motives and intentions.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

Many church folks love to condemn actions of others and call it fruit inspection. Its a thin line between wanting to help someone and making them feel really bad. Got to be careful when speaking about others. The scary thing is that God looks at our thoughts as well. You can tell by a sour face when someone might be thinking negatively about you, but the Father knows al your thoughts PLUS motives and intentions.

I agree with you

 

[BobRyan]

Proverbs 12:18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
There is one who speaks rashly like the thrusts of a sword, But the tongue of the wise brings healing.

Proverbs 15:1-2 Good News Translation (GNT)
A gentle answer quiets anger, but a harsh one stirs it up.
When wise people speak, they make knowledge attractive, but stupid people spout nonsense.

Proverbs 18:21 GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
The tongue has the power of life and death, and those who love to talk will have to eat their own words.

Matthew 12:36-37 New American Standard Bible (NASB)
But I tell you that every careless word that people speak, they shall give an accounting for it in the day of judgment. For by your words you will be justified, and by your words you will be condemned.”

So then we must be careful about what we say.

but this is also true --

1 Cor 6
7 Actually, then, it is already a defeat for you, that you have lawsuits with one another. Why not rather be wronged? Why not rather be defrauded? 8 On the contrary, you yourselves wrong and defraud. You do this even to your brethren.
9 Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, 10 nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11 Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.


2 John 1
7 For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist. 8 Watch yourselves, that you do not lose what we have accomplished, but that you may receive a full reward. 9 Anyone who goes too far and does not abide in the teaching of Christ, does not have God; the one who abides in the teaching, he has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your house, and do not give him a greeting; 11 for the one who gives him a greeting participates in his evil deeds.

Titus 1
hospitable, loving what is good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, 9 holding fast the faithful word which is in accordance with the teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in sound doctrine and to refute those who contradict.
10 For there are many rebellious men, empty talkers and deceivers, especially those of the circumcision, 11 who must be silenced because they are upsetting whole families, teaching things they should not teach for the sake of sordid gain. 12 One of themselves, a prophet of their own, said, “Cretans are always liars, evil beasts, lazy gluttons.” 13 This testimony is true. For this reason reprove them severely so that they may be sound in the faith, 14 not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.

Acts 20
29 I know that after my departure savage wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; 30 and from among your own selves men will arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away the disciples after them. 31 Therefore be on the alert, remembering that night and day for a period of three years I did not cease to admonish each one with tears.

Matt 7
3 Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother’s eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? 4 Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ and behold, the log is in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother’s eye.


15 “Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they? 17 So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So then, you will know them by their fruits.

 

[RaymondG]

So, what do you make of Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:12? - "It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning."

@Korean-American Christian Maybe this verse is talking about judging your own temple of God....examining yourself...your own body.

If everyone in the world spent all their time making sure we ourselves are right with God, the world would be heaven.

Instead, most sit in their houses, looking out the window inside their neighbors house and talking about how dirty their house is. Meanwhile, they stayed in the window so long, that their own house became dirty without them even knowing it.
When God leads us away from the window to look Within...we start to clean our own house....when we finally get back to the window we notice that the reason we saw filth outside is because the window itself was dirty. Clean the window and see good/God in all.

 

[Korean-American Christian]

@Korean-American Christian Maybe this verse is talking about judging your own temple of God....examining yourself...your own body.

If everyone in the world spent all their time making sure we ourselves are right with God, the world would be heaven.

Instead, most sit in their houses, looking out the window inside their neighbors house and talking about how dirty their house is. Meanwhile, they stayed in the window so long, that their own house became dirty without them even knowing it.
When God leads us away from the window to look Within...we start to clean our own house....when we finally get back to the window we notice that the reason we saw filth outside is because the window itself was dirty. Clean the window and see good/God it all.

Thank you

 

[The Times]

Yep. I believe the worst thing we can do to attempt to reach the lost is to try and condemn them to hell with our words...instead we should teach them of the Kingdom through our love and generosity...when we bring the good news through fear it doesn't sound very good...

I am trying to contain my laughter as I try to grasp the implication of such a statement.

You state......

"When we bring the good news through fear it doesn't sound very good"



This would in yours books rule out this guy too.........

"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

And more......

44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?47Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” (John 8:44-47)

If I take your definition of being loving and generous I would have to side with you against Jesus and for crying out loud, why would I even be teaching about him? And what Kingdom would I be trying to teach them about and from what gospel? What good new am I bringing sinners if I have already ruled out the sinless Christ?

I would be in this regard not genuine in what I want to teach, that is if I continue to call myself a Christian and certainly disassociate myself from Jesus Christ. I tell you what I would be, I would be a phoney, a crook, a fake, a liar, a fraudster who uses the name of Jesus Christ in vain.

How in God's name can I remove the man who condemned sin by still using his name as some brand name without any substance or trace of any of his teachings that condemned sin.

Why sin must be condemned is why all lawlessness must be condemned, for we are condemning the criminal act and not those who commit the crime. If we truly are loving and generous to those who commit crimes, then we must openly condemn those crimes. Those crimes can be as little as bullying. If we leave crimes unchecked, then we are aiding and abetting the crime and becoming accessories to the crime ourselves.

Condemnation of sin is a good thing, it is what keeps a society in check and people living in harmony without being ripped out of their houses, or cars and raped and beaten. Consider what those Sodomites wanted to do to those Holy Angels that were in Lot's house, why they wanted to rape them.

If we don't condemn sin, then sin flourishes and we ourselves become absorbed in sin. I find we look at the psychology of humanity, pain and fear is the greatest motivator and continues to be in our day. If it wasn't so, then what is stopping criminals from doing what they subjectively believe to be ok. If one neighbour wanted to zing one through his neigbours forehead, then what is stopping him, if there is no fear of imprisonment and pain of punishment.

To teach against sin is to inform the public that these crimes are unacceptable and awareness is the key to deter any lawless acts from continuing unabated. Those who are lost will continue to be lost unless Christains judge their sins and so awareness has everyone keeping everyone in check through awareness, that bullying will not be tolerated, practising murder, practising theft, practising whoremongering, practising inappropriate behavior with animals, practising rapist, practising pedophiles and practising homosexuals will not be tolerated within a Theonomous law society.

But hey, something has happened that never happened before, the Theonomous cultures of man kind have now become autonomous, in so much that no one condemns, rather now accepts and embraces sins within the subjective morality of that particular generations world view, hence if a Christian objected to say homosexuality, then the society reverts to heteronomous law culture by forcing objectors to conform to the instruction of the law makers. This is no different to Islam sharia law and fascist Germany. Who ever stood up and said the nazis were doing wrong in murdering Jews was ostracised and ridiculed.

So much for the Autonomous law society love and generosity. Count me out of this one folks, my loyalty, generosity and love is to Jesus Christ and his teaching will clobber the sins of all nations, even if they so happen to pat their eyebrows.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

So, what do you make of Paul in 1 Corinthians 5:12? - "It isn't my responsibility to judge outsiders, but it certainly is your responsibility to judge those inside the church who are sinning."

What needs to be done is to include the scriptures that give instructions about exactly how to approach a brother or sister who is sinning. Correcting a brother or sister is not the judging that Jesus speaks of when He says. "Judge not..." etc. The judging that Jesus is talking about is the condemnatory type that is at the basis of gossiping and character assassination. It is pronouncing sentence on a "criminal" person in the church.

It is interesting that Paul said that he would not allow any person to judge him, and that he would not even judge himself, but leave judgment solely to Christ who is His Lord.

To judge a person as unspiritual because they wear gold jewellery, certain types of clothing, etc., is the type of judging that is not appropriate. But if a married brother is developing an intimate relationship with the church secretary, then he needs someone to go to him and point out his error to him and his need to be faithful to his wife and not do damage to the church through willful sin of this nature. (these are just examples to show the difference between appropriate and inappropriate judging).

 

[Big Drew]

I am trying to contain my laughter as I try to grasp the implication of such a statement.

You state......

"When we bring the good news through fear it doesn't sound very good"



This would in yours books rule out this guy too.........

"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

And more......

44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?47Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” (John 8:44-47)

If I take your definition of being loving and generous I would have to side with you against Jesus and for crying out loud, why would I even be teaching about him? And what Kingdom would I be trying to teach them about and from what gospel? What good new am I bringing sinners if I have already ruled out the sinless Christ?

I would be in this regard not genuine in what I want to teach, that is if I continue to call myself a Christian and certainly disassociate myself from Jesus Christ. I tell you what I would be, I would be a phoney, a crook, a fake, a liar, a fraudster who uses the name of Jesus Christ in vain.

How in God's name can I remove the man who condemned sin by still using his name as some brand name without any substance or trace of any of his teachings that condemned sin.

Why sin must be condemned is why all lawlessness must be condemned, for we are condemning the criminal act and not those who commit the crime. If we truly are loving and generous to those who commit crimes, then we must openly condemn those crimes. Those crimes can be as little as bullying. If we leave crimes unchecked, then we are aiding and abetting the crime and becoming accessories to the crime ourselves.

Condemnation of sin is a good thing, it is what keeps a society in check and people living in harmony without being ripped out of their houses, or cars and raped and beaten. Consider what those Sodomites wanted to do to those Holy Angels that were in Lot's house, why they wanted to rape them.

If we don't condemn sin, then sin flourishes and we ourselves become absorbed in sin. I find we look at the psychology of humanity, pain and fear is the greatest motivator and continues to be in our day. If it wasn't so, then what is stopping criminals from doing what they subjectively believe to be ok. If one neighbour wanted to zing one through his neigbours forehead, then what is stopping him, if there is no fear of imprisonment and pain of punishment.

To teach against sin is to inform the public that these crimes are unacceptable and awareness is the key to deter any lawless acts from continuing unabated. Those who are lost will continue to be lost unless Christains judge their sins and so awareness has everyone keeping everyone in check through awareness, that bullying will not be tolerated, practising murder, practising theft, practising whoremongering, practising inappropriate behavior with animals, practising rapist, practising pedophiles and practising homosexuals will not be tolerated within a Theonomous law society.

But hey, something has happened that never happened before, the Theonomous cultures of man kind have now become autonomous, in so much that no one condemns, rather now accepts and embraces sins within the subjective morality of that particular generations world view, hence if a Christian objected to say homosexuality, then the society reverts to heteronomous law culture by forcing objectors to conform to the instruction of the law makers. This is no different to Islam sharia law and fascist Germany. Who ever stood up and said the nazis were doing wrong in murdering Jews was ostracised and ridiculed.

So much for the Autonomous law society love and generosity. Count me out of this one folks, my loyalty, generosity and love is to Jesus Christ and his teaching will clobber the sins of all nations, even if they so happen to pat their eyebrows.

I have not said we should not teach against sin...we should, but we do not have to do it in a way that scares people.

Why be offended by the world? We already know the ways of it. I'm more offended at the ones who claim to be religious but are hypocrites...you know...kind of like the folks Jesus was talking to in the verses of scripture you quoted.......

 

[Korean-American Christian]

The judging that Jesus is talking about is the condemnatory type that is at the basis of gossiping and character assassination. It is pronouncing sentence on a "criminal" person in the church. It is interesting that Paul said that he would not allow any person to judge him, and that he would not even judge himself, but leave judgment solely to Christ who is His Lord.

To judge a person as unspiritual because they wear gold jewellery, certain types of clothing, etc., is the type of judging that is not appropriate. But if a married brother is developing an intimate relationship with the church secretary, then he needs someone to go to him and point out his error to him and his need to be faithful to his wife and not do damage to the church through willful sin of this nature. (these are just examples to show the difference between appropriate and inappropriate judging).

I agree that there is a CLEAR DIFFERENCE between condemnatory judging and correction of a Christian brother or sister who is sinning

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

It seems to me that we are not to judge one anothers MOTIVES and/or INTENTIONS. So if we ask someone to sit and talk with us and they refuse and we think "well that guy is so self-centered and thinks he is better than me" then that is the judgement we should avoid for sure.
If we tell someone "you really shouldn't smoke because it is bad for you" that is a statement that does not question motives.
Now if we say "people who smoke are just dirty people" then that crosses the line.
Its a touchy area. Many church folks love to condemn actions of others and call it fruit inspection. Its a thin line between wanting to help someone and making them feel really bad. Got to be careful when speaking about others. The scary thing is that God looks at our thoughts as well. You can tell by a sour face when someone might be thinking negatively about you, but the Father knows al your thoughts PLUS motives and intentions.

If I encounter people like that putting pressure on me, I am more likely to tell them to go and put their comments where the sun don't shine. If they persist, I would tell them that I have a different epistemology about it and they can now persist off.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

And more......

44You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. 45Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me! 46Can any of you prove me guilty of sin? If I am telling the truth, why don’t you believe me?47Whoever belongs to God hears what God says. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” (John 8:44-47)

Your argument falls down if you are applying these words of Jesus to ordinary people. Jesus was speaking to religious leaders who believed they had all the truth and had authority to speak for God. He was not speaking to ordinary people when He said these things, so they cannot apply in evangelistic environments. You may need to find other things that Jesus said to ordinary people to encourage them to believe in Him.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

I have not said we should not teach against sin...we should, but we do not have to do it in a way that scares people.

Why be offended by the world? We already know the ways of it. I'm more offended at the ones who claim to be religious but are hypocrites...you know...kind of like the folks Jesus was talking to in the verses of scripture you quoted.......

Some people need a course in hermeneutics, don't they?