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Do folks believe there is a devil out there anymore? Many don't live like it.

Francis Drake

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I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the conversation that this has incited.
I agree the whole concept of living for God is not for the lazy and (or) the cowards. Jesus said, the way is difficult and hard that leads to life and few find it. I think mainly because unless you push yourself you will never find what God wants of you as individual. It is through that perseverance and the trails you encounter doing the right things in life as you are attempting to live pleasingly before God with the knowledge and understanding you have. If you do not the fire of judgment can not purge you and refine you so you can continue growing in the knowledge and understand of God more.
I think you and I and @topher694 could enjoy serious fellowship and battle together. Lol
Shame I'm over the pond.
 
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topher694

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I think you and I and @topher694 could enjoy serious fellowship and battle together. Lol
Shame I'm over the pond.
I don't travel much, but my mentor who trained us travels over the pond to train others fairly often. :)
 
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tturt

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very disappointed and offended in some of the terminology in the last few posts.

Anyway on to the topic, not an expert myself but a mistake I see is - often there is no mention of how to maintain deliverance and the dangers of not following Scripture afterwards.

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45
 
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Soloworld

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very disappointed and offended in some of the terminology in the last few posts.

Anyway, not an expert myself but a mistake I see is - often there is no mention of how to maintain deliverance and the dangers of not following Scripture afterwards.

"When the unclean spirit is gone out of a man, he walketh through dry places, seeking rest, and findeth none.
44 Then he saith, I will return into my house from whence I came out; and when he is come, he findeth it empty, swept, and garnished.
45 Then goeth he, and taketh with himself seven other spirits more wicked than himself, and they enter in and dwell there: and the last state of that man is worse than the first. Even so shall it be also unto this wicked generation." Matt 12:43-45

tturt, what you stated can be true if you desire to grow and learn after you have been set free, then that delivered person needs to look for a place to do that, even receive Christ and you can even help facilitate that. But Jesus statement here seems to refer to person who is set free then chooses to continue in their wickedness.
This statement could even prove true today when referring to someone as set free "born again" like hebrews said, (paraphrasing) tasted the goodness of God and then turns their back on God and goes back into the world.
It is meant to be a frightful statement to individuals to live right. Each person plays a part in that deliverance.
As you can imagine the people we see in the gospels and acts who were delivered it makes no mention of Jesus or the apostles mentoring them except Mary M when stayed with the group. Jesus told the demonic man whom he cast out the legion of demons to go. I don't think there was any mentoring except I am sure to encourage the man to love God and live right.

Anyway, I hear your concern and I am sure believers desire to help individuals set free to know God. It may not be the person God uses to deliver them because there may not be a workable relationship there to facilitate that to happen.

Mentoring is not all cracked up to be what some think and should also be careful. Look at Jesus's statement to the pharisees.
“What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you cross land and sea to make one convert, and then you turn that person into twice the child of hell you yourselves are! Matthew 23:15
Jesus admonishes us to give people understanding into the father, son and the Holy Spirit and teach them His commands. (discipleship) We all are all suppose to dot that as God gives us opportunity to do so.
 
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Francis Drake

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Sower parable: enemy can influence
"And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts." Mark 4:15
But surely that verse is about receiving things from the Lord and has nothing to do with deliverance from demons.
If you look carefully at the words, it only refers to an unbeliever, someone who has heard the truth and rejected it because his heart was hardened.
As per Romans1 he will be without excuse.
 
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venksta

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Thank you @Soloworld for taking the time to make your video. Your experience was informative to me and my walk with the Lord.

One of my favorite bible teachers has a sermon about spiritual warfare. He listed they come in the form of possession, depression and oppression. Is it possible, for a believer in Christ, who has been reborn with the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, to also be able to become possessed still? Or would they just be subjected to depression and oppression by evil spirits?
 
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Francis Drake

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Thank you @Soloworld for taking the time to make your video. Your experience was informative to me and my walk with the Lord.

One of my favorite bible teachers has a sermon about spiritual warfare. He listed they come in the form of possession, depression and oppression. Is it possible, for a believer in Christ, who has been reborn with the Holy Spirit dwelling in them, to also be able to become possessed still? Or would they just be subjected to depression and oppression by evil spirits?
It's interesting that you ask whether Christians can have demons. To me that indicates your teacher's foundation was nothing more than theory. ie. If he was experienced in actual deliverance from demons, he would know without question that Christians have demons.

Although countless bible teachers break demonic activity into possession or oppression, I believe it is total nonsense and have yet to see that distinction in scripture. If you check all the scriptures related to demon/human interaction, I'm sure they will all indicate that they were indwelling and were dealt with by casting them OUT, not off.

The words usually translated as both demon possessed or oppressed is 'daimonizomai', as seen in Strong's online concordance below-

1139 daimonízomai (from 1142 /daímōn) – properly, demonized, i.e. coming under the power of a demon (fallen angel).

We are commanded to drive out demons, yet Jesus warned that a demon when cast out would wander about till he decides to return, whereupon he finds the house empty and available. This should be a warning that it is unwise to do deliverance on unbelievers because they have no defences against a demon returning. ie. the ministry of deliverance is primarily aimed at setting believers free, not unbelievers..
 
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Soloworld

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BloodWashed91

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We are commanded to drive out demons, yet Jesus warned that a demon when cast out would wander about till he decides to return, whereupon he finds the house empty and available. This should be a warning that it is unwise to do deliverance on unbelievers because they have no defences against a demon returning. ie. the ministry of deliverance is primarily aimed at setting believers free, not unbelievers..

Apologies in advance; I meant to write a short response but ended up writing a whole epistle. God bless anyone who finishes reading it :D

I think you have to be lead by the Holy Spirit at all times. But if my pastor had not commanded the demon that had been posessing my mom for over 5 decades (and the three other demons that were with him) then she would not have been saved, an neither would I, and two of my sisters. Neither would my niece and two nephews have received the grace to now learn to know God and to grow up in a God fearing, anointed church. So through delivering my mother, 1 unbeliever, now 4 adults have come to Christ.

My mom came to church in september 2019 only because she was giving my cousin a ride. She had no idea her life was about to change forever. After service, the pastor offered to pray for her. Skeptically, she allowed it. (This is truly a church of the Lord; the Holy Spirit leads and guides the sermons and everything; the pastor is very much in tune with Him.) a few hours later, after these 4 demons were cast out, she fell on her knees and gave her life to Jesus.

A few days later, she showed the footage to 3 of her daughters (this church deals with stuff like this all the time, so when deliverance starts (sometimes impromptu like with my mom) someone starts filming so that the subject will be able to know what happened afterwards) and asked us to please come with her. We were shocked. Not christian at all, I was living a sinful life and didn't even believe that Satan existed. Whenever I had encountered videos like this I had always laughed at the (in my eyes) naïveté of christians. I knew my mother had had a disdain for christianity as well and was not at all "hysterical" like I believed those people to be who I had seen in videos.

Yet here it was right in front of my eyes: my mom's body but these demons were speaking through her, each with different voices and mannerisms and personalities, contorting my mother's voice in ways I had never heard before...

And all that the pastor and prayer warriors were using was the name of Jesus. That just shocked me. No weird ritual, no witchcraft rites, no potions or candles or whatever. No, it was an anointed ministry and the presence of God, and when they commanded the demons "in the name of Jesus"; that was what it took. This was the first time I encountered the power in the name of Jesus. It astonished me. We came with her the next service and have never left.

I've seen so many things happen. Chains breaking. Demons being manifested by te presence of the Almighty God, and cast out. Witchcraft exposed and destroyed. God is great. Wow, how blessed am I to be able to know all this. My aunt also comes, and a good friend of my mother and a friend of hers. So now through the deliverance of this 1 unbeliever a mass of 10 people was added to the church. 10 souls. God is good.

I always think of Genesis 50:20 when I think of my family. That demon thought by posessing my mom as a child he had won, but look how God used that evil for good! Bless the Lord. Now I think to myself: if I were this specific demon (or Satan who he works for) I would've seriously regretted ever possessing her. Because if he hadn't done it, maybe we all would still have belonged to the kingdom of darkness for not knowing Christ. But now 10 souls have been added to the kingdom of God, hallelujah! So what he meant for evil, God used for good.

I could type forever. I really only meant to write a small paragraph in response to the quoted, but it got a little out of hand; pardon me...

Anyway, I also wanted to add that I've also seen the other thing happen. We got one uncle of mine (who I highly suspected to also be subject to demonic forces) to come with us. But he was in a hurry. After service, pastor and the prayer warriors prayed for him, and there was somewhat of a manifestation. Afterwards he had to go home quickly unfortunately, and there was not really time to really explain it to him. I regretted that afterwards. I believe he might be even worse off now. He didn't really understand what had happened, I think. He went right back to his sinful life and just thought it all strange, and it doesn't seem he will come back to church. It's really really sad.

I've seen with my mom that it really is exactly as in the bible: you cast one out, and he will go out and next time you'll be surprised to find a whole new set of demons he's gathered. You really have to hold on to God, keep pressing on and you need to be filled with His Spirit. He is the only one who gives us the strength. But not every posession is the same. Some go easier than others. Demons are also not the same. Some are higher in rank than others. There is a difference between powers and principalities, and lower demons, for example. And wickedness in high places, this involves witchcraft for example. These all give different problems. And not every deliverance is the same. I'm learning new things every week. Bless the Lord for what I have seen with my own eyes.

But I will say this: GOD has to be center in it all. You can't just search for His power but exclude Him. Many churches are DEAD because their leaders think they have it all figured out with formulas etc. That's very sad. Without God, we are NOTHING. You need to have leaders who are in tune with God, who are led by Him. Too many "pastors" are doing things on their own, and it is very unfortunate.

And spiritual warfare should not be optional, either. Many leaders are fearful. They have that foolish and cowardly "if we don't bother the devil, he won't bother us"-mentality. It will be the end of them if not for an intervention from God. And for their congregation. Because the enemy does not sleep. They like to lay low so that no one will bother to counter them but they are most certainly active. We have to be active and ready also, and wear the armour of God and with that destroy the works of the kingdom of darkness. But most of all, we have to draw near to God, come to His throne, seek His face. He is our strength. Without Him, we are nothing.
 
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