Do Disbelievers Go Too Hell?

[mike1reynolds]

Do you have a problem seeing Mike? because your posts seem to be getting larger and larger in font all the time, this is in fact another form of screaming or yelling at an individual .... The purpose of debate is to intellectually discuss something, not hammer it into one's head .... please decrease your font size ....

Actually I'm having all sorts of trouble here. Thiis board is really man handling my messages, inserting quote breaks in the middle sentences, stripping punction, change font sizes. It is really drving me nuts!

 

[Melethiel]

I asked you, did you specifically say, “Do you think that the belief that all non-Christians go too Hell is not a form of religious bigotry?”

Obviously when you asked the atheists you did not ask this question.

If you will go back and read my posts, you will find that I answered in the affirmative. I asked that exact question.

However, asserting that all non-Christians go too Hell is religious bigotry. You have to take certain passages out of context and focus exclusively on others to hold this view.

"And Jesus answered, I am the way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father but through me."

Like I said, I make no judgments, but leave it to God. However, it is written that Jesus is the only way to salvation.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Mike - If the "truth", from your perspective, is found in other religions, but christianity is full of bigotry and lies, why didn't you pick one of the other religions?
Are your views consistent with the Methodist icon you choose to represent yourself with?

Conservative Christians would like to protray their version as the only true Christianity. Liberal Christian theology is not Christianity in their opinion. Methodism is an expression of liberal Christian theology. This is just another example of conservitve religous bigotry, say that all liberl Christians are not Christian.

 

[Lynn73]

However, asserting that all non-Christians go too Hell is religious bigotry.

No it isn't. It's what the Bible clearly teaches, without taking anything out of context.

 

[Melethiel]

Methodism is an expression of liberal Christian theology.

*raises two eyebrows*

 

[mike1reynolds]

If you will go back and read my posts, you will find that I answered in the affirmative. I asked that exact question.

You said: "I showed them your posts." You did not reply in the affirmative saying that you had concisely asked the question as I posed it.

Like I said, I make no judgments, but leave it to God. However, it is written that Jesus is the only way to salvation.

Either they do or don't. There is no in between. Either everyone is judged on their own merits or all merit is disregarded in favor of judgement by lip service as the conservatives preach.

 

[Lynn73]

Conservative Christians would like to protray their version as the only true Christianity. Liberal Christian theology is not Christianity in their opinion. Methodism is an expression of liberal Christian theology. This is just another example of conservitve religous bigotry, say that all liberl Christians are not Christian.

The experience I've had with liberal Christians is that they tend to ignore what the Bible says in order to be able to tell people what their itching ears want to hear. They accomodate themselves to modern society and what it wants and they disgard the word of God. That's my opinion and what I've noticed in their postings on another board I used to go to.

 

[mike1reynolds]

*raises two eyebrows*

You disagree? What is the Methodist stance on abortion? Do you know?

 

[mike1reynolds]

No it isn't. It's what the Bible clearly teaches, without taking anything out of context.

How do you redefine bigotry such that it excludes this conclusion of yours?

 

[mike1reynolds]

If they don't trust Him as Savior, they're still lost. While loving Him and trying to live according to His teachingsa are good and right, they still must have a personal faith in Him as Savior.

Isn't that what a messiah is? Avatar means world savior.

 

[Lynn73]

Either they do or don't. There is no in between. Either everyone is judged on their own merits or all merit is disregarded in favor of judgement by lip service as the conservatives preach.

If everyone is judged on their own merits, everyone will be in hell. Why do you think Jesus came here and shed His blood on a cross? Because our own "merits" will never make us good enough for heaven. For entrance into heaven, there is only one thing that matters. Either you are in Christ or outside of Christ. It's been clearly exlained to you by more than one person. Do you not want to understand what the Bible says on the subject of salvation and what everyone must do to be saved? Everyone isn't going to accept God's provisions which means everyone isn't going to be saved. It's as simple as that.

 

[Melethiel]

You said: "I showed them your posts." You did not reply in the affirmative saying that you had concisely asked the question as I posed it.

Obviously, since you posed that question several times, it was there. Or are you saying that you did not concisely pose the question?

Either they do or don't. There is no in between. Either everyone is judged on their own merits or all merit is disregarded in favor of judgement by lip service as the conservatives preach.

Now wait just a minute...faith is more than lip service. If you believe that about conservative theology, I suggest you go learn more about it. However, I will say this: if people were judged on their own merits, EVERYONE would go to hell, for we are all sinners, myself more than any.

You disagree? What is the Methodist stance on abortion? Do you know?

I don't see quite what that has to do with it. There is a difference between liberals taking over a denomination and the teachings of the denomination itself. *throws rocks at ELCA and LCMS* For an example of a liberal church, I would suggest the UCC.

 

[Melethiel]

According to what I know about Hinduism, "avatar" simply means an incarnation of the Divine. So Jesus would be an avatar, but that says nothing about believing in Him as the only savior of the world.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Do you mean that I should pronounce and claim something that has been declared a heresy by the Church? NO, sir I will not, and Universalism has been declared a heresy. It is inconsistent with Biblical and Traditional Teaching and has been since the beginning of the Church.....

Was Father Thomas Merton considered a heretic? I don’t know what Universalism is, but since it is heretical I assume that this is not what Father Thomas Merton taught.

 

[mike1reynolds]

According to what I know about Hinduism, "avatar" simply means an incarnation of the Divine. So Jesus would be an avatar, but that says nothing about believing in Him as the only savior of the world.

An avatar is a world savior. Hindus believe that at the end of every age an avatar descends to realign world religions which have all become corrupted.

 

[Lynn73]

How do you redefine bigotry such that it excludes this conclusion of yours?

Once again, you define the truth of God's word as bigotry. You're calling God a bigot. My concern for you hasn't lessened one bit.

And by the way, Hinduism and Christianity aren't compatible. Hindus aren't Christian even if they say Jesus is a messiah or avatar or whatever. To them, He's probably only one of many.

This shows some of the differences between the two:

http://contenderministries.org/hinduism/christianresponse.php

You appear to be trying to make a Christian out of everyone in the world. They aren't.

 

[mike1reynolds]

Obviously, since you posed that question several times, it was there. Or are you saying that you did not concisely pose the question?

I’m saying that if you just presented a ream of printouts the question got lost, which is why I am asking you if you specifically posed the question verbally? Or did you point specifically too a line with the concise expression of the question?

Now wait just a minute...faith is more than lip service. If you believe that about conservative theology, I suggest you go learn more about it.

A beg your pardon, that was an unfair overgeneralization I made. However, those who assert that all non-Christians go too Hell and that profession and grace are all that saves, are only giving lip service to Jesus. If they deny good works or anything besides grace, then what else are they really doing for the Lord besides giving Him lip service? Nothing that I can see.

I don't see quite what that has to do with it. There is a difference between liberals taking over a denomination and the teachings of the denomination itself. *throws rocks at ELCA and LCMS* For an example of a liberal church, I would suggest the UCC.

If you think that modern Methodism is not true to its roots then you are not familiar with John Wesley.

 

[Melethiel]

An avatar is a world savior. Hindus believe that at the end of every age an avatar descends to realign world religions which have all become corrupted.

av·a·tar
n.

1. The incarnation of a Hindu deity, especially Vishnu, in human or animal form.

I believe the specific purpose is "For the protection of the good, for destruction of evil, and for the establishment of righteousness".

However, Hinduism is contradictory to Christianity. There is only ONE "avatar", and that is Christ. You cannot believe in multiple saviors and still trust in Christ alone for salvation.

 

[Lynn73]

An avatar is a world savior. Hindus believe that at the end of every age an avatar descends to realign world religions which have all become corrupted.

There's only ONE Savior of the world and that is Jesus Christ. Hindus beliefs don't change reality. Any religion that that isn't based on biblical truth is corrupted imho. And the only "realigning of world religions" that's going to happen is this ecumenical movement where all religions are moving to join one another and will end up being the false one world church under antichrist. They're ignoring biblical truth to unite and that's exactly where it's headed in my opinion. There's only one truth, one faith, one Savior, one way to the Father.

 

[Melethiel]

I’m saying that if you just presented a ream of printouts the question got lost, which is why I am asking you if you specifically posed the question verbally? Or did you point specifically too a line with the concise expression of the question?

Once again, you fail to read my posts. These are people I talk to online, and know quite well. I pointed them to this thread, with all the back and forth going on, particularly the posts where you posed your question. Seeing that you posed the question several times, one would have to be pretty stupid to miss it.

Here is the verdict: an atheist and a pagan do not agree with your statement that Christianity is bigotry.