Do creationists accept the evolution of plants?

juvenissun · Jul 29, 2014

PsychoSarah said:
Viruses react to many stimuli, they still aren't considered alive

I wonder why not.

This should be a good case to consider what a life really is.

Loudmouth · Jul 29, 2014

juvenissun said:
I wonder why not.

This should be a good case to consider what a life really is.

Can you name something that is not alive?

pgp_protector · Jul 29, 2014

Loudmouth said:
Can you name something that is not alive?

Juve: Plants

Loudmouth · Jul 29, 2014

pgp_protector said:
Juve: Plants

Yes, because plants have none of the characteristics that Juve considers vital for life in rocks . . . oh wait, they do.

PsychoSarah · Jul 29, 2014

juvenissun said:
I wonder why not.

This should be a good case to consider what a life really is.

If you don't know why viruses aren't considered alive, then you aren't qualified to argue about whether or not anything is alive.

juvenissun · Jul 30, 2014

Loudmouth said:
Yes, because plants have none of the characteristics that Juve considers vital for life in rocks . . . oh wait, they do.

Strike three. Boy, I am not kidding you. You really messed up your logic nerves.

I argued that a rock is alive, because you suggest a plant is alive.
If rock is not alive, neither is plant.

SkyWriting · Jul 30, 2014

CabVet said:
And if plants were created the same way as animals why would they evolve while animals do not?

They both evolve, as we can experiment and support.
This says little of how they came to be as they are.

AV1611VET · Jul 30, 2014

SkyWriting said:
They both evolve, as we can experiment and support.
This says little of how they came to be as they are.

Yup.

Survival of the fittest can't explain arrival of the fittest.

God didn't put plants and animals and man here so they could compete with each other.

Isaiah 11:6 The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb, and the leopard shall lie down with the kid; and the calf and the young lion and the fatling together; and a little child shall lead them.
Isaiah 11:7 And the cow and the bear shall feed; their young ones shall lie down together: and the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
Isaiah 11:8 And the sucking child shall play on the hole of the asp, and the weaned child shall put his hand on the cockatrice' den.

Usus Vox Tractus · Jul 30, 2014

pgp_protector said:
Juve: Plants

Haven't you read? Plants can hear you chew them! :o

Kylie · Jul 30, 2014

juvenissun said:
I just started to examine the criterion #1 under her request. Haven't got to the #2 yet.

And you have demonstrated quite clearly that you have no idea how #1 works.

Kylie · Jul 30, 2014

juvenissun said:
If a rock behaved like a snake (on body temperature change), would you suspect that the rock is alive.

But rocks don't behave like snakes, do they?

Kylie · Jul 30, 2014

juvenissun said:
You are saying: A reacts to B, but C (a part of the system) is in control of the reaction.

Of course rocks do that all the time.

And when a rock changes due to a rise in temperature, what part of the rock controls the changes that happen to the rock?

Because you'll find that any changes that happen to the rock are SOLELY the result of the temperature change, not any change caused by the rock trying to maintain a constant condition for itself.

Usus Vox Tractus · Jul 30, 2014

KTS said:
And when a rock changes due to a rise in temperature, what part of the rock controls the changes that happen to the rock?

Because you'll find that any changes that happen to the rock are SOLELY the result of the temperature change, not any change caused by the rock trying to maintain a constant condition for itself.

Well this guy was sliding along and obviously didn't like what he saw where he was going and started heading off the other direction.... http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-RIxsy_S1Oco/Ti90mszgdcI/AAAAAAAAAc8/xcvZCiC1RBk/s1600/moving-rocks-2.jpg

essesai · Jul 30, 2014

I don't think the Bible says plants and animals are created in the same manner.
Take a closer look to the verses describing the creation.

Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds. And it was so.
God said, Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.
So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
God said, Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind. And it was so.
God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
We don't read God created various grass, herbs or trees according its kind as He did with the animals. We read only that God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds. And it was so.
No one of us know how was the process, why should we argue, there never occurred any evolution?
May be God's plan for the vegetation to evolve into species, who knows. But with creatures in the sea and creatures on the land we read, God created the great creatures of the sea ...according to their kinds, so is with birds and animals on land.
The creation man is even different. He created man in His own image.
We can only marvel at the very truth that all that is created is inferior to man and God has a definite plan for the creation. Praise the Lord!

juvenissun · Jul 30, 2014

KTS said:
But rocks don't behave like snakes, do they?

They are similar in body temperature adjustment.

juvenissun · Jul 30, 2014

essesai said:
I don't think the Bible says plants and animals are created in the same manner.
Take a closer look to the verses describing the creation.

Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds. And it was so.
God said, Let the water teem with living creatures, and let birds fly above the earth across the vault of the sky.
So God created the great creatures of the sea and every living thing with which the water teems and that moves about in it, according to their kinds, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
God said, Let the land produce living creatures according to their kinds: the livestock, the creatures that move along the ground, and the wild animals, each according to its kind. And it was so.
God made the wild animals according to their kinds, the livestock according to their kinds, and all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. And God saw that it was good.
We don't read God created various grass, herbs or trees according its kind as He did with the animals. We read only that God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds. And it was so.
No one of us know how was the process, why should we argue, there never occurred any evolution?
May be God's plan for the vegetation to evolve into species, who knows. But with creatures in the sea and creatures on the land we read, God created the great creatures of the sea ...according to their kinds, so is with birds and animals on land.
The creation man is even different. He created man in His own image.
We can only marvel at the very truth that all that is created is inferior to man and God has a definite plan for the creation. Praise the Lord!

It is amazing that Moses (?) put the creation of plants and animals in such a sequence. It is really amazing.

Kylie · Jul 30, 2014

juvenissun said:
They are similar in body temperature adjustment.

Only in the most basic fashion.

By this logic, the cake I cook is alive, because when I put it in a heated environment (the oven), its internal temperature changes.

Is a cake alive, Juve? Is it?

Of course not. So we can conclude that something heating up when it is placed somewhere warm does not count as evidence it is alive.

Dizredux · Jul 30, 2014

juvenissun said:
It is amazing that Moses (?) put the creation of plants and animals in such a sequence. It is really amazing.

But not nearly as amazing as you asserting that rocks are alive.

Dizredux

essesai · Jul 31, 2014

juvenissun said:
It is amazing that Moses (?) put the creation of plants and animals in such a sequence. It is really amazing.

You mean you are less amazed on God's plan?
Why you are not amazed that in spite of the increase in population and the increased use of so many materials including petroleum products, the mankind and world system is sustained all through these years perfectly balanced? Are you not amazed that the Bible predicts this world system is going to end?
Are you not amazed that there has to come a new heaven and earth to make the world system to continue and God has already planned for it?

juvenissun · Jul 31, 2014

essesai said:
You mean you are less amazed on God's plan?
Why you are not amazed that in spite of the increase in population and the increased use of so many materials including petroleum products, the mankind and world system is sustained all through these years perfectly balanced? Are you not amazed that the Bible predicts this world system is going to end?
Are you not amazed that there has to come a new heaven and earth to make the world system to continue and God has already planned for it?

There are many many Biblical descriptions to be extremely amazed about. However, just like I am different from you, you have your amazements and I have mine. That is how Christians should be.

Do creationists accept the evolution of plants?

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