DO CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN ?

NeedyFollower · Jul 17, 2018

John tower said:
I was having this discussion with a brother yesterday ! He asked me if I thought children went to heaven : So I gave him the verse that came to my mind and it was : Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven : So I said to him that a baby obviously has not been born again because he is just too young! I askef him if there were any verses that specifically state that a baby has a spirit : we could not find any : or verses that say babies go to heaven ! Both of us don't believe that babies go to hell though we could not find a single verse that specifically states this so there it is : what saist thou ?

Unless a MAN be again , he cannot enter the Kingdom of heaven ..Jesus used a child as a demonstration and said we have to become like them ..Children can often be cruel but I wonder does adulthood corrupt them..I am quite aware they pick up prejudice , hate and lying from us ...they learn deceit " Don't stare " ..We teach them manners which sometimes leads to being less then inwardly honest ...It is a good question but praise God that He is the judge ..I know that I must become converted like a little child ..I do hope by God;s grace I am being transformed back into a state of innocence .

Steve Petersen · Jul 17, 2018

John tower said:
I was having this discussion with a brother yesterday ! He asked me if I thought children went to heaven : So I gave him the verse that came to my mind and it was : Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven : So I said to him that a baby obviously has not been born again because he is just too young! I askef him if there were any verses that specifically state that a baby has a spirit : we could not find any : or verses that say babies go to heaven ! Both of us don't believe that babies go to hell though we could not find a single verse that specifically states this so there it is : what saist thou ?

No. God throws innocent children into hellfire. That is why he us such an awesome God.

JakeyB123 · Jul 17, 2018

John tower said:
I was having this discussion with a brother yesterday ! He asked me if I thought children went to heaven : So I gave him the verse that came to my mind and it was : Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven : So I said to him that a baby obviously has not been born again because he is just too young! I askef him if there were any verses that specifically state that a baby has a spirit : we could not find any : or verses that say babies go to heaven ! Both of us don't believe that babies go to hell though we could not find a single verse that specifically states this so there it is : what saist thou ?

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
Scripture refers to children as children and man as man, I think there is a difference her between a man being born again, vs a child which has not had the chance.

John tower · Jul 17, 2018

Steve Petersen said:
No. God throws innocent children into hellfire. That is why he us such an awesome God.

Go from the presence of a foolish man .

Tutorman · Jul 17, 2018

John tower said:
I was having this discussion with a brother yesterday ! He asked me if I thought children went to heaven : So I gave him the verse that came to my mind and it was : Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven : So I said to him that a baby obviously has not been born again because he is just too young! I askef him if there were any verses that specifically state that a baby has a spirit : we could not find any : or verses that say babies go to heaven ! Both of us don't believe that babies go to hell though we could not find a single verse that specifically states this so there it is : what saist thou ?

First I want to say thank you for not using all caps. Secondly I believe God makes the decision who goes to heaven and who does not. I do believe up until a certain point a child that is baptized and will be taken to Heaven even though it not be in Scriptures and those not God will decide. Of course I am sure some think I am a weird one as I do not use Sola Scriptura

Tutorman · Jul 17, 2018

TuxAme said:
Jesus said that unless one is born of water and spirit, we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven (be saved). He connected the action of baptism to salvation.

Amen. Many evangelicals just do not understand or what to deny what is really in Scripture and will pretzel their way into saying that Scripture does not say that Baptism and Salvation are connected.

Basil the Great · Jul 17, 2018

The Catholic Church used to teach that the unbaptized babies go to Limbo, based upon the teaching of St. Augustine. While the RCC no longer teaches the Limbo doctrine, it also has not actually repudiated it. Hence, it is possible that unbaptized babies/toddlers go to Limbo, though I personally doubt it. Limbo was/is supposedly not a bad place, but just not as wonderful a place as Heaven. My guess is that babies and toddlers go to Heaven, baptized or not, but only God knows for sure.

TuxAme · Jul 17, 2018

Basil the Great said:
The Catholic Church used to teach that the unbaptized babies go to Limbo, based upon the teaching of St. Augustine. While the RCC no longer teaches the Limbo doctrine, it also has not actually repudiated it. Hence, it is possible that unbaptized babies/toddlers go to Limbo, though I personally doubt it. Limbo was/is supposedly not a bad place, but just not as wonderful a place as Heaven. My guess is that babies and toddlers go to Heaven, baptized or not, but only God knows for sure.

Well, Limbo was never taught as, "this is what happens", but was presented as a possibility. It was a widely held opinion, but not taught as truth.

Basil the Great · Jul 17, 2018

TuxAme said:
Well, Limbo was never taught as, "this is what happens", but was presented as a possibility. It was a widely held opinion, but not taught as truth.

I have heard others say what you said. While it is certainly true that Limbo was never revealed as a dogmatic truth, did not at least some catechisms teach the doctrine?

concretecamper · Jul 17, 2018

Basil the Great said:
did not at least some catechisms teach the doctrine?

No

TuxAme · Jul 17, 2018

Basil the Great said:
I have heard others say what you said. While it is certainly true that Limbo was never revealed as a dogmatic truth, did not at least some catechisms teach the doctrine?

It has never been doctrine, though, so hopefully not. It was a widely held opinion but never dogmatically pronounced.

Loren T. · Jul 17, 2018

Tutorman said:
Amen. Many evangelicals just do not understand or what to deny what is really in Scripture and will pretzel their way into saying that Scripture does not say that Baptism and Salvation are connected.

The thief on the cross. The paralyzed man Jesus healed. The woman who washed Jesus' feet. Cornelius' household. All saved with out baptism. There's no record of the apostles being baptized, either. Baptism is a testimony of salvation, not salvation itself. Believe in your heart, confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and you will be saved.

Loren T. · Jul 17, 2018

https://www.reasonablefaith.org/wri...iddle-knowledge-and-those-who-die-in-infancy/

throughfiierytrial · Jul 17, 2018

John tower said:
I was having this discussion with a brother yesterday ! He asked me if I thought children went to heaven : So I gave him the verse that came to my mind and it was : Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven : So I said to him that a baby obviously has not been born again because he is just too young! I askef him if there were any verses that specifically state that a baby has a spirit : we could not find any : or verses that say babies go to heaven ! Both of us don't believe that babies go to hell though we could not find a single verse that specifically states this so there it is : what saist thou ?

Psalm22:9-10:
9 Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

Matthew 19:14:
4 Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.”

Acts 2:38-40:
Peter replied, “Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call.”

throughfiierytrial · Jul 17, 2018

ViaCrucis said:
In the middle ages some western theologians speculated that there might be a more "neutral" place of the dead, they called it "limbo". Unbaptized children as well as pious pagans were said to exist in a place of limbo, neither experiencing the infinite joys of heaven, but neither was it a "bad" place such as hell. Roman Catholicism has, since, rejected the concept of Limbo (it was never official teaching, merely theological speculation by some prominent thinkers). The word "limbo" itself comes from the Latin meaning "hem" or "border"; i.e. something at an edge.

Simply put, the general consensus among Christians of all backgrounds is that we simply trust that God is is a good, kind, and just God--and we leave it to Him. I suspect, if pressed, most of us would be of the opinion that--yes--the invincibly ignorant (such as unbaptized children) will have a place in the future beatific life. But that we can't state such a thing dogmatically, since we simply can't know since God hasn't told us.

-CryptoLutheran

I believe that I Corinthians 7 gives some helpful and encouragement...

I Corinthians 7:12-14:
To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

It appears should we raise our children in the faith they are holy...God renders the final judgement. I believe in the baptism of infants however and that this training in the faith must follow. To be saved means to possess faith and Psalms 22 speaks of this faith existing already in the womb...
Psalm 22:9-10:
Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

If an infant is baptized one assumes that one or both of the parents were believers which brings us back to the instruction of the I Corinthians 7 passages.

Tutorman · Jul 17, 2018

Loren T. said:
The thief on the cross. The paralyzed man Jesus healed. The woman who washed Jesus' feet. Cornelius' household. All saved with out baptism. There's no record of the apostles being baptized, either. Baptism is a testimony of salvation, not salvation itself. Believe in your heart, confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and you will be saved.

The thief on the cross had baptism of desire. You have no evidence that they were not baptized just because it does not record it. In fact the normative way to begin salvation is to be baptized and repent Acts 2:38:

And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Hazelelponi · Jul 17, 2018

throughfireytrial said:
I believe that I Corinthians 7 gives some helpful and encouragement...

I Corinthians 7:12-14:
To the rest I say this (I, not the Lord): If any brother has a wife who is not a believer and she is willing to live with him, he must not divorce her. 13 And if a woman has a husband who is not a believer and he is willing to live with her, she must not divorce him. 14 For the unbelieving husband has been sanctified through his wife, and the unbelieving wife has been sanctified through her believing husband. Otherwise your children would be unclean, but as it is, they are holy.

It appears should we raise our children in the faith they are holy...God renders the final judgement. I believe in the baptism of infants however and that this training in the faith must follow. To be saved means to possess faith and Psalms 22 speaks of this faith existing already in the womb...
Psalm 22:9-10:
Yet you brought me out of the womb;
you made me trust in you, even at my mother’s breast.
10 From birth I was cast on you;
from my mother’s womb you have been my God.

If an infant is baptized one assumes that one or both of the parents were believers which brings us back to the instruction of the I Corinthians 7 passages.

Everyone is focusing on baptism rather than punishment for sin and what constitutes sinning and judgement.

In the Bible, sin and it's punishment is different from the sin nature that we are born with.. sin is a conscious act...

The wages of Adam's sin is contrasted with the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.. Romans 5:18 ..

Ezekiel 18:20 is important here, also Romans 2:6. Sin is something you are punished for when your conscious of what your doing..

not when you haven't a clue.. does an infant have the capacity for sin? Yes... its capacity is a nature inherited . But an infant/small child doesn't have the ability until they are old enough to actually commit sin.

Basil the Great · Jul 17, 2018

concretecamper said:
No

The Baltimore Catechism section on Baptism, Question 632: Where will persons go -- such as infants -- who have not committed actual sin and who, through no fault of theirs, die without Baptism? A. Persons, such as infants, who have not committed actual sin, and who through no fault of theirs, die without baptism, cannot enter heaven; but it is the common belief that they will go to some place similar to Limbo, where they will be free of suffering, though deprived of the happiness of heaven.

Now, I am not going to research other catechisms and I will simply say that you appear to be correct and it appears that I was wrong. However, while Limbo was not taught as doctrine in the Baltimore Catechism, we can say that it was certainly taught in this catechism anyway, that the unbaptized babies cannot enter Heaven. Having said that, an International Theological Commission issued a report a few years ago which said "there are theological and liturgical reasons to hope that infants who die without baptism may be saved and brought into eternal happiness, even if there is not an explicit teaching on this question found in Revelation". It would appear that this hope for unbaptized infants is a change in the Church's teaching on this subject, at least when compared to the Baltimore Catechism.

throughfiierytrial · Jul 17, 2018

Hazelelponi said:
Everyone is focusing on baptism rather than punishment for sin and what constitutes sinning and judgement.

In the Bible, sin and it's punishment is different from the sin nature that we are born with.. sin is a conscious act...

The wages of Adam's sin is contrasted with the Life, Death, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ.. Romans 5:18 ..

Ezekiel 18:20 is important here, also Romans 2:6. Sin is something you are punished for when your conscious of what your doing..

not when your haven't a clue.. does an infant have the capacity for sin? Yes. But they don't have the ability until they are old enough to actually commit sin.

Not so...
Psalm 51:5-6:
Surely I was sinful at birth,
sinful from the time my mother conceived me.
6 Yet you desired faithfulness even in the womb;
you taught me wisdom in that secret place.

While sins committed in ignorance and sins committed deliberately are looked upon differently, sin is still sin and we all need a Savior.

Richard T · Jul 17, 2018

Every person is lit coming into the world so they would be saved until they are approached by God, if they reject, "their foolish heart is darkened."
John 1:9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
Romans 1:21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

DO CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN ?

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