DO CHILDREN GO TO HEAVEN ?

[ViaCrucis]

David tells them, “While the child was still alive, I fasted and wept, for I said, ‘Who knows whether the Lord will be gracious to me, that the child may live? But now he is dead. Why should I fast? Can I bring him back again? I shall go to him, but he will not return to me.” 2 Samuel 12: 22-23.

Not sure if this helps, but David might be talking about heaven?

As I said in my previous post, David is thinking of She'ol, the place of the dead. The idea of "going to heaven" at one's death wasn't how ancient Hebrews or how the writers of the Old Testament thought--they understood there to be a common place of the dead called She'ol. That idea matured during the 2nd Temple period until we get to Jesus, at which point She'ol was conceived of being split between the place of the righteous dead "Paradise" and the place of the wicked dead "Gehenna". That's why in Jesus' Parable the rich man in Gehenna beholds a great rift between where he is and where Lazarus is; because they are, in a sense, the same "place"--She'ol.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[LoveofTruth]

There is no answer to that question in scripture.

So we just have to trust in God's loving kindness.

There are many answers in scripture for this

 

[Dave-W]

There are many answers in scripture for this

No there are not.

Probably the passages you are thinking of refer to Jewish children born into the Mosaic covenant. That has no bearing on the children of gentile Christians.

 

[Dave-W]

As I said in my previous post, David is thinking of She'ol, the place of the dead. The idea of "going to heaven" at one's death wasn't how ancient Hebrews or how the writers of the Old Testament thought--they understood there to be a common place of the dead called She'ol. That idea matured during the 2nd Temple period until we get to Jesus, at which point She'ol was conceived of being split between the place of the righteous dead "Paradise" and the place of the wicked dead "Gehenna". That's why in Jesus' Parable the rich man in Gehenna beholds a great rift between where he is and where Lazarus is; because they are, in a sense, the same "place"--She'ol.

-CryptoLutheran

Even so, that is all Mosaic covenant theology, not applicable in the New Covenant.

 

[Doulos 7]

Baptism doesn't save anyone.

1 Peter 3:21

 

[Chinchilla]

Not what the text says. David understood that he would "go to him" when he died and went to She'ol. She'ol is not heaven. She'ol is the place of the dead, in David's time She'ol was seen as the common place of the dead. By the time of Jesus the Jewish view had come to conceive of She'ol in two parts, the abode of the righteous dead called Gan-Eden, translated into Greek as Paradeisos ("Paradise", from a Persian loan-word, pairidaeza, meaning an enclosed garden); and Ge-Hinnom, transliterated into Greek as Gehenna (Ge-Hinnom literally means "Valley of Hinnom" and was a valley located outside Old Jerusalem where the Hebrew Bible says was the center of Molech worship and human sacrifice, thus the site was associated with brutal attrocities and evil, even as Gan-Eden, the Garden of Eden, was associated with the bliss Adam had with God before the Fall). These two parts of She'ol, or translated "Hades" in Greek, are illustrated in Jesus' Parable of the Rich Man and Lazarus.

The idea of "going to heaven" after death wasn't an idea which the ancient Hebrews had, and while some second temple texts, such as Enoch, locate the Garden of Eden/Paradise in the third heaven (there were seven heavens in ancient near eastern, including Hebrew, thought), the entirety of She'ol was also conceived as being "below" since the dead were interred in the earth--hence She'ol meaning "grave" or "pit".

The idea that we go to heaven to be with the Lord until the resurrection is an idea borne out of the confession that Christ overcame and defeated Hades/She'ol/Hell, and the righteous saints of old were liberated there. An idea that is touched upon by St. Paul in Ephesians 4:9 and 1 Peter 3:19. The Harrowing of Hell, or as confessed in the Apostles' Creed that Jesus "descended into hell" (Latin: "descendit ad inferos", literally "descended into the depths" or "descended into the lower regions"). And so Paul can say that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord, and in St. John's Apocalypse he sees, in vision, the saints of God before God's throne in heaven.

But the idea of "going to heaven" is absent from 2 Samuel 12, because that isn't how people back then thought, and it's not what David meant, or what the author of 2 Samuel meant. They mean that David will meet his deceased child in the place of the dead, since the child cannot come back to him (since he's dead).

Note that this doesn't mean children don't go to heaven, only that this passage can't be used to back up that assertion.

-CryptoLutheran

But the child havent sinned against the Law so he went to the paradise section of Scheol .

 

[RaymondG]

Jesus said that unless one is born of water and spirit, we cannot enter the Kingdom of Heaven (be saved). He connected the action of baptism to salvation.

He also connected both water and spiritual birth.......and that which God has placed together, can man tear apart?

 

[Loren T.]

There is literally no Biblical precedent for baptizing babies. A Baby can't understand how to be saved, so what exactly is the reason for dipping or sprinkling him or her.
1 Peter 3:21
Does not teach that Baptism saves.
"Not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience - through the resurrection of Jesus Christ."
What saves you? Not the water, but the appeal to God.

 

[RaymondG]

To answer your dilemma, a baby would go to heaven due to their sinless nature.

I like this turn in doctrine......We are now born sinless and destined for heaven.....So use to hearing it the other way around. I say we keep this new way of thinking.

 

[Doulos 7]

Our baptism is the appeal! read this:

An In Depth Study Of A Controversial Subject


Today we will be looking at a very controversial yet simple verse in our New Testaments. 1 Peter 3:21 says, “Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you- not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a clean conscience- through the resurrection of Jesus Christ,”

This single verse is widely mis taught (James 3:1), in the denominational world today!So what is the truth? Does water really save us? Today, if you will bear with me, we will examine this verse piece by piece and solve the controversy once and for all!


First off the apostle Peter writes, “Corresponding to that,”

Well…what does that mean?!?! Calm down! All Peter is doing is tying together the last few verses with verses 21 and 22! So, corresponding to what exactly? Let’s back up and read verses 18-20: (All scriptures references are in the NASB unless otherwise noted)

“For Christ also died for our sins once for all, the just for the unjust, so that He might bring us to God, having been put to death in the flesh, but made alive in the spirit; in which also He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, who once were disobedient, when God waited patiently in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water.” In a nutshell Peter tells us that Noah, bearing the character of Christ (1 John 1:23,24), preached righteousness to the people of his day (2 Peter 2:5). Sadly those people died in the flood, but Noah and his family was “safely brought through the water.”And it’s corresponding to Noah’s salvation that “baptism now saves you” spiritually. Not only is baptism an anti-type of the ark, it is also an anti-type of circumcision (Colossians 2:11,12). It is with this single phrase where most people will ‘fly off the handle’ so to speak! You may ask, ‘Why is it so hard to except what the bible teaches?’ Good question! The reason why is because for so long they have been taught that baptism is only ‘an outward sign of an inward change.’ Nowhere in the bible do we read of that teaching! In fact his very verse denies the false teaching! “Not the removal of dirt from the flesh” Peter says that it is not just an external cleansing. Our salvation is not external, to say that it is would be likening to the Pharisees! Remember? They cleaned the “outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside are full of robbery and self -indulgence.”(Matthew 5:20)! If our baptism is external then the inside (our spirit) is still filthy with sin! Since it’s not merely a profession of the faith already possessed by the individual, “but an appeal to God for a good conscience”our baptism is much more important than many of your “pastors” will let on! The text says that is an “appeal” to the Father to obtain a “good conscience”. This parallels over to Acts 22:16 where it says, “’Now why do you delay? Get up and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on His name,’”When we were baptized into Christ (Galatians 3:27) our sins are washed away! And lastly Peter said:

“through the resurrection of Jesus Christ”

How can our baptism be through the Lord’s resurrection? Let’s read Romans 6:3,4:

“Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death? Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through he glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.” As Christ was raised so are we! We are to live a new life, renewing our lives (Romans 12:2), and putting on His character (Galatians 5:22,23; 1 Peter 1:5-11). Since “baptism now saves you” have you been saved?

 

[JoeP222w]

I was having this discussion with a brother yesterday ! He asked me if I thought children went to heaven : So I gave him the verse that came to my mind and it was : Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven : So I said to him that a baby obviously has not been born again because he is just too young! I askef him if there were any verses that specifically state that a baby has a spirit : we could not find any : or verses that say babies go to heaven ! Both of us don't believe that babies go to hell though we could not find a single verse that specifically states this so there it is : what saist thou ?

The entry into Heaven is through Jesus Christ alone, by faith alone, by His grace alone. Regardless of age, the process is exactly the same: only through Christ.
John 14:6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.

Ephesians 2:8-10 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, (9) not a result of works, so that no one may boast. (10) For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Romans 3:10-12 as it is written: “None is righteous, no, not one; (11) no one understands; no one seeks for God. (12) All have turned aside; together they have become worthless; no one does good, not even one.”


Babies have a spirit:
Genesis 1:26-27 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.” (27) So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.


All human beings are born in Adam, i.e. all human beings are born with a sin nature. The natural position of man is condemnation, including babies. That is why one must be born again, born of the Spirit. If a person does not like the idea of being born in Adamic nature, then their disagreement is with God. If they do not like the federal representation of Adam, then they have no claim to being in Christ.

Romans 5:12-17 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— (13) for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. (14) Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come. (15) But the free gift is not like the trespass. For if many died through one man's trespass, much more have the grace of God and the free gift by the grace of that one man Jesus Christ abounded for many. (16) And the free gift is not like the result of that one man's sin. For the judgment following one trespass brought condemnation, but the free gift following many trespasses brought justification. (17) For if, because of one man's trespass, death reigned through that one man, much more will those who receive the abundance of grace and the free gift of righteousness reign in life through the one man Jesus Christ.


The Bible does not identify any age which one is "too young" to be born again. There is no definition in the Bible of an age of accountability before a person is considered sinful before God. A person is sinful before God by nature, including babies.

The dangerous thought that babies do not go to Hell is the fact that it is based on emotion and not on truth, and if it were true that babies automatically go to Heaven, then Christians should be the greatest proponents of abortion on the planet, because abortion would be the greatest method to fill Heaven. This is a most vile false teaching.

Romans 9:11-23 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— (12) she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” (13) As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.” (14) What shall we say then? Is there injustice on God's part? By no means! (15) For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” (16) So then it depends not on human will or exertion, but on God, who has mercy. (17) For the Scripture says to Pharaoh, “For this very purpose I have raised you up, that I might show my power in you, and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.” (18) So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (19) You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?” (21) Has the potter no right over the clay, to make out of the same lump one vessel for honorable use and another for dishonorable use? (22) What if God, desiring to show his wrath and to make known his power, has endured with much patience vessels of wrath prepared for destruction, (23) in order to make known the riches of his glory for vessels of mercy, which he has prepared beforehand for glory—

 

[RaymondG]

First of all, thank you for starting a thread written in normal type, without lots of capitals.
I complained to you about it once before, so I think it only fair to say now that I appreciate it.

I understand that you're referring to babies, toddlers or children who may die before they can hear the Gospel and respond to God's love.
Personally, I believe they would go to heaven, to be with God. The reason for this is mainly because God is love, 1 John 4:8, compassionate, Exodus 34:6, just, Genesis 18:25 and kind, merciful and all the other attributes of love described in 1 Corinthians 13:4-7.

I don't think it would be loving, fair or just to condemn a toddler for not having repented and responded to the Gospel when, through no fault of their own, they didn't live long enough to do so. A baby or toddler accused of that could, rightly, say "well why didn't you allow me to live long enough so that I could repent and hear about you".
I believe that this is true for any baby/child who dies from illness; even more so if the baby was killed/aborted by the actions of someone else. The killer might get sent to prison, have a chance to repent, become a Christian and go to heaven; it would be very unfair if the child, whose life he took, was sent to hell.

With this line of thinking, it would seem that it would be better to die young than to live and face temptation and the opportunity to see hell..... Kid murderers would, in fact, be doing people a big favor and it would be selfish of us to wish that a child lived longer just so that we could be happy, while opening them up to hellfire which few can/will escape.

I dont think there are easy ways in, or out...

 

[JoeP222w]

I don't think it would be loving, fair or just to condemn a toddler for not having repented and responded to the Gospel when, through no fault of their own, they didn't live long enough to do so. A baby or toddler accused of that could, rightly, say "well why didn't you allow me to live long enough so that I could repent and hear about you".

Romans 9:18-20 So then he has mercy on whomever he wills, and he hardens whomever he wills. (19) You will say to me then, “Why does he still find fault? For who can resist his will?” (20) But who are you, O man, to answer back to God? Will what is molded say to its molder, “Why have you made me like this?”

 

[JoeP222w]

Friend, many people will say many things on this topic, but the main problem here is that denominations still hold to the catholic idea of born in sin! Jesus said, "unless you believe that I am He you will die in your sins" therefore, if a human is born sinful and dies shortly thereafter, they did not have the opportunity to believe so they cannot be in heaven! But according to the truth we are born perfect because God himself made us in His image! To answer your dilemma, a baby would go to heaven due to their sinless nature.

So are you a strong supporter of abortion? That is what you position promotes. You are also promoting that grace can be demanded.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I was having this discussion with a brother yesterday ! He asked me if I thought children went to heaven : So I gave him the verse that came to my mind and it was : Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven : So I said to him that a baby obviously has not been born again because he is just too young! I askef him if there were any verses that specifically state that a baby has a spirit : we could not find any : or verses that say babies go to heaven ! Both of us don't believe that babies go to hell though we could not find a single verse that specifically states this so there it is : what saist thou ?

Children are of the kingdom of Heaven.

"But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 19:14).

Why would children have angels if they are not saved?

"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:10).

 

[RaymondG]

Children are of the kingdom of Heaven.

"But Jesus said, Suffer little children, and forbid them not, to come unto me: for of such is the kingdom of heaven." (Matthew 19:14).

Why would children have angels if they are not saved?

"Take heed that ye despise not one of these little ones; for I say unto you, That in heaven their angels do always behold the face of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 18:10).

So we are born saved and then lose salvation at a certain age?

 

[Apologetic_Warrior]

I was having this discussion with a brother yesterday ! He asked me if I thought children went to heaven : So I gave him the verse that came to my mind and it was : Except a man be born again he cannot enter into the kingdom of heaven : So I said to him that a baby obviously has not been born again because he is just too young! I askef him if there were any verses that specifically state that a baby has a spirit : we could not find any : or verses that say babies go to heaven ! Both of us don't believe that babies go to hell though we could not find a single verse that specifically states this so there it is : what saist thou ?

I saist that God can monergistically regenerate as many children as He so Chooses. I tend to think He chooses children of believers in Christ, however there is no Scripture that explicitly speaks to this question, so we only have implication, and left to trust in the tender mercies of God.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

So we are born saved and then lose salvation at a certain age?

Yes. This is what the Parable of the Prodigal Son is all about. We were once in the father's favor as a baby and when we grew up and went prodigal (By having the knowledge on our own to sin), we eventually in time then came back to the Lord (willing to repent or to seek the Lord's forgiveness) and be renewed (born again) and saved again back to the Father and his care.

For the father said two times in the Parable that his son was "dead" and is "alive again."

Now, how can he be alive again if he was never really dead physically?
Well, the parable is talking in spiritual terms (of course).
The prodigal son was spiritually dead when he was living in sin (i.e. when he was prodigal) and only when he came back home and when he repented (i.e. seeking forgiveness) was he said to be... "alive again" or "found."

 

[gideon123]

Brothers ...

with due rsspect.
you are becoming lost in words.

Do you honestly believe that Jesus would turn away children from the Kingdom of God?

???

If you dont know the answer to that question, then you need to go back and read the Book of Luke. You have not understood the heart of Christ.

Blessings!!

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Babies are saved. But if a believer later sins and does not repent, they are in danger spiritually.

For the children of the Kingdom were cast into outer darkness.