Do Calvinists believe in Once Saved Always Saved?

[Cary.Melvin]

Do Calvinists believe in Once Saved Always Saved?

Thanks,

 

[Imblessed]

yes, absolutely

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Do Calvinists believe in Once Saved Always Saved?

Thanks,

first, OSAS is a baptist formulation, not reformed. the consistent doctrine is either eternal security or perseverance of the saints for us.

check out:
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/topic/assurance.html

for lots of good links into the topic.

perhaps the most concise wording is from the WCF:

Chapter XVII
Of the Perseverance of the Saints

I. They, whom God has accepted in His Beloved, effectually called, and sanctified by His Spirit, can neither totally nor finally fall away from the state of grace, but shall certainly persevere therein to the end, and be eternally saved.[1]

II. This perseverance of the saints depends not upon their own free will, but upon the immutability of the decree of election, flowing from the free and unchangeable love of God the Father;[2] upon the efficacy of the merit and intercession of Jesus Christ,[3] the abiding of the Spirit, and of the seed of God within them,[4] and the nature of the covenant of grace:[5] from all which arises also the certainty and infallibility thereof.[6]

III. Nevertheless, they may, through the temptations of Satan and of the world, the prevalency of corruption remaining in them, and the neglect of the means of their preservation, fall into grievous sins;[7] and, for a time, continue therein:[8] whereby they incur God's displeasure,[9] and grieve His Holy Spirit,[10] come to be deprived of some measure of their graces and comforts,[11] have their hearts hardened,[12] and their consciences wounded;[13] hurt and scandalize others,[14] and bring temporal judgments upon themselves.[15]

from: http://www.crta.org/documents/wcf_with_proofs/indexf.html

 

[tigersnare]

Yes, we believe Christ's life and death on the Cross really did assure the salvation of all whom God calls his own.

T
U
L
I
P-Perseverance of the Saints

 

[Cary.Melvin]

Yes, we believe Christ's life and death on the Cross really did assure the salvation of all whom God calls his own.

T
U
L
I
P-Perseverance of the Saints

Ok, So Calvinists beleive that God's elect are assured salvation, Right?

If so, can one discern that they themselves are one of the elect?

 

[rmwilliamsll]

Ok, So Calvinists beleive that God's elect are assured salvation, Right?

If so, can one discern that they themselves are one of the elect?

the question of who is elect is hidden in the mystery of God and is one of those things we are counselled not to inquire into.

the traditional way, since Calvin, to ask a similiar question has been assurance of faith, since the WCF the wording has been assurance of salvation.

Chapter XVIII
Of Assurance of Grace and Salvation

I. Although hypocrites and other unregenerate men may vainly deceive themselves with false hopes and carnal presumptions of being in the favor of God, and estate of salvation[1] (which hope of theirs shall perish):[2] yet such as truly believe in the Lord Jesus, and love Him in sincerity, endeavouring to walk in all good conscience before Him, may, in this life, be certainly assured that they are in the state of grace,[3] and may rejoice in the hope of the glory of God, which hope shall never make them ashamed.[4]

II. This certainty is not a bare conjectural and probable persuasion grounded upon a fallible hope;[5] but an infallible assurance of faith founded upon the divine truth of the promises of salvation,[6] the inward evidence of those graces unto which these promises are made,[7] the testimony of the Spirit of adoption witnessing with our spirits that we are the children of God,[8] which Spirit is the earnest of our inheritance, whereby we are sealed to the day of redemption.[9]

III. This infallible assurance does not so belong to the essence of faith, but that a true believer may wait long, and conflict with many difficulties, before he be partaker of it:[10] yet, being enabled by the Spirit to know the things which are freely given him of God, he may, without extraordinary revelation in the right use of ordinary means, attain thereunto.[11] And therefore it is the duty of every one to give all diligence to make his calling and election sure,[12] that thereby his heart may be enlarged in peace and joy in the Holy Ghost, in love and thankfulness to God, and in strength and cheerfulness in the duties of obedience,[13] the proper fruits of this assurance; so far is it from inclining men to looseness.[14]

IV. True believers may have the assurance of their salvation divers ways shaken, diminished, and intermitted; as, by negligence in preserving of it, by falling into some special sin which wounds the conscience and grieves the Spirit; by some sudden or vehement temptation, by God's withdrawing the light of His countenance, and suffering even such as fear Him to walk in darkness and to have no light:[15] yet are they never so utterly destitute of that seed of God, and life of faith, that love of Christ and the brethren, that sincerity of heart, and conscience of duty, out of which, by the operation of the Spirit, this assurance may, in due time, be revived;[16] and by the which, in the mean time, they are supported from utter despair.[17]

it has been an area of much discussion.
you can get into it with a sunday school class i taught on the issues of assurance of faith at:
http://surveyofcalvinsinstitutes.50megs.com/lesson13_essay.html

the homepage for the class is at:
http://surveyofcalvinsinstitutes.50megs.com/


the class was well received and i think does justice to a complex and difficult topic. as an introduction it will certainly be more than most people want to know *grin*

.....

 

[Cary.Melvin]

the question of who is elect is hidden in the mystery of God and is one of those things we are counselled not to inquire into.

So a Calvinist has no personal assurance of salvation, because they themselves do not know if they are one of the elect or not? Am I right on that?

 

[Beoga]

doesn't scripture teach that we can know that we are saved?

 

[Imblessed]

rmwilliamsII: the question of who is elect is hidden in the mystery of God and is one of those things we are counselled not to inquire into.

Cary.Melvin: So a Calvinist has no personal assurance of salvation, because they themselves do not know if they are one of the elect or not? Am I right on that?

I think what he meant was that we cannot know who the other elect are. We cannot look at a person who is a professed atheist and say "oh he's elect,so he'll change his mind" or "he's not elect, so don't bother preaching to him". We do not know. We also cannot look at a professed christian and say "he's elect" or "he's not really elect", because we do not know the heart of a man, only God does. There are many who call themselves christian who are not really....

As for personally, I think that if you have accepted jesus as your personal savior, then it's pretty obvious that you are "elect". One does not accept Jesus, follow Jesus, etc etc, then die and have God say, "oh, sorry, I know you believed, but you weren't one of the elect..." Also I think that if a person is not "elect", they could think they have accepted Jesus, but then "fall away", or be led astray. I've seen alot of atheists on this board who claim that they were most definately christians, even very active christians before they became atheist.
Of course this is my personal opinion, which may or may not be held by others here. I am a fairly new Calvinist, so some of my views may not be quite what "calvinists" believe.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

As for personally, I think that if you have accepted jesus as your personal savior, then it's pretty obvious that you are "elect". One does not accept Jesus, follow Jesus, etc etc, then die and have God say, "oh, sorry, I know you believed, but you weren't one of the elect..." Also I think that if a person is not "elect", they could think they have accepted Jesus, but then "fall away", or be led astray. I've seen alot of atheists on this board who claim that they were most definately christians, even very active christians before they became atheist.
Of course this is my personal opinion, which may or may not be held by others here. I am a fairly new Calvinist, so some of my views may not be quite what "calvinists" believe.

But doesn't this bring you back to having no personal assurance of salvation? How does a Calvinist know that they themselves will persevere to the end without "falling away" or being led astray sometime between now and the end of their life like the people you are speaking?

 

[Foundthelight]

So a Calvinist has no personal assurance of salvation, because they themselves do not know if they are one of the elect or not? Am I right on that?

This question was addressed by the Canons of Dort as follows:

Article 12 - The Assurance of Election
​

The elect in due time, though in various stages and in different measure, are made certain of this their eternal and unchangeable election to salvation. They attain this assurance, however, not by inquisitively prying into the hidden and deep things of God, but by observing in themselves, with spiritual joy and holy delight, the unfailing fruits of election pointed out in the Word of God - such as a true faith in Christ, a childlike fear of God, a godly sorrow for their sins, and a hungering and thirsting after righteousness.

Only God knows what lies in the heart of another person but, if you feel in your heart faith, repentence and a thirsting for righteousness you can be assured you are of the elect. You may and probably will still sin. You will feel sorrow for that sin and try not to sin in the future. Some sins are addictions, such as pornagraphy and are recurring. This does not change the assurance of your election. Those who sin and do not feel remorse are fooling themselves if they think they are of the elect.

Article 13 - The Value of This Assurance
​

The awareness and assurance of this election provide the children of God with greater reason for daily humbling themselves before God, for adoring the depth of His mercies, for cleansing themselves, and for fervently loving Him in turn who first so greatly loved them. It is therefore not true at all that this doctrine of election and the reflection on it makes them lax in observing the commands of God or falsely secure. In the just judgment of God, this usually happens to those who rashly presume to have the grace of election, or idly and boldly chatter about it, but refuse to walk in the ways of the elect.

Article 13 shows the shortcoming of the traditional free-will definition of OSAS where you say a sinners prayer, state your supposed faith and bingo you are saved. Think if it as buying an insurance policy. The problem is that this policy doesn't work if you don't have a true faith in your heart.

There are many also who do good works and are model Christians, yet have no faith in their hearts.

The key thing is if you love God and want to please him.

 

[St. Worm2]

So a Calvinist has no personal assurance of salvation, because they themselves do not know if they are one of the elect or not? Am I right on that?

Hi CM, all Christians are under the command of God to make sure that they are in the faith, and that on a regular basis. And the Bible clearly tells us that we can know that we are in the faith (and how we can know it). That does not mean, sadly, that some are not deceived (see Matthew 7:21-23).

Here are some verses that talk about the assurance of salvation from St. Paul, St. Peter, and St. John.

The Spirit Himself testifies with our spirit that we are children of God. Romans 8:16

Test yourselves to see if you are in the faith; examine yourselves! 2 Corinthians 13:5

Brethren, be all the more diligent to make certain about His calling and choosing you. 2 Peter 1:10

These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life. 1 John 5:13

Yours in Christ,
David

 

[FreeGrace]

But doesn't this bring you back to having no personal assurance of salvation? How does a Calvinist know that they themselves will persevere to the end without "falling away" or being led astray sometime between now and the end of their life like the people you are speaking?

Hi there , Speaking personally I believe that trusting in God alone not in myself at all He will bring ALL his people through to the end. Anyone Calvinist or not who trusts in Christ alone will persevre to the end because of Gods promise to any sinner who completely rests secure in the finished work of Christ.

 

[Imblessed]

But doesn't this bring you back to having no personal assurance of salvation? How does a Calvinist know that they themselves will persevere to the end without "falling away" or being led astray sometime between now and the end of their life like the people you are speaking?

Like I said, I'm a pretty new Calvinist and still figuring this stuff out. Until about 2 months ago, i did believe you could loose salvation.

I know that I myself am "elect"(and I'm not trying to say that i'm better by using the term) because I was raised christian, and for quite a while after I left home, I did absolutely nothing about this supposed faith. God drew me back to Him just a few years ago, and I know it was not me who did that, but God who drew me. Was I saved before, when I did nothing about my faith? I believe I was, because God knew He was going to draw me back to Him to lead a christain life. I now believe I was 'saved' from before time began, but this is a new thing I have come to know as I read and study the bible and interact with other christians.
I cannot, and will not make judgments on others though. I do not know the things that caused those christains I mentioned to become atheist, I can only believe that their "faith" was not real because it did not last. I have to put my complete trust in God to "finish the good works He began in me". I do not believe He can fail to hold on to someone.

 

[cygnusx1]

All I can say is give me a figure that you think represents how many Jesus first saved and then lost !


BTW , If the figure is different to Zero , try again

 

[BBAS 64]

Good Day Cary



I will take the historical approach to the teaching of preserverance. As Augustine wrote and taught to the believers in Africa and I will para phase it here.

Once a person is elected unto salvation, though the work of Christ that is done in accordance with the will of the Father and determined before the foundations of the world for it was then he was the sacrifice for God's elect as his gift to his own.

Preservering is much the same a gift, as the first Adam fell so to do we. Are falling is only repaired though Christ by Christ in accordance to the will of the Father. So too is our perservering we do so though Him and by Him, when He fails to sit at the right hand of the Father, so to will we.

P -- perseverence of the saints. Those people God chooses cannot lose their salvation; they will continue to believe. If they fall away, it will be only for a time.


For His Glory Alone!

Bill

 

[tigersnare]

, when He fails to sit at the right hand of the Father, so to will we.

For His Glory Alone!

Bill

Nice!

 

[johnny_redeemed]

Let me weight in on this topic.



The Bible teaches VERY clearly that a person CAN know that they are saved. (If you do not agree I will provide biblical references.



BUT, the question is HOW can we know this. The Bible say we can know, but how. Well, I think the answer to this question is the same for Calvinist and non-Calvinists alike. That is if you have faith in Jesus Christ you can KNOW you are saved.





That is my two cents.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

Hi there , Speaking personally I believe that trusting in God alone not in myself at all He will bring ALL his people through to the end. Anyone Calvinist or not who trusts in Christ alone will persevre to the end because of Gods promise to any sinner who completely rests secure in the finished work of Christ.

It still sounds like this salvation is contingent on you doing something. In this case, trusting in Christ. Is this trusting in Christ that you have at this time in your life because of Christ's genuine saving graces because you are one of the elect or is a result of a self decieving faith?

I can't see how the eternal security of the elect can really be applyed to anything beyond the theoretical. Outside of a personal revelation of God, How would anyone really know that they themself were part of the elect at any one time?

 

[johnny_redeemed]

It still sounds like this salvation is contingent on you doing something. In this case, trusting in Christ. Is this trusting in Christ that you have at this time in your life because of Christ's genuine saving graces because you are one of the elect or is a result of a self decieving faith?

I can't see how the eternal security of the elect can really be applyed to anything beyond the theoretical. Outside of a personal revelation of God, How would anyone really know that they themself were part of the elect at any one time?

As Calvinists we believe that ONLY the elect can have faith in Christ. So if you have faith in Christ you are one of the elect. There are only two people that know if you have real faith, 1) God and 2) You.

Praise God I have faith in Him

That is why ALL praise is due God. If I could have faith apart from God praise would be due me because I have faith in and of myself.