Do Baptists teach the Doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved?

[daveleau]

I hope you have a Merry Christmas too, Cary.

 

[Keith Van Horn]

happy Holy Day

 

[mesue]

Is this representative of 'Once Saved Always Saved' theology?

I have also heard the formula 'Once Saved Always Saved, If You Don't Fall Away'. Is this formula more accurate of what OSAS theology teaches?

No, and no.
Are my fast answers. I already posted the long answer

 

[Keith Van Horn]

i know that i can never lose my eternal life, because it is eternal. Plus God lives within me, he would not allow somthing in him to fall away.

 

[Tenorvoice]

To not beleive in OSAS, it to believe that Christ's work here on earth was in vain. For He died One Death, to pay for the sins of the world, past, present and future. The work is finished, hence why Christ Himself said "It is finished" Also Christ Himself stated that no one can take you out of the Fathers hand, that even means you. You are eternally secure, and have nothing to worry about. He paid in full for everyone that would accept the FREE Gift of salvation by repenting of their sins, and confessing them to God through prayer, and seeing them the same way that GOd the Father does. For their is NO Salvation outside of Jesus Christ Himself, for No man comes unto the Father but through Him.

Now you can become what is known as a Carnal Christian (or backslidden), but there is always hope, if you repent from your rebellion from God and quit running that He will accept you into His loving arms once again. Just like the Prodigal son. He is looking for you to return one day. The sooner that you do the better. And even if you do not here on earth you will be with Him in Heaven if you are truely saved.

Last but not lest the best way to know that you, or anyother paerson for that matter (tho' none of us really know about anyone else, other than God Himself) is to look for the Fruit of the Spirit, for only a good tree will produce good fruit.

 

[Cary.Melvin]

To not beleive in OSAS, it to believe that Christ's work here on earth was in vain. For He died One Death, to pay for the sins of the world, past, present and future. The work is finished, hence why Christ Himself said "It is finished" Also Christ Himself stated that no one can take you out of the Fathers hand, that even means you. You are eternally secure, and have nothing to worry about. He paid in full for everyone that would accept the FREE Gift of salvation by repenting of their sins, and confessing them to God through prayer, and seeing them the same way that GOd the Father does. For their is NO Salvation outside of Jesus Christ Himself, for No man comes unto the Father but through Him.

Now you can become what is known as a Carnal Christian (or backslidden), but there is always hope, if you repent from your rebellion from God and quit running that He will accept you into His loving arms once again. Just like the Prodigal son. He is looking for you to return one day. The sooner that you do the better. And even if you do not here on earth you will be with Him in Heaven if you are truely saved.

Last but not lest the best way to know that you, or anyother paerson for that matter (tho' none of us really know about anyone else, other than God Himself) is to look for the Fruit of the Spirit, for only a good tree will produce good fruit.

In OSAS does it mean that once you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you cannot change your mind at a later time (i.e. relinquishing your free will at that point) and decide to reject Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? I know that Calvinists (And Reformed Baptists) believe in Irresitable Grace that would be an explination of this, but do non-reformed Baptists accept the doctrine of Irresistable Grace?

 

[cygnusx1]

I am curious here , there is a Baptist denomination that is called 'Free-will Baptist' .......... yes they are Arminian .


Now how would a free-will baptist answer the OP ?

surely a Free-will Baptist would be strongly opposed to OSAS ??

I have never met a FWB , i think it is an American denomination , we have the general Baptists as opposed to the Particular baptists in the UK .
The General Baptists believe in a General atonement , and Particular baptists belive in a Limited or definite atonement. C H Spurgeon was a Particular Baptist.

 

[TheMilkman]

When I was a Baptist, my pastor would tell us the "once saved, always saved stuff." Even if they person deeply believed at that time, then if they strayed he would say "well they just weren't a Christian." That is just ludacris, but not so conhensadentily I am no longer a Baptist.

 

[cygnusx1]

I am curious here , there is a Baptist denomination that is called 'Free-will Baptist' .......... yes they are Arminian .


Now how would a free-will baptist answer the OP ?

surely a Free-will Baptist would be strongly opposed to OSAS ??

I have never met a FWB , i think it is an American denomination , we have the general Baptists as opposed to the Particular baptists in the UK .
The General Baptists believe in a General atonement , and Particular baptists belive in a Limited or definite atonement. C H Spurgeon was a Particular Baptist.

I did a search on the Free-will baptists , they believe in "Conditional Security" not OSAS !

here is an extract it is taken from another forum , notice how human Free-will is the fulcrum of salvation and damnation UNTIL YOU TRY TO GET RE-SAVED!!!!!

Free will baptists ..............


By "ordinary" Baptist, you are probably referring to "Southern" Baptists, the largest denomination of baptist groups. As Chuck quipped, "There a more 'flavors' of Baptists than [at] Baskin Robbins."

For the most part, baptist groups share several common doctrines. We are in agreement on the fundamentals of the faith, we believe the Bible teaches that the proper mode of baptism is by immersion, most practice some variety of congregational government.

Free Will Baptists have a few doctrinal distinctives. First, we practice Open Communion. A Christian does not have to be a member of our church or denomination to share in communion in one of our churches. If a person claims to be a believer, we permit that person to share in the communion service. Some baptist groups reserve this for only members of the local church or perhaps members of the association or denomination.

We also believe that the teaching of Jesus, in John 13:2-17, is a valid practice for today. Therefore, to illustrate the role of Christ's taking the form of a servant and as a practical example of humility, we follow the teaching of Jesus in Feetwashing.

If I then, your Lord and Teacher, have washed your feet, you also ought to wash one another's feet. For I have given you an example, that you should do as I have done to you. Most assuredly, I say to you, a servant is not greater than his master; nor is he who is sent greater than he who sent him. If you know these things, blessed are you if you do them. John 13:14-17

The other major doctrinal difference is our belief that the Bible teaches Conditional Security. Most baptists agree that a person has the freedom of will to accept or reject God's offer of salvation. We believe that a person maintains this freedom even after having been saved. This is in contrast to the Unconditional Security held by those who teach "Once Saved, Always Saved."

We believe that God enables a believer to remain faithful and there is every hope to expect a person to maintain the faith, but it is not a one-time decision. Freedom of the will is not lost when a person becomes a believer.

We are saved by faith and kept by faith. If a person chooses to turn away from God and reject the salvation that God has provided, God permits that choice.

According to Hebrews 6:4-6, we believe that the believer who goes to this extreme commits apostasy, an act of rejecting God that cannot be undone. While there is really no way for us to know when a person may have gone to this extreme, we still recognize that the Bible teaches that a believer may make "shipwreck" of faith (1 Tim. 1:19) and forfeit salvation.

For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame. Heb 6:4-6.

I hope this answers your question. If you have other questions or comments, this would be a good place to post them. We have several posters here who will be eager to respond.

............

I can only speak for myself here, and I suspect that there will be those here who will disagree, but based on the Hebrews text that BroDanny quoted, I don't believe that an individual who rejects his/her faith in Christ can be "re-saved".

It is impossible for them to renew themselves again to repentance if the turn from the faith. Also, the key here is turning from the faith, not just simply committing a sin, but decidedly, whole-heartedly, and independantly rejecting the savior they once had put their faith in.

...........

I went to school in the west and have never heard anyone preach or teach that you can be "re-saved". Do you know of FWB who preach & teach this?

The idea of repeated regeneration is an accusation that has been hurled at the Okla boys, and I enjoy rattling their cage about it. For the most part, the folks in the west reject the idea of being "re-saved" or repeated regeneration as strongly as you.

....................

I know some preachers that teach repeat regeneration. While RR say that you can lose your salvation and be “re-saved”, I understand y’all to be saying that once you lose your salvation, you can’t get it back, sort of an “OLAL”, once lost, always lost position. I don’t know if I agree with it. Don’t you think it is possible for someone to be raised in a Christian home, be saved, gradually backslide, crossing that fine line between saved / unsaved and lose salvation through the early adult years, reject Jesus and embrace the world or / and false religion for a period of time, and eventually through the Grace of God, find Jesus again, to be “re-saved” and gain their salvation back?

I do not consider myself a repeater, I don’t think you become unsaved everytime you sin and have to be “re-saved” because I think there is an area of Grace before you fall. Yet neither would I be OSAS or OLAL. I think the correct position is somewhere between the two extremes of RR and OSAS, I thought I was Reformed Arminian.


http://www.freebaptist.net/modules/...id=1630&start=0

 

[MrJim]

To not beleive in OSAS, it to believe that Christ's work here on earth was in vain. For He died One Death, to pay for the sins of the world, past, present and future. The work is finished, hence why Christ Himself said "It is finished" Also Christ Himself stated that no one can take you out of the Fathers hand, that even means you. You are eternally secure, and have nothing to worry about. He paid in full for everyone that would accept the FREE Gift of salvation by repenting of their sins, and confessing them to God through prayer, and seeing them the same way that GOd the Father does. For their is NO Salvation outside of Jesus Christ Himself, for No man comes unto the Father but through Him.

Now you can become what is known as a Carnal Christian (or backslidden), but there is always hope, if you repent from your rebellion from God and quit running that He will accept you into His loving arms once again. Just like the Prodigal son. He is looking for you to return one day. The sooner that you do the better. And even if you do not here on earth you will be with Him in Heaven if you are truely saved.

Last but not lest the best way to know that you, or anyother paerson for that matter (tho' none of us really know about anyone else, other than God Himself) is to look for the Fruit of the Spirit, for only a good tree will produce good fruit.

In the spirit of the season I was gonna sit this one out and then you hadda go and accuse me of believing that Christ's death is in vain . Christ's death is not in vain .

Absolutely not all baptists believe in OSAS and for every verse that says your salvation is in a lock box there's another that says "...if ye continue..."

There is debate on this topic simply because there is enough evidence on both sides that give validity to each side.

I agree with LL on this one. Put a sticky for both positions. BTW historical anabaptists fervently reject OSAS.

Funny how we share a forum and disagree on this article of faith

 

[Diane_Windsor]

Do Baptists teach the Doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved?

Yes.

DIANE

 

[12volt_man]

Do Baptists teach the Doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved?

Most do, although I'm sure that there are some who don't.

It's non-essential, so we need to give one another the liberty to disagree.

If so, what does the doctrine of Once Saved Always Saved teach?

Pretty mush what it sounds like. Once you're saved, you can't lose your salvation.

And what scripture passages are used to support this doctrine?

Thanks,

There are seven Biblical reasons why one cannot lose his salvation:

1. Nothing can separate you from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus your Lord.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. (Romans 8:38-39)
Neither death nor anything that happens after death, or anything that happens while you're living can separate you from God's love. If there were no other verse in the Bible that deals with eternal security, this one covers the base.



2. When you are saved, you are made perfect forever.

For by one offering He [Jesus] hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14)
When Jesus died on the cross, He saved you forever. Jesus offered one sacrifice for sin forever. If you ever lost your salvation, in order for you to be saved again, Jesus would have to die again. By one offering He has perfected forever those who were sanctified.


3. Our Lord always finishes what He begins.

Being confident of this very thing, that He [God] which hath begun a good work in you will perform it until the day of Jesus Christ. (Philippians 1:6)
Let me tell you what the Holy Spirit of God does for your salvation. First, He convicted you of sin. Second, He converted you. And the Convictor and the Converter is also the Completer. If God fails to finish what He's begun God has failed and He cannot fail.



4. You are predestined to be like Jesus.

For whom He [God] did foreknow, He also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Romans 8:29)
God saw you before this world was put in space. He saw you repent of your sin and ask Jesus to save you. And when God saw that, not only did He foreknow it, but also He predestinated it. If it is settled in eternity how can it be undone in time?


5. You are in Christ.

Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17)
You are in Christ just like Noah was in the ark. The ark was a picture of Jesus and when Noah went into that ark God shut the door. Noah may have fallen down a lot of times in that ark, but he never fell out of it. Your security is not in a place, it is in a Person and His name is Jesus. And if you're in Jesus, you're secure and if you're not in Jesus you're not secure.


6. You already have eternal life.

Heareth My word, and believeth on him that sent Me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. (John 5:24)
Everlasting life is not something you get when you die. Everlasting life is something you get when you receive Jesus. If I have everlasting life, when can it end? Suppose I had it 10 years and it ended. Did I have everlasting life? No, I had a 10-year life. Whatever you have, if you ever lose it, whatever it was it wasn't everlasting.


7. The Lord Jesus Christ is ever interceding for you.

I pray for them: I pray not for the world, but for them which thou hast given Me; for they are Thine. (John 17:9)
Jesus also prayed: "I pray not that thou shouldest take them out of the world, but that thou shouldest keep them from the evil...Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word" (John 17:15, 20). Say your name in that verse because Jesus prayed for you! Has Jesus ever prayed a prayer that wasn't answered? No, not one (see John 11:42 and Hebrews 7:25).

 

[jochanaan]

Let me play "devil's advocate" here. What of those who, after a sincere conversion including a life-change and evidence of the Holy Spirit's presence, suddenly or not so suddenly turn away from God? Not mere backsliding but an active renunciation of Jesus, God, the Bible, and so on. I agree that this seems preposterous; but as long as we are humans created in God's image, it is possible. Why, if God were just, would He allow them into heaven if they no longer show evidence of the heart-cleansing that comes with salvation?

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." --Hebrews 6:4-6

 

[daveleau]

In OSAS does it mean that once you have accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior you cannot change your mind at a later time (i.e. relinquishing your free will at that point) and decide to reject Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior? I know that Calvinists (And Reformed Baptists) believe in Irresitable Grace that would be an explination of this, but do non-reformed Baptists accept the doctrine of Irresistable Grace?

If someone did that, then I would think 1 John 2:19 would come into play. That would mean that their heart may not have really accepted and believed. That would be like having head knowledge of Christ, but not accepting Him. I cannot say X person that turned away was not of pure heart, because that is between them and God. But, it is probable that they never truly believed and simply misunderstood or didn't know what the truth was or what Christ's sacrifice was. 2 Peter 2:20-22 speaks about this as well. This talks about people who hear the Gospel yet return to their old ways rather than accepting Christ.

An anology is Peter in Scripture. Did he lose his salvation when he denied Christ and then regain it upon believing again? No. He was saved the whole time and was in grief afterwards because the Holy Spirit within him convicted him of his wrongdoing.

God bless you,
Dave

 

[cygnusx1]

Let me play "devil's advocate" here. What of those who, after a sincere conversion including a life-change and evidence of the Holy Spirit's presence, suddenly or not so suddenly turn away from God? Not mere backsliding but an active renunciation of Jesus, God, the Bible, and so on. I agree that this seems preposterous; but as long as we are humans created in God's image, it is possible. Why, if God were just, would He allow them into heaven if they no longer show evidence of the heart-cleansing that comes with salvation?

"For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, and have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, if they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame." --Hebrews 6:4-6

a bigger problem is how those who advocate falling from salvation on the basis of Free-Will , are often forced to accept free-will cannot account for the situation where these apostates CANNOT COME BACK!

 

[DeaconDean]

I don't know what other Baptist preach, but I preach Once Saved, Always Saved. And my basis is on John 10:28-29.

 

[strengthinweakness]

Hmmm... the question of "Once Saved Always Saved"... Well, I am an historic Baptist (for information on historic Baptist beliefs, go to http://www.founders.org/), and as such, I do believe in the eternal security of the Christian. However, I think that the teaching of the "Perseverance of the Saints" is a better way to understand the security of the believer than "Once Saved Always Saved." Some Baptists preach "OSAS" as if one merely has to pray a prayer, accept and understand that "Jesus died for you," and then, that person is saved from God's wrath and eternal punisment in Hell-- no matter what that person does, regardless of whether or not he (or she) shows any true fruit of being a believer. This is a terrible, unBiblical way to represent (or misrepresent, really) the eternal security of true believers in Jesus Christ. Christians are not saved by good works, but we are saved unto good works. If we have no real desire to obey God and do good to others, then we need to seriously examine ourselves and ask whether we are, in fact, truly Christians at all. Now, most (if not all) believers do go through "up" and "down" times in their walks with God, but if, over a prolonged period of time, a professed Christian lives in a general, uncaring, defiant pattern of unrepentant sin, then at least, it is crucial for that person to seriously examine, and deeply think about, the actual authenticity of his (or her) salvation. However, as it is sometimes preached and portrayed, the teaching of "Once Saved Always Saved" does not encourage this kind of deep thought and examination of one's life and moral choices. "OSAS" can lead one to think that a mere prayer prayed is all the evidence that is needed for one's salvation.

The doctrine of the "Perseverance of the Saints" is more Biblically accurate, though, in that it teaches that true believers in Jesus Christ will perservere in fighting sin in this life. They will persevere by the grace of God and through the indwelling power of the Holy Spirit. God will lead them to persevere. He brought them to faith, and He will keep them in faith-- and not merely a faith of "concepts accepted and agreed to" (such as God created the world, inspired the Bible, sent His son for sinners, etc.), but a faith wherein those concepts are actually living, burning realities in the believer's life which make a difference in his (or her) life, compared to the life of a non-believer. A professing Christian may fall back and live like a non-believer for a while, but if that person is a true Christian, then he (or) she will be seriously grieved and unhappy in that life, at least at times, and eventually, that person will return to a Godly life. God will bring that person back to a life which pleases Him, because He leads true believers to persevere in the faith.

Not, of course, that professing believers in a pattern of sin should ever simply "wait" for God to lead them back to Godly living. We are never to continue on in sin, so that grace may later abound. This is testing God and is an abuse of His kindness and patience.

As far as "Once Saved Always Saved," though, I encourage and exhort all Baptists to carefully think about the effects of such teaching, at least in how it is often carelessly reperesented to believers and non-believers. Teaching the "Perseverance of the Saints," would be more Biblically accurate, in terms of the real nature of eternal security, and I think that it would also lead to more serious, Godly living on the part of more Christians. Our eternal security is as "equally secure" in the "POTS" teaching as it is in "OSAS," but as I have seen it, "Once Saved Always Saved" can encourage carelessness and not taking the Christian life seriously, whereas "Perseverance of the Saints" encourages each and every saint to... well.... persevere!

 

[HumbleMan]

I'm still trying to wrap my mind around the OSAS doctrine. I recently came out of a denomination that basically taught that you better repent every night, in case you did something to lose your salvation during that day. It is also a historical "holiness" denom.

I've believed for a long time in once saved, almost impossible to lose your salvation, and I'm slowly coming around to the OSAS position. I just have a little difficulty with teachers/preachers who throw out a verse here and there to justify this. The NT wasn't written in chapter and verse format, but as a series of letters. I find it hard sometimes to find someone who can thematically explain something.

 

[mesue]

...
An anology is Peter in Scripture. Did he lose his salvation when he denied Christ and then regain it upon believing again? No. He was saved the whole time and was in grief afterwards because the Holy Spirit within him convicted him of his wrongdoing.

God bless you,
Dave

excellent analogy!!

 

[Keith Van Horn]

nice points