Do atheists believe in objective morality?

[allhart]

I'm confused because I don't see a point to this post.

You said we hadn't done this sort of stuff in labs. I was just showing you that we have. I really don't understand why you responded with ... whatever that is.

In fact I'm pretty sure that first sentence isn't actually proper English... I'm battling to discern some meaning from it.

That is really the point......Thought or your ability to discern Space, time and matter in the first cause! All the complex elements to which allows us a laboratory in the first place then to allow the ability to create life from lifeless mass? Thought is SYNCHRONIZED ideas and events to which we build. To how things are built. In-like the design of plants vs pests? The plant that has toxins to prevent consumption from the start or it couldn't have survived! So thought plays out in the universe as well, NO?

Look at computer programing and the digital worlds that are created? A world within a designer/programmer inscriptions or information that has made the rules which the program lives by!!

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

That is really the point......Thought or your ability to discern Space, time and matter in the first cause! All the complex elements to which allows us a laboratory in the first place then to allow the ability to create life from lifeless mass? Thought is SYNCHRONIZED ideas and events to which we build. To how things are built. In-like the design of plants vs pests? The plant that has toxins to prevent consumption from the start or it couldn't have survived! So thought plays out in the universe as well, NO?

Now you're shifting the goalposts though. Your initial post I responded to was about complexity from randomness and how this has never been demonstrated in a lab. I provided you with an example of just that occurring in a lab and now you're moving to something else.

I don't get it. You're trying to change the topic of discussion.

You're now moving to another topic that we will probably never know the answers to. In fact we will never know the answers to the origins of life on this planet because we weren't there. We can however create viable explanations for the origins of life on this planet. Which we have done. In a lab. Do you disagree that this is a viable explanation?

 

[allhart]

Now you're shifting the goalposts though. Your initial post I responded to was about complexity from randomness and how this has never been demonstrated in a lab. I provided you with an example of just that occurring in a lab and now you're moving to something else.

I don't get it. You're trying to change the topic of discussion.

You're now moving to another topic that we will probably never know the answers to. In fact we will never know the answers to the origins of life on this planet because we weren't there. We can however create viable explanations for the origins of life on this planet. Which we have done. In a lab. Do you disagree that this is a viable explanation?

All meaningful or legitimate discussions are truly based on Origin, meaning, morality and destiny. Christians origin is based on the proclamation Of God in the Bible,but other people can't have a truly meaningful conversation with no explanation of origin. Can't know meaning, morality and destiny if you don't know where you come from. Can't have meaning if everything is based on space x matter equals chance

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

All meaningful or legitimate discussions are truly based on Origin, meaning, morality and destiny. Christians origin is based on the proclamation Of God in the Bible,but other people can't have a truly meaningful conversation with no explanation of origin. Can't know meaning, morality and destiny if you don't know where you come from. Can't have meaning if everything is based on space x matter equals chance

We came from a magical spell that we send back to the beginning of the universe. Ofcourse we are unable to do the spell right now but we will figure out how to cast it later and send it to the past to create our universe.

Soo..Now we both have equally useless assumptions of where we came from, now we're able to have a meaningfull or legitimate discussion?

The point is you claimed we could not replicate what might have happend, you where shown we could. Now you want to retreat back to the next gap in knowledge? do you not see anything wrong with that? (atleast acknowledge that your previous gap was filled.)

 

[allhart]

We came from a magical spell that we send back to the beginning of the universe. Ofcourse we are unable to do the spell right now but we will figure out how to cast it later and send it to the past to create our universe.

Soo..Now we both have equally useless assumptions of where we came from, now we're able to have a meaningfull or legitimate discussion?

The point is you claimed we could not replicate what might have happend, you where shown we could. Now you want to retreat back to the next gap in knowledge? do you not see anything wrong with that? (atleast acknowledge that your previous gap was filled.)

Like I said, you can look at it as a computer programmer in a virtual world! Now is the programmer a part of the digital information or is He outside of it all?

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

Like I said, you can look at it as a computer programmer in a virtual world! Now is the programmer a part of the digital information or is He outside of it all?

How the heck does this have ANYTHING to do with your past post.

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

All meaningful or legitimate discussions are truly based on Origin, meaning, morality and destiny. Christians origin is based on the proclamation Of God in the Bible,but other people can't have a truly meaningful conversation with no explanation of origin. Can't know meaning, morality and destiny if you don't know where you come from. Can't have meaning if everything is based on space x matter equals chance

No it is just you're trying to shift from one entire scientific discipline to another here without so much as a thought.

Where the rest of it came from belongs to another theory, not this one. That is another topic. Not this one. Lets try to stay on topic and not derail into some first cause argument. You didn't ask about first cause. You asked about complexity from randomness. I have demonstrated that. Read the article and tell me whether or not you agree that this is a viable explanation for the origins of life. Ordered molecular structures from randomness.

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

How the heck does this have ANYTHING to do with your past post.

I see I'm not the only person that is confused about it

 

[allhart]

How the heck does this have ANYTHING to do with your past post.

Look there is a design to the universe, an a complexity to it all that took some thought for all things to exist and coexist! A complexity to it all that is much bigger than I! For things to come together synchronized. I have excepted that there is someone who put it together for us by all the evidence that points to a designer and the Bible that proclaims it! To which rationally makes sense even thought it to much for others to believe or have faith. I can't see the rational explanation on evidence that is ever changing by scientists that are looking to periodical evidence through a micro-scope at the entire universe! I don't have that much faith! The universe is to majestic, grand and complex to have it "ALL" come together by (space x matter = chance)

P.S. Furthermore everything bad or good without God is vain or meaningless. To come to the end of ones life and have no say, it was all for nothing.......To possibly have lived about 27375 day and to only be forgotten and rotten in a grave! Why do you even bother educating yourself?

 

[BrianOnEarth]

You merely have a different definition of what moral is.

Christendom believes that the rewards and punishments of life come after death; when an unjust things occur on this world, when there is an 'immoral' thing, it will be dealt with at the end.

That is the coherent response Believers have been making to this argument for thousands of years.

I fail to see the relevance. Are you saying that God's creation of this arena and all things in it and all the harm that follows is justified by a later reward in heaven?

Sounds a little like [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] fighting.

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

Look there is a design to the universe, an a complexity to it all that took some thought for all things to exist and coexist!

You can't make a claim like that without proof.

 

[allhart]

You can't make a claim like that without proof.

Look by what or who's authority do you except science proclamations? To which you skip over origin right to meaning? Your intent is prior to content? You are being bias from the start Where does atoms come from? Where does energy come from? Where does or did the basic building blocks to all matter derive itself..... where did it come from? Don't tell me it just was and it just is that it always existed? Then I will have to say we can't have a meaningful rational discussion! Talking irrationally about something that came from nothing or it all ways just was! See, we can't even have a meaningful discussion on the boards without synchronized thought and structure of words and sentencing! To which people are always complaining to me about! Who created you, your mom, right? Well who created your mom, your grandmother, right? Where did the start come from? Some one had to start the creation, jump start creation, right?

 

[Jane_the_Bane]

Look by what or who's authority do you except science proclamations?

It's not a question of authority (unless you are speaking about professional competence).

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

Look by what or who's authority do you except science proclamations? To which you skip over origin right to meaning? Your intent is prior to content? You are being bias from the start Where does atoms come from? Where does energy come from? Where does or did the basic building blocks to all matter derive itself..... where did it come from? Don't tell me it just was and it just is that it always existed? Then I will have to say we can't have a meaningful rational discussion! Talking irrationally about something that came from nothing or it all ways just was! You can't even have a meaningful discussion on the boards without synchronized structure on words and sentencing! To which people are always complaining to me about! Who created you, your mom, right? Well who created your mom,grandmother? Where did the start come from? Some one had to start the creation to jump start creation, right?

To generate theories regarding the origins of life on this planet you don't need to know where all this stuff comes from. It just has to be there.

Where it comes from is considered by those that have expertise in that field. I don't have any expertise in that field so I leave those investigations and even the interpretation of their findings up to them.

It doesn't mean these things aren't considered it just means they're considered by someone else because no one human can comprehend it all. We compartmentalise research. This is perfectly logical. It is how we have gotten where we are now.

Ironically we do the same thing with discussions. We compartmentalise them by giving them topics. You know... like complexity from randomness being demonstrated in a lab... that is a topic. You claimed there was nothing ever done in a lab to demonstrate complexity developing from randomness and I gave you evidence that there has indeed been laboratory work in that field. You then ignored the topic and began discussing some stuff about first causes that isn't related to the discussion... which I got confused about and here we are.

So again do you not consider that study a viable explanation of the origins of life on this planet?

 

[Exiledoomsayer]

Look there is a design to the universe, an a complexity to it all that took some thought for all things to exist and coexist! A complexity to it all that is much bigger than I! For things to come together synchronized. I have excepted that there is someone who put it together for us by all the evidence that points to a designer and the Bible that proclaims it! To which rationally makes sense even thought it to much for others to believe or have faith. I can't see the rational explanation on evidence that is ever changing by scientists that are looking to periodical evidence through a micro-scope at the entire universe! I don't have that much faith! The universe is to majestic, grand and complex to have it "ALL" come together by (space x matter = chance)

P.S. Furthermore everything bad or good without God is vain or meaningless. To come to the end of ones life and have no say, it was all for nothing.......To possibly have lived about 27375 day and to only be forgotten and rotten in a grave! Why do you even bother educating yourself?

How does this justify that you have no interest in learning how it might have happend? Even if somebody shows you how something works you just seem to ignore it and move on the next thing you do not understand.

And again, how this this have anything to do with your previous posts. Stick to some kind of topic dont dance around like that you've gone from "how did life start" to "where did the universe come from" to "Whats the meaning of life" stick to a topic.

 

[allhart]

It's not a question of authority (unless you are speaking about professional competence).

Yes authority. Lets ask Ourselves can you verify all scientific theories. Did you verfiy that water boils at 212F or that the moon is 60,000 miles from the earth or that the sun is in the center of the our universe/solar system. By who's authority do except all proclamations, by the authority given, right? Scientist, Historians and Mathematicians, Right? Well when you want to find out about God you go to the authority to whom knows, scholars and the evidence ,right? http://www.repentandturn.com/uploads/Manuscripts__Archaeology__Prophecy__Statistics_1_.pdf

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

How does this justify that you have no interest in learning how it might have happend? Even if somebody shows you how something works you just seem to ignore it and move on the next thing you do not understand.

And again, how this this have anything to do with your previous posts. Stick to some kind of topic dont dance around like that you've gone from "how did life start" to "where did the universe come from" to "Whats the meaning of life" stick to a topic.

I agree a big +1.

Stick to a topic this leaping around is confusing.

allhart do you have an opinion on the article I posted?

 

[allhart]

How does this justify that you have no interest in learning how it might have happend? Even if somebody shows you how something works you just seem to ignore it and move on the next thing you do not understand.

And again, how this this have anything to do with your previous posts. Stick to some kind of topic dont dance around like that you've gone from "how did life start" to "where did the universe come from" to "Whats the meaning of life" stick to a topic.

Why you guys do. Ya'll jump from Orgin, to meaning ,to morality and destiny all day long Explain to us where our existence was derived from in a rational meaningful way? Without a designer? To say there's no synchronized thought behind your existence? Furthermore to which devalues your own worth!

 

[knowledgeIsPower]

Why you guys do. Ya'll jump from Orgin, to meaning ,to morality and destiny all day long Explain to us where our existence was derived from in a rational meaningful way? Without no synchronized thought behind it all?

Nobody knows. Not you, not me, not anyone on this forum. Besides unless any of us are cosmologists I highly doubt we will do justice to the theories that exist already.

Also as to "you guys do" I think my confusion is evidence enough that I am not used to people that leap around introducing a new topic in every single post.

 

[allhart]

I agree a big +1.

Stick to a topic this leaping around is confusing.

allhart do you have an opinion on the article I posted?

How did matter derive itself without a designer?