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Featured Do aborted infants go to heaven?

Discussion in 'Debates on Abortion' started by Prisoner No. 6, Jun 9, 2019.

  1. Strong in Him

    Strong in Him I can do all things through Christ Supporter

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    No problem. :)
     
  2. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

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    “…they experience a natural bliss because of that. On that hung the theory of limbo since that isn't a bad state to exist eternally. I mean as long as one can't comprehend that there is a better one.”








    And where in the scripture is this “limbo” theory even alluded to?


    As for Sheol, that is another subject altogether but before the death and resurrection of Christ, according to the story of Lazarus and the rich man, (Lk. ) Sheol was divided into two compartments: The comfort side which is was also called Abraham’s Bosom or Paradise, where those who died in faith would be taken and await the day of redemption during which they would then be ushered into the direct presence of God in Heaven and then there was the torment side of Sheol, also known as Hell and as it is still called today. But today, there is only torment there since the “Paradise” side had already served its purpose. (Eph. 4:8-9)


    But before Christ, this “Paradise” side of Sheol would have been where David would have gone and where he would have be reunited with his son who died in infancy. But when Christ who ascended “took captivity captive” (Eph. 4:8-9) as it was written, and took all the spirits of the Old Testament saints to Heaven, what would have been the fate of those innocents to whom sin could not yet be imputed if they didn’t go to Heaven with the righteous who died before Christ had come to carry out his redemptive work?


    As far as scripture is concerned, there are only two places people can go when they die and that is either Heaven or Hell. There is no other place of which it speaks. So when babies and small children die, they can only go to Heaven because sin was never imputed to them due to their inability to comprehend right and wrong and inability to consciously choose between good and evil.


    It would be unthinkable to suggest that those countless innocents would be subject to being forever tormented in Hell; a place reserved only for those who choose wickedness over goodness, enmity against God rather than peace with Him, sin over holiness, and falsehood, over truth.

    That would make God out to be unjust, unmerciful, and cruel.
     
  3. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    The final end of unbaptized infants isn't revealed, hence this thread.

    How would they be in Abraham's bosom?

    Pretty cut and dry for most of us.

    Where is that in scripture?

    When it comes to things God hasn't revealed I try to keep an open mind.

    Whatever God does with children in the womb who have been denied their earthly life it will be good and just. It is good and just because God did it.

    Peace.
     
  4. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

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    “How would they be in Abraham's bosom?”


    Where else would a just God send those who died before reaching the age of accountability if He did not bring them into His direct presence before Christ?


    “Contenders Edge said:

    So when babies and small children die, they can only go to Heaven because sin was never imputed to them due to their inability to comprehend right and wrong and inability to consciously choose between good and evil.



    “Where is that in scripture?”



    The same question was asked concerning your “limbo” theory. But the scripture that gives the best support for babies and small children being granted access to Heaven when they die can once again be found in 2 Samuel 12:23. For further scriptural support, Jesus said of the little children brought to Him: “of such is the kingdom of heaven.” (Mt. 19:14)



    “When it comes to things God hasn't revealed I try to keep an open mind.”



    But is what you are keeping your mind open to consistent with what we know God has revealed to us concerning His character?
     
  5. Eloy Craft

    Eloy Craft Myth only points, Truth happened! Supporter

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    Yes but, I don't believe I have much knowledge about God's character compared to what it is. I will most likely be surprised and probably confused by what God reveals. That will be an invitation to enter a mystery and discover God anew. That will be awesome.
     
  6. Contenders Edge

    Contenders Edge Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Scripture says that we only “know in part” (1 Cor. 13:9) but the Bible still has much to say about the character and attributes of God which is why it is vitally important that we know the Word He has given us well lest we find ourselves being led astray by doctrines that make God out to be what He is not.
     
  7. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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  8. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't put much stock in gnostic, mystical experiences that can't really be tested.
     
  9. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    The sheer volume of these accounts available to us now are a test of sorts. The massive changes in the lives of those who had an NDE is an important test as well.

    I highly recommend this one:

    Howard Storm's Near-Death Experience

    He is on youtube as well......

     
  10. Albion

    Albion Facilitator

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    The 'massive changes' in the lives of those who believe they experienced an NDE 'prove' nothing, although it is meaningful to them. The actual experiences may.

    While some of them are very difficult to dismiss or disprove, it is worth noticing that almost none of them teach us anything important about the afterlife.

    None of the questions that almost every one of us would love to have answered for certain is touched. Where do you "go" when you die, for instance? No, what they say, often with great fervor, is that there was consciousness after physical death. For some of us, that may be a breakthrough, but for many it's intriguing, but not much more. Sorta like crop circles. ;)
     
    Last edited: Oct 1, 2019
  11. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    I tend to think that if God wanted to make clear the final destination of the young and severely mentally handicapped that He would have in Scripture. I don't think He would rely unreliable near death experiences or visions to convey that sort of Truth to the world.
     
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  12. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    unless of course G-d DIDN'T want to make everything clear just from scriptures...... maybe G-d isn't entirely into Sola Scritura...... but wants us to learn from the creation as well as is exemplified by the parables..........


    Jhn 16:25

    These things have I spoken unto you in proverbs: but the time cometh, when I shall no more speak unto you in proverbs, but I shall shew you plainly of the Father.



    Isa 28:11

    For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people.

    Why you ask..... read Romans 11
    verse 32

    Rom 11:32

    For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
     
  13. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    Well, I don't really want to stray off topic, you're welcome to your own opinions.

    For me, with regards to the OP question, I would simply say that Scripture doesn't explicitly tell us, and that we therefore can come explicitly declare one way or the other.

    I personally believe the Canon of Scripture to be closed, and I would not put an unreliable near death experience of someone going to heaven claiming to have seen aborted babies as Truth. Especially when one says they instantly become full grown adults in heaven, and another one says they are raised to adulthood - the views are conflicting, and contradictory. Scripture is not.

    That being said, I do lean towards those who die either too young, or too mentally incompetent to grasp the atoning work of Christ on the cross will receive grace.

    In the end, we all receive either justice, or grace. Based upon what I see of the nature and character of God in Scripture - I would lean towards those that can't yet mentally grasp atonement to be on the grace end of things.
     
  14. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Do not hinder the children who come to Jesus on their own.
     
  15. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    Just after the fifteen minute mark in this video there is an exceptional testimony.......

    When Pastor Todd Burpo put the picture of Jesus in his book by Akiane Kramarik Colton Burpo said that this was exactly like Jesus looked... and thousands of people who read Heaven if For Real verifed this. Now that is interesting!

    [​IMG]



     
  16. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    Yup, that's it. I have a cousin on my wifes' side who is always
    Spirit filled. One of the only people I've met like that. That painting captures it.
    It's the look of somebody looking at you from space. The result is "soft focus".

    It's a charismatic thing that can be intentionally created.
     
    Last edited: Oct 15, 2019
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  17. sunshineforJesus

    sunshineforJesus is so in love with God Supporter

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    I believe so,Babies are innocent and sinless.
     
  18. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    Except in the video, Colton says that Jesus had nail piercing in the middle of his palms. Unfortunately, we know that when Christ was crucified that He was not nailed in the middle of the palms. The people who mistakenly think that Christ was nailed in the palms are typically young Christians who were told this by ignorant storytellers.

    And given the fact that Colton is retelling this particular story as the one absolutely unforgettable event that took place - it kind of really hurts his stories credibility.
     
  19. DennisTate

    DennisTate Newbie Supporter

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    That is a good question......
    I actually did think about that but I decided that Colton,even at three years and ten months old could be correct and the experts could be incorrect..... partly because the crucifixion of Messiah Yeshua - Jesus and the other two thieves was rushed........
    The Romans knew that they would be killing the prisoners and taking the bodies down before sunset due to the First Day of Unleavened Bread, a High Sabbath coming on.
     
  20. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    Two thoughts. First, I don't think you could have been nailed through the center of your palm without breaking any bones, and I think one important thing everyone agrees on is that Jesus didn't break any bones?

    Secondly, you're precisely right that the Romans knew what they were doing. They were professionals, they crucified thousands of people. They knew how to do it, they knew how to do it well, and they knew how to do it quickly. Everyone was crucified in the wrists at the ulna/radius as that provided the actual support needed so that their hands weren't torn through the nails.

    Also, as you clearly are into believing all sorts of outlandish extra-biblical stories, if you are a fan of the Shroud of Turin, then you would see that there is blood at the wrists, not the palms.

    I think the summary for me is that Colton, like everyone else who claims to have heaven stories, all have contradicting points in their stories where they tell mutually exclusive "facts".

    Most are probably like this one: Boy Says He Didn't Go To Heaven; Publisher Says It Will Pull Book
     
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