Divorced Catholics

[Song of Songs]

The purpose of this thread is to help struggling marriages, single parents and those who minister to them.

Since the divorce rate for Catholics parallels that of the unchurched population in the USA... it is a devastating problem many pastors and lay ministers are wanting to address. Could you share answers to a few questions birthed out of your own experience (from your own divorce or someone's divorce who is close to you)?

1) Were you and your spouse committed Christians before you married?

2) What elements caused your divorce?

3) What type of marriage preparation could have helped you avoid these problems?

4) What type of ministry should the church provide to help those with troubled marriages?

5) What resources are helping you through the divorce transition and single parenthood?

Thanks for all your insights.
Song of Songs

"To be a witness is a living mystery. It means to live one's life in such a way that it would not make sense of God did not exist." Cardinal Suhard

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

Since the divorce rate for Catholics parallels that of the unchurched population in the USA... it is a serious problem many pastors and lay ministers are wanting to address. Could you share answers to a few questions birthed out of your own experience (or someone close to you)?

1) Were you and your spouse committed Christians before you married?

2) What elements caused your divorce?

3) What type of marriage preparation could have helped you avoid these problems?

4) What type of ministry should the church provide to help those with troubled marriages?

5) What resources are helping you through the divorce transition and single parenthood?

Thanks for all your insights.
Song of Songs

"To be a witness is a living mystery. It means to live one's life in such a way that it would not make sense of God did not exist." Cardinal Suhard

Correction...

Since the divorce rate for contracepting Catholics parallels that of the unchurched population in the USA...

NFP users enjoy a 2% rate of divorce.

 

[Benedicta00]

Correction...

Since the divorce rate for contracepting Catholics parallels that of the unchurched population in the USA...

NFP users enjoy a 2% rate of divorce.

Thanks for pointing that out. It really isn’t a mystery why Catholics gets divorced. Those who live according to how the world tells them to live will find themselves divorced. Those who do not invite Christ into their marriage will find themselves divorced.

 

[bostonlass]

Since the divorce rate for Catholics parallels that of the unchurched population in the USA... it is a serious problem many pastors and lay ministers are wanting to address. Could you share answers to a few questions birthed out of your own experience (or someone close to you)?

I'll take a stab at it since I've been divorced for 6 years now.

1) Were you and your spouse committed Christians before you married?
That's actually confusing. We both believed in God, both knelt and prayed each morning and night to ask God to help us through our day, so in that sense I guess you'd say we were committed Christians. I went to church sporadically at best. I started out going each Sunday but then as time went on I just went on holidays. He never went at all....except for our wedding and our kids' baptisms.

2) What elements caused your divorce?
I don't think he ever took a good look at what marriage was supposed to be in the eyes of the church. How could he have really since he rarely attended. Bottom line is that when times got rough for us he cheated on me and left me for the other woman. Those "rough times" were the fact that I had two children back to back (literally...I went to my post partum appt. and found out I was pregnant again). Because I didnt' have time to lose the weight from the first child, I gained more weight with the second and he told me that my body was not at all attractive to him.

3) What type of marriage preparation could have helped you avoid these problems?
I don't think any marriage preparation would have helped us. We went through pre-cana and all that and it was basically viewed as something to get through rather than something to learn from. I loved him very much and nothing was going to convince me that I shouldn't marry him. The only true thing that would have avoided the problems is if I had been as true to my beliefs then as I am now and seriously looked for someone who went to church each Sunday and believed in the sanctity of marriage and believed that a husband should love his wife as Jesus loved the church.

4) What type of ministry should the church provide to help those with troubled marriages?
Anything!!!! We got no help. My priest told me he would help us after we sorted out our problems by spiritually guiding us but that he could not counsel us on our marital difficulties. I'm not sure if he would have helped but I would have liked the opportunity to find out. I know my husband would have seen him only because he came from a very strict Italian family and even though he didnt' go to church, if a priest asked you to come speak with him you did it.

5) What resources are helping you through the divorce transition and single parenthood?
Nothing. Just friends who are single parents as well. People who are married with children help slightly but they have no clue what it's like in the end. To this day my parents tell me that I should have just watched what I ate while I was pregnant and then maybe he wouldn't have left me. (I'm not huge btw...I am about 25 pounds overweight). I had to basically hunt for a school system that has the available aftercare coupled with a good reputation so that I could know that my kids would be taken care of while I work. It's not an easy road but you just put one foot in front of the other and move along as best you can.

ciao

bridget

 

[Fantine]

I really believe that couples who follow the dialogue techniques outlined in Marriage Encounter (the 10 and 10) will be less likely to get divorced.

Marriage Encounter was begun by a Catholic priest, Fr. Gabriel Calvo, to improve communication between couples. It also emphasizes that God is a partner in the marriage.

http://www.wwme.org/

I don't know very much about NFP, but I do know that communication is an important aspect of it.

I would say that it is good communication, rather than anything to do with NFP, that lessens the possibility of divorce. (And, if families practicing NFP are more likely to have SAHM's and to be larger, it is probably economic necessity that keeps them together.)

I have been married over 30 years, and never practiced NFP, but was involved with ME for a number of years.

 

[D'Ann]

Since the divorce rate for Catholics parallels that of the unchurched population in the USA... it is a serious problem many pastors and lay ministers are wanting to address. Could you share answers to a few questions birthed out of your own experience (or someone close to you)?

1) Were you and your spouse committed Christians before you married?

Honestly, No.

2) What elements caused your divorce?

Not divorced or separated. Been happily married for over 24 years so far.

3) What type of marriage preparation could have helped you avoid these problems?

Every marriage has struggles to work through... there is only so much preparation that a couple can receive and do... then they just need to get on with it. How to avoid problems? Stop loving and living? Nope...

Problems happen... they come and they go... everyone solves problems differently if they are solvable. Sometimes, people just need to truly love with God's love and truly understand and have compassion and forgive with God's love. Sometimes, we have to look at others with God's eyes and His love, especially our spouses. Life is about living and learning and growing... apart of that is problems that will come up and suffering that will happen. Life is not fair, nor is it easy... the only hope that we all have is in Jesus... for there is hope, faith and love... and the greatest of these is love.

The real question should be what is love and what kind of love should a foundation of a marriage be built on? For it is only by God's love that there is any hope in any marriage surviving.


1 Cor. 13: 1-13

[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:1 If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am a noisy gong or a clanging cymbal.[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:2 And if I have prophetic powers, and understand all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have all faith, so as to remove mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:3 If I give away all I have, and if I deliver my body to be burned, but have not love, I gain nothing.[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:4 Love is patient and kind; love is not jealous or boastful;[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:5 it is not arrogant or rude. Love does not insist on its own way; it is not irritable or resentful;[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:6 it does not rejoice at wrong, but rejoices in the right.[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:7 Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things, endures all things.[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:8 Love never ends; as for prophecies, they will pass away; as for tongues, they will cease; as for knowledge, it will pass away.[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:9 For our knowledge is imperfect and our prophecy is imperfect;[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:10 but when the perfect comes, the imperfect will pass away.[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:11 When I was a child, I spoke like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child; when I became a man, I gave up childish ways.[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:12 For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood.[/font][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]13:13 So faith, hope, love abide, these three; but the greatest of these is love.[/font]

4) What type of ministry should the church provide to help those with troubled marriages?

Prayer and if the parish has a qualified marriage counselor... that might be helpful too. Perhaps offering couple resort trips and perhaps offering couple classes on various topics...

5) What resources are helping you through the divorce transition and single parenthood?

I don't qualify to answer this question... But as a lay person... I believe that we should always pray for the families that are going through this difficult situation. Also be supportive and respectful and continue to include them in activities and conversations and be a good friend.

Thanks for all your insights.
Song of Songs

"To be a witness is a living mystery. It means to live one's life in such a way that it would not make sense of God did not exist." Cardinal Suhard

I don't know if I was helpful... I pray that all goes well and that others who have been through this in their life will share their thoughts with you.

God's Peace,

Debbie

 

[bostonlass]

Oh...I forgot to add that we did practice NFP up until I got pregnant with my second child.

 

[Benedicta00]

I really believe that couples who follow the dialogue techniques outlined in Marriage Encounter (the 10 and 10) will be less likely to get divorced.

Marriage Encounter was begun by a Catholic priest, Fr. Gabriel Calvo, to improve communication between couples. It also emphasizes that God is a partner in the marriage.

http://www.wwme.org/

I don't know very much about NFP, but I do know that communication is an important aspect of it.

I would say that it is good communication, rather than anything to do with NFP, that lessens the possibility of divorce. (And, if families practicing NFP are more likely to have SAHM's and to be larger, it is probably economic necessity that keeps them together.)

I have been married over 30 years, and never practiced NFP, but was involved with ME for a number of years.

I think you misunderstood DF, he said contracepting couples, not NFP couples. You can certainly use NFP as contraception and it's the mentality of with holding from one another that leads to divorce and feeds into the control freak personality.

If you are using NFP just to postpone a pregnancy and not because you are anti baby and/ or are forbidden by the other spouse not to become pregnant and you do not contracept but give your whole self away one to the other in marriage then it is hard to be a control freak, really.

Of course this doesn’t work unless both spouses are on the same page.

 

[D'Ann]

I'll take a stab at it since I've been divorced for 6 years now.

3) What type of marriage preparation could have helped you avoid these problems?
I don't think any marriage preparation would have helped us. We went through pre-cana and all that and it was basically viewed as something to get through rather than something to learn from. I loved him very much and nothing was going to convince me that I shouldn't marry him. The only true thing that would have avoided the problems is if I had been as true to my beliefs then as I am now and seriously looked for someone who went to church each Sunday and believed in the sanctity of marriage and believed that a husband should love his wife as Jesus loved the church.

I believe that you are correct in this. The sanctity of marriage and the Sacrament of marriage needs to be truly embraced within both spouse's hearts.

5) What resources are helping you through the divorce transition and single parenthood?

Nothing. Just friends who are single parents as well. People who are married with children help slightly but they have no clue what it's like in the end.

You are probably right. Although, my parents were divorced from the time I was 2. So, from a child's perspective... I truly do understand and have a clue as to some of the difficulties that my mom had gone through. I could share with you soooo many stories that you really wouldn't want to know... about stuff... that is why my heart goes out to you and other single parents. The child within me remembers in great detail so many things that had happened... things that should not of happened, but did... Sincerely, my heart is with you Bridget. My mom struggled and worked long hours to take care of 3 little kids... believe me, I could easily go on... but I'll spare you... LOL

To this day my parents tell me that I should have just watched what I ate while I was pregnant and then maybe he wouldn't have left me.

Unfortunately, I don't think it was the weight that he left over... sometimes, men are just weak and stupid when it comes to stuff... sorry... I don't mean unkindness, but it's true. Chances are he didn't have a clue as to what marriage was suppose to be... and if he left you with the "excuse of you gaining some pounds due to giving birth to yours and his babies... then he truly was shallow and immature... and sorry. One day, when Peter Pan grows up and he will, he'll realize what he has done and regret it. By then, it won't really matter anymore and hopefully you'll find away to forgive him if you haven't already. I don't agree with your mom at all. Men are strange creatures and I don't believe that it is so black and white.

(I'm not huge btw...I am about 25 pounds overweight). I had to basically hunt for a school system that has the available aftercare coupled with a good reputation so that I could know that my kids would be taken care of while I work. It's not an easy road but you just put one foot in front of the other and move along as best you can.

I have about 25 pounds to lose to... I hate it too... LOL I agree with you too... it's not an easy road and the only way to get through it is by putting one foot in front of the other and move along as best as one can.

Pax,

Debbie

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I don't think he ever took a good look at what marriage was supposed to be...

...I gained more weight with the second and he told me that my body was not at all attractive to him.

I'd say you are right on that one.

 

[bostonlass]

You are probably right. Although, my parents were divorced from the time I was 2. So, from a child's perspective... I truly do understand and have a clue as to some of the difficulties that my mom had gone through. I could share with you soooo many stories that you really wouldn't want to know... about stuff... that is why my heart goes out to you and other single parents. The child within me remembers in great detail so many things that had happened... things that should not of happened, but did... Sincerely, my heart is with you Bridget. My mom struggled and worked long hours to take care of 3 little kids... believe me, I could easily go on... but I'll spare you... LOL

I shouldn't have made such a broad statement. There are people who are married who understand, but I guess what I mean is that if it hasn't touched peoples lives, they sympathize but it's not the same. I don't know how to explain it. We live in a town where there are very few single parents basically I guess because it's a very weathly town. I was very lucky in that I got a good education and had some good luck in the real estate market so I could afford our home. Anyhoo maybe it's just me but I tend to get "looks" from the other parents. If I end up explaining my situation for whatever reason, they look at me like one would look at a stray dog, say "that's too bad" and walk away. On the flip side, when I meet other single parents, they commiserate I guess and talk about how they handle certain situations.

 

[Miss Shelby]

Sometimes, people just need to truly love with God's love and truly understand and have compassion and forgive with God's love. Sometimes, we have to look at others with God's eyes and His love, especially our spouses. Life is about living and learning and growing... apart of that is problems that will come up and suffering that will happen. Life is not fair, nor is it easy... the only hope that we all have is in Jesus... for there is hope, faith and love... and the greatest of these is love.

And sometimes one spouse leaves the other spouse, the latter who may be fully willing to work at it, and that person is left with no choice in the matter.

These questions were directed to divorced Catholics, right?

Michelle

 

[D'Ann]

I shouldn't have made such a broad statement. There are people who are married who understand, but I guess what I mean is that if it hasn't touched peoples lives, they sympathize but it's not the same.

In most cases and with most married people your statement is correct. Unfortunately, I have seen my parents destroy each other literally... and I think that is why I'm reaching out here... because I remember the struggles and the heartache and the sadness and suffering that I watched my mom go through. I agree with you though and you are correct, until someone truly does go through a situation, they do not have a complete and full and experienced understanding. It's like trying to explain what it feels like to have a baby... one can imagine, but until one does it... they can only understand partially. I guess my understanding is based on more of a child's understanding. I hope that makes some sense.

I don't know how to explain it. We live in a town where there are very few single parents basically I guess because it's a very wealthy town. I was very lucky in that I got a good education and had some good luck in the real estate market so I could afford our home.

I give you a lot of credit. Blessings are truly awesome and don't happen very often sometimes... I believe there is a lot to be said for a good education and some knowledge about the real estate market.

We have some single parents in our parish. When our kids are playing soccer or baseball or basketball... we all sit together and talk... and laugh... I always reach out to anyone who is sitting by themselves and invite them over too.

I don't understand why some parents lack the ability to include all people or why some turn away from single parents... I will pray for them...

Honestly though, you need and want true friends and people who lack the ability to be friends with you based on your marriage status... well, do you even want them in your life or as your friends? Probably not.

Anyhoo maybe it's just me but I tend to get "looks" from the other parents. If I end up explaining my situation for whatever reason, they look at me like one would look at a stray dog, say "that's too bad" and walk away. On the flip side, when I meet other single parents, they commiserate I guess and talk about how they handle certain situations.

They probably walk away because they are uncomfortable and don't know what to say... the sad part is they can ask you nice questions... things that we all have in common. They can share recipes with you or talk about kid stuff or work stuff (if they work outside of the home)... there is always something to talk about... and just saying "that's too bad" and walking away... I don't understand why people do that.

I can see how there is a connection with other single parents. It does make sense. I would think that there would be a strong support system there too.

God's Peace,

Debbie

 

[bostonlass]

So.......do we have any other divorced Catholic in the house???

Surely I can't be the ONLY one!!! Otherwise I guess those stats may be a tad skewed?

 

[D'Ann]

And sometimes one spouse leaves the other spouse, the latter who may be fully willing to work at it, and that person is left with no choice in the matter.

That is true... I didn't say otherwise. Marriage takes two to make it work and in some situations... it only takes one to end it. All in all, it is better not to judge, but to pray for understanding and to show kindness, respect and compassion to those who are suffering and hurting due to divorce.

These questions were directed to divorced Catholics, right?

Michelle

Maybe so, is there a problem with my answers?

 

[Dominus Fidelis]

I'd like to comment that the Pope recently said that divorced Catholics must be made to feel welcome at Mass.

 

[D'Ann]

I'd like to comment that the Pope recently said that divorced Catholics must be made to feel welcome at Mass.

You are soooo right and it should go beyond Mass. Being a single parent and/or divorced is not easy... My sister-in-law is now going through a divorce... and this is a subject close to my heart... Please pray for her and her children.

Pax,

Debbie

 

[Miss Shelby]

Maybe so, is there a problem with my answers?

I think that the thread OP was requesting the perspective of divorced Catholics. While there was nothing wrong with any of the answers, it appeared to me that the thread was moving in the direction of married Catholics sharing what has held their marriage together. That is a good thing. We don't want people to end up divorced afterall.

But there is something to be said from learning from the perspective of the divorced person. Just like you said, sometimes it's uncomfortable for people to talk to divorcees about the things they are going through and it's also hard for the divorcee to talk about what they are going through as well.

ONE THING I DO KNOW about divorced people, especially recently divorced people, is that they often go through a period where they feel like a failure because of their divorce, even if it was not their fault. EVEN THOUGH it's a big fat lie from the devil, they believe the lie that IF they would have done something differently, things would have worked out.

sweetcaroline even has the extra burden attached with her parents telling her her weight had something to do with it.

Anyhoo... my concern when I initially read this thread was that if there are divorced people feeling this way or who have felt this way, and then the first thing they read in this thread is advice and comments from married people about what NOT to do (contracept, and from married people at that) if they don't want the marriage to end in divorce, it just made me wonder if that wouldn't add to that feeling of failure, if anyone happened to be experiencing that.

Then again maybe I am just being overly sensitive.

And it really was my impression that the OP wanted to hear from divorcee's, perhaps as a way to pinpoint what the Church can do to help them after the fact, as well as to learn what might have prevented the divorce in the first place.

Michelle

 

[bostonlass]

And if anyone knows a nice single Catholic man between the ages of 35 and 55 who likes baseball and doesn't mind being around three hormonal girls, send him my way!!!!

 

[D'Ann]

And if anyone knows a nice single Catholic man between the ages of 35 and 55 who likes baseball and doesn't mind being around three hormonal girls, send him my way!!!!

Sweet Bridget...

If I did... I would definitely send him your way or you his way. I'll pm you with a few names... LOL

God's Peace,

Debbie