Divorced..and feel a calling to pastor

[AngelusSax]

Simply put, 'who ever divorces and remarries when the spouse still lives commits adultry'.

So I guess you're SOL whenever you marry someone who then proceeds to start beating you repeatedly. You either have to hope they die, or kill you, to stop the pain, or divorce and then live in a lonely misery.

Either that, or the first "marriage" wasn't truly valid in God's eyes, since he'd know that the abuser would start his stuff before it happened.

 

[Christina M]

So I guess you're SOL whenever you marry someone who then proceeds to start beating you repeatedly. You either have to hope they die, or kill you, to stop the pain, or divorce and then live in a lonely misery.

Yep.... according to Honibee we are all doomed to hell....... glad she isn't God.


I have a wonderful, godly husband now.... and I am not afraid to go to sleep at night worried that he is going to kill me.... nor am I afraid he will give me an STD from all his adultery....

And.................funny thing...... God must be pleased with us because He is blessing our ministry and many are being helped, loved on and brought into the kingdom through it. How could that be if I was in such horrible sin?

 

[Honibee]

according to Honibee

I appreciate your heart to ministser and help others, Christina. God is more interested in our personal obedience- it's how He understands our love for Him.
When you get past your bitterness to really see what GOD has to say in HIS WORD, then you may have something more to say. Until then, it appears that Romans 7:2-3, Matt 19:9, Mark 10:11-12, Lk16:18, 1Cor. 7:39 have been understood and rejected as God's word. Please do not be deceived, Jesus calls us to OBEDIENCE. Again, JESUS teaches only those who do the will of the Father really know Him. According to scripture, the will of the Father regarding d/r is clear- remarriage to one other than the covenant spouse while they still live, is adultry.

 

[~Nikki~]

Honibee and Autumnleaf...I've just been reading through the posts on this thread (since I last posted ages ago).

Thank you for speaking the truth!!!!!

The Bible clearly states that remarriage while a former spouse is still living is adultery...and that if people separate they must remain single or reconcile with their spouse. And it's not a twist of the Word to say that...

God bless you both...



www.marriagesforlife.com

 

[wild01]

The biblical standard for marriage is simple, If you have sex with someone that unites you. so if you have ever had sex with someone other than your first spouse you are just as guilty as a divorced person who has remarried.

let him/her who is without sin ......

 

[jeriko]

It's not that I don't agree with what the Bible says about this, but I am going to say No. THERE IS NOONE that God CAN'T use.

1 Timothy 3:2A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober, of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach;

A man of one wife does not particular mean , he must only be married once, but when he is married have no other women. A man of ONE wife, if he is divorced it's not his wife now is it ?

Seekfirst, my advice to you is to tell your friend that if he searches after God's heart, He will show your friend what to do and where to go. Don't be discouraged.

Look at David's life........

IT IS SILLY AND I WILL NOT CONFORM !!!!!!!!!!

It actually does mean having had only one wife. Sometimes we might read more into something because we want the Bible to support our theology and not the other way around

 

[jedgpz]

Interesting tread
I think that a devorced person can still be a minister.
I think we get too hung up on titles. May people are ministering with out titles.
As for the one wife deal that has been spoken about people need to remember that at that time a husband could have more than one wife via the laws of the land but a wife could only have one husband.
The original question / quote stated the adultery factor so i feel that gives biblical grounds for devorce. I would be as a friend asking questions as to why two marriages ended that way? I think it is something that he may want to ask God about (i am sure he has) i dont mean any disrespect by that statement.

 

[~Nikki~]

The biblical standard for marriage is simple, If you have sex with someone that unites you. so if you have ever had sex with someone other than your first spouse you are just as guilty as a divorced person who has remarried.

let him/her who is without sin ......

Really?

Actually that is something I have been pondering for a while now...

However, Jesus did not mention anything about getting married after having previously had sex with someone else. Neither did Paul.
In fact Paul said in 1 Corinthians that they USED to be fornicators, adulterers etc, but were no longer...

Also, the OT says (in Exodus), that if a man seduces a girl who is not engaged to anyone else, and he sleeps with her then he must go and pay the bride price to her father, and that even if her father refuses to let her marry him, he must pay up anyway. It doesn't say that sex means they are married, but that the guy must offer to marry her after seducing her.

Also, Judah was not considered to be married to Tamar after he slept with her. Lot's daughters were not considered to be married to him after they had sex with him. After Amnon made Tamar (a different Tamar) have sex with him, she wanted to follow the law and said to him to go and see David (her father), because David would surely not withold her from him in marriage. Sex didn't make them married otherwise she would not have asked him to see her father about marrying her. Anyway, Amnon said no he didn't want to marry her, and he didn't.

Also, the Bible talks about marriage being a covenant. Covenants were generally spoken or written and had witnesses...Also, in the OT marriages, gifts or dowries were given...sex was the consummation of the covenant, it didn't MAKE the covenant.

Just a few examples of how sex doesn't MAKE marriage. It may mean you SHOULD marry the person, but doesn't mean you ARE married.

As to whether it means that God requires you to stay single afterwards (if you didn't marry that person)..? That is what I'm pondering now. The Bible doesn't make that clear, and the NT does not address that issue.

However, both Jesus and Paul DO address the issue of remarriage after divorce, and they BOTH say it's adultery...that IS clear...(though if anyone has any scripture verses on this issue either way, then I'd love to see them)

Oh well...still got to ponder the other one... (oh, and I won't derail this thread any further).

 

[surfs]

I have appreciated following this important discussion.It is sad that christians often get more locked into an unforgiving mindset and rigid thinking than non-christians.Why the strong reaction against pastors whose marriages have failed?I believe scripture can be used by christians to easily hide their more deeper unexpressed fellings of resentment and fear.Pastors are often put on pedestals--when their marriage fails the flock feels betrayed--how could this happen to our role model-----and fearful--if it could happen to him it could happen to us.Better to put divorced pastors in vocational limbo out of ministry--out of sight--out of mind.It is just too threatening to think of an alternative to traditional thinking on the subject.

My wife left me after 25 years and is now living common-law.God provided recently after much prayer through a cyber connection a Godly woman as my wife from the other side of the earth.I am not in ministry again or in any type of Christian involvement as I am still in recovery from the accumulated wounds of those 25 years during which my ministry was severely impaired by the on-going spiritual tension at home and finally the severe trama of the divorce which I was totally against--almost destroyed me.Wounded pastors do not need additional wounds from other christians who either have a biblically incorrect understanding of scripture or a need to emotionally distance themselves from their own fears.My former church welcomed me back as a member to take as much time as possible to heal with no pressure to take on any leadership or service role while I heal.It is interesting that the pastor who replaced me is also a divorced pastor whose wife also left him so I have empathy in that area as well.A few words from a survivor of divorce--in Christ--Terry

 

[wild01]

[Matthew 5:32 nas] but I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except for the reason of unchastity, makes her commit adultery; and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

pease note a couple things here
first off there is a reason given to us by Jesus for divorce. unchastity. aka sleeping around
secondly it is assumed in all of the passages where Jesus refered to divorce that only a man could divorce his wife a woman at that time had no legal rights she could not divorce a man. thirdly is the forgiveness of sins conditional? fourthly Jesus never even adresses a man remarrying, as at that time a man could legally have 30,000 wives simultaneously.

marriage today is not always what it should be. it is not what God intended it to be. Ideally yes it should be one man and one woman. Ideally yes divorce should not happen. ideally, a lot of things should change, but we do not live in an Ideal world and thank God we are forgiven.

 

[~Nikki~]

fourthly Jesus never even adresses a man remarrying

Yes He does...

Matthew 19:9
And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for fornication, and marries another, commits adultery, and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery.

Mark 10:11-12
Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.

Luke 16:18
Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.

1 Corinthians 7:10-11
NOw to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord. A wife is not to depart from her husband. But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

secondly it is assumed in all of the passages where Jesus refered to divorce that only a man could divorce his wife a woman at that time had no legal rights she could not divorce a man.

Mark 10:11-12 talks about a woman divorcing her husband...

Mark 10:11-12
Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery.

first off there is a reason given to us by Jesus for divorce. unchastity. aka sleeping around

For which the Law required that she be stoned. He would take her before the judges and if it was proved she would be stoned. Leaving her dead. Leaving him free to remarry.

thirdly is the forgiveness of sins conditional?

Absolutely it is. Jesus came to save us *from* our sins, not save us *in* our sins. The fruit of our faith is a lifestyle that is according to God's will. If He says not to commit adultery then we shouldn't. Period. If He says not to steal, then we shouldn't. Period.

The Bible says that if we say we know God yet don't obey His commands then we are liars.

It says that the blood of Jesus cleanses us from sin IF we walk in the light as He is in the light. As in, obey God in everything.

It says that if we don't *practice* (or *do*) righteousness we are not children of God.

It says that not everyone who says Lord Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY those who do the will of the Father.

It says that repentance is needed before forgiveness, and repentance means stopping the sin.

So yes, forgiveness is conditional. Paul said that in no way does God's grace give us a license to sin (Romans) and that if we walk according to the flesh (adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness, idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissension, heresies, envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries - Galatians 5) we will not inherit the kingdom of God. Walking in these things means not putting them to death or stopping doing them. Repenting means dying to self and getting rid of these things no matter what it costs us. Repentance is a pre-requisite for forgiveness...

 

[wild01]

I stand corrected
A woman could divorce her husband.

Now let me ask you this

Is it your stance that because I can no longer kill my wife (or have her killed) for cheating on me, if I get divorced because of martital infidelity, I cannot remarry?

please note the op is refering to a situation in which infidelity was the reason for divorce.


oh and btw forgiveness of sins is not conditional. It is unconditional, just as God's love is unconditional. I am not saying that it is an excuse to keep living in rebellion. Romans and Galations do a very good job of explaining this dichotomy.

 

[~Nikki~]

I stand corrected
A woman could divorce her husband.

Now let me ask you this

Is it your stance that because I can no longer kill my wife (or have her killed) for cheating on me, if I get divorced because of martital infidelity, I cannot remarry?

please note the op is refering to a situation in which infidelity was the reason for divorce.

Here is my stance...

and it is to take God's Word for what it says, without trying to explain it away so that it no longer applies to me...

Matthew 5
31 "Furthermore it has been said, 'Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.' 32 But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality F22 causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

Matthew 19
4 And He answered and said to them, "Have you not read that He who made F93 them at the beginning 'made them male and female,' F94 5 and said, 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh'? F95 6 So then, they are no longer two but one flesh. Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." 7 They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to give a certificate of divorce, and to put her away?" 8 He said to them, "Moses, because of the hardness of your hearts, permitted you to divorce your wives, but from the beginning it was not so. 9 And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, F96 and marries another, commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced commits adultery." 10 His disciples said to Him, "If such is the case of the man with his wife, it is better not to marry."

Mark 10
2 The Pharisees came and asked Him, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife?" testing Him. 3 And He answered and said to them, "What did Moses command you?" 4 They said, "Moses permitted a man to write a certificate of divorce, and to dismiss her." 5 And Jesus answered and said to them, "Because of the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6 But from the beginning of the creation, God 'made them male and female.' F44 7 'For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, 8 and the two shall become one flesh'; F45 so then they are no longer two, but one flesh. 9 Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate." 10 In the house His disciples also asked Him again about the same matter. 11 So He said to them, "Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery against her. 12 And if a woman divorces her husband and marries another, she commits adultery."

Luke 16
18 Whoever divorces his wife and marries another commits adultery; and whoever marries her who is divorced from her husband commits adultery.

Romans 7
2 For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. 3 So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.

1 Corinthians 7
10 Now to the married I command, yet not I but the Lord: A wife is not to depart from her husband. 11 But even if she does depart, let her remain unmarried or be reconciled to her husband. And a husband is not to divorce his wife.

That's my stance.

 

[~Nikki~]

oh and btw forgiveness of sins is not conditional. It is unconditional, just as God's love is unconditional. I am not saying that it is an excuse to keep living in rebellion. Romans and Galations do a very good job of explaining this dichotomy.

Let me ask a question...

What does a person have to do to be forgiven for stealing? Can he be forgiven if he carries on stealing?

What does a person have to do to be forgiven for adultery? Can they carry on doing it and still be forgiven?

The Bible says the blood of Jesus cleanses us from all sin IF we walk in the light as He is in the light...I would guess walking in the light does not include carrying on stealing, or carrying on in adultery...

And there are verses which say if we wilfully sin after receiving the knowledge of the truth, then there is no sacrifice left for sin...just the expectation of judgement.

 

[Honibee]

Very biblical responses, Northstar! Scripture is CLEAR on the issue of d/r.

I'm pasting from my blog entry #8- it applies here. The material is taken from the site I mention:

Luke 14:27- 'And whosoever doth not bear his cross, and come after Me, cannot be my disciple.'​

THE COST of COMMITMENT: Throughout the Roman Empire, criminals bearing their cross through the heart of their cities to the place of their crucifixion symbolized that the sentence and punishment of death was correct. It was a public admission and confession. Christ used that symbol to tell those who were considering following Him as a Disciple that they were expected to publicly confess Christ and walk with Him - even to their own death. It's the high cost of discipleship!!​

~ Salvation costs nothing, discipleship costs everything ~​

There is no such thing as easy believism and painless repentance with low to no spiritual investment with expected high returns. .​

​

(taken from: http://goldenfaithbiblechurch.org/d..._remarriage.htm) ​

____________________________________________________________​

To highlight: ​

~Salvation costs NOTHING, discipleship costs EVERYTHING~​

____________________________________________________________​

Obedience is the ONLY way Jesus understands our love for Him.​

​

 

[~Nikki~]

Here's another verse stating that sins need forsaking...

Proverbs 28:13
He who covers his sins will not prosper, But whoever confesses and forsakes them will have mercy.

 

[dwhitaker]

Real, true-life drama. We relate to that don't we? The scene is a crowd of onlookers of one who sinned. Who are they? Heathen? Persons ignorant of law? No, they were the pharisees, the religious leaders of Jesus' day. This onlooking crowd is much like many of you chiming in on the divorced/remarried person. Who were they looking at? A woman caught in adultery. According to the law, such a person as this was worthy of death, even by stoning. The onlooking crowd were very serious and concerned about keeping the law of God. Being expert "law-keepers" they each carried a stone in their hand to condemn this sinner. Enter Jesus. No approval for their condemnation. No joining in with their judgement. What? Did Jesus approve of law breaking? Would he condemn those who stood to uphold the Old Testament law? Was not this sin despicable and worthy of death, and should be punished? Jesus, rather than condemn this woman, poses a question, one which I pose to you who read this post..."which of you are without sin, cast the first stone" The crowd dropped their stones. Was this woman's sin worthy of death? The answer is yes. However, every sin that the crowd had committed made them just as worthy of death. Something that this judgemental crowd missed, that I believe you who chime in proudly to condemn a divorced/remarried person without knowing their circumstance are missing, that is grace. What the Pharisees missed about the law, was the fulfillment of it. No man can keep the law. That is why Jesus came to fulfill it, and became the perfect sacrifice, so that by Him we have atonement for every sin committed, and every sin that will be committed (1 John 1:8-9). Jesus told the woman to go and not sin again. But He loved her and did not condemn her. Instead, He offered grace. You who are sooo much about law, remind me of Pharisees and Hypocrites, for your sins are just as great, yet you condemn those who have sinned a sin. (The one you didn't ). How will you stand before God? Will it be because you sinned the "little sin" and that is not so bad, as the sin of the divorced/remarried? Shame on you, You are Pharisees! For your little sin is enough to send you to Hell for eternity, and the grace you may have received, if you have truly been saved by His grace, is the same grace that cleanses the person who has been through a terrible divorce, and perhaps found blessing in a wonderful, Christian remarriage. I remember that my Bible also teaches that the Pharisees quoted alot of scripture too, but in almost every case, it was without the power of the Spirit, the love of Jesus Christ, and the great grace of God.

David Whitaker, PhD

 

[Honibee]

Real, true-life drama. We relate to that don't we? The scene is a crowd of onlookers of one who sinned. Who are they? Heathen? Persons ignorant of law? No, they were the pharisees, the religious leaders of Jesus' day. This onlooking crowd is much like many of you chiming in on the divorced/remarried person. Who were they looking at? A woman caught in adultery. According to the law, such a person as this was worthy of death, even by stoning. The onlooking crowd were very serious and concerned about keeping the law of God. Being expert "law-keepers" they each carried a stone in their hand to condemn this sinner. Enter Jesus. No approval for their condemnation. No joining in with their judgement. What? Did Jesus approve of law breaking? Would he condemn those who stood to uphold the Old Testament law? Was not this sin despicable and worthy of death, and should be punished? Jesus, rather than condemn this woman, poses a question, one which I pose to you who read this post..."which of you are without sin, cast the first stone" The crowd dropped their stones. Was this woman's sin worthy of death? The answer is yes. However, every sin that the crowd had committed made them just as worthy of death. Something that this judgemental crowd missed, that I believe you who chime in proudly to condemn a divorced/remarried person without knowing their circumstance are missing, that is grace. What the Pharisees missed about the law, was the fulfillment of it. No man can keep the law. That is why Jesus came to fulfill it, and became the perfect sacrifice, so that by Him we have atonement for every sin committed, and every sin that will be committed (1 John 1:8-9). Jesus told the woman to go and not sin again. But He loved her and did not condemn her. Instead, He offered grace. You who are sooo much about law, remind me of Pharisees and Hypocrites, for your sins are just as great, yet you condemn those who have sinned a sin. (The one you didn't ). How will you stand before God? Will it be because you sinned the "little sin" and that is not so bad, as the sin of the divorced/remarried? Shame on you, You are Pharisees! For your little sin is enough to send you to Hell for eternity, and the grace you may have received, if you have truly been saved by His grace, is the same grace that cleanses the person who has been through a terrible divorce, and perhaps found blessing in a wonderful, Christian remarriage. I remember that my Bible also teaches that the Pharisees quoted alot of scripture too, but in almost every case, it was without the power of the Spirit, the love of Jesus Christ, and the great grace of God.

David Whitaker, PhD

Let's look at another scene, shall we? Crowds of people are gathered. One by one they are called before the lover of their soul- now become their judge. Many hear the words, "Well done my good and faithful servant- enter into the joys of your Lord." But many more hear these words, "I never knew you- depart from me you workers of iniquity!" Were these the unsaved Jesus was talking about here? No. Matthew 7:21-23 depicts this scene:

Vs 21- Not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; BUT HE THAT DOETH THE WILL OF MY FATHER WHICH IS IN HEAVEN.

Vs 22- Many will say to Me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

Vs 23- And then will I profess unto them, I NEVER KNEW YOU: DEPART FROM ME, YE THAT WORK INIQUITY.

I'm well aware that you consider those who take obedience seriously to be pharisaical. But the truth of THAT matter is this: Jesus understands our love for Him BY OUR OBEDIENCE- as stated BY HIM in the verses from Matthew.

No man can keep the law. That is why Jesus came to fulfill it, and became the perfect sacrifice, so that by Him we have atonement for every sin committed, and every sin that will be committed (1 John 1:8-9).

Praise God that Jesus DID fulfill the law, and provided atonement for us! We need to remember in light of this, that the external law is INTERNALIZED with the New Covenant Jesus instituted. We are the living fulfillment of the prophecy of Ezekiel:

"And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes..."

In her book, 'Our Covenant God', Kay Arthur says this:

Therefore Jesus, after rising from the dead and before ascending to the Father, told His disciples to 'wait for what the Father had promised.' And He said: 'You shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you.'

The gift of the Spirit set us free from the principle of sin and death which reigned in our bodies. Now we are able to walk according to the Spirit; we have our Covenant Partner's strength (Ro. 8:4, Galatians 5:16-25, 2 Cor. 12:9). We are made 'adequate as servants of a new covenant, not of the letter [the covenant of the law], but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.' (2 Cor. 3:6).

How fair would it be for Jesus to ask us to do anything, if this wasn't true? Praise God- He is not a liar. The good news is this: No longer do we have to struggle under the strain of trying to live sinless in our OWN strength. The mystery of our salvation equals that of covenant marraige (Ephesians 5)- we are ONE with the Lord, and HIS life and power enables us, through the Holy Spirit, to do what is commanded of us. Essencially, we are without excuse. And to live in continued sin is a mockery of the Blood that was shed to give power OVER SIN!

 

[Christina M]

It's a long hard fall from the self-righteous positions some people here have put themselves. Sheeeeesh. I hope to God they think about that before any more of them post such "piety" in judgment of those who have remarried.


Isn't there a scripture about taking out a beam in your eye before telling anyone else what to do???

 

[~Nikki~]

It's a long hard fall from the self-righteous positions some people here have put themselves. Sheeeeesh. I hope to God they think about that before any more of them post such "piety" in judgment of those who have remarried.


Isn't there a scripture about taking out a beam in your eye before telling anyone else what to do???

I don't believe there is a person here who has judged. There is no need to when the Bible has already done that. For example I don't need to judge whether stealing is right or wrong...the Bible says it is, therefore God has already judged that this is wrong.

I don't need to judge whether it's wrong to lie - the Bible says it is, and therefore God's already judged that lying is wrong.

I don't need to judge whether fornication and adultery are wrong - the Bible says these things are wrong, therefore God has already judged and decided that they're wrong.

I don't need to decide that remarriage is adultery because the Bible says it is, therefore God's already made the decision about that so I or anyone else here have no need to judge.

I don't need to judge whether liars, thieves, adulterers, fornicators etc will inherit the kingdom of heaven or not. The Bible says they won't, so God's already made the decision...I don't need to.

How does one stop being a liar? By quitting lying.
How to stop being a thief? Stop stealing.
How to stop being a fornicator? Stop fornicating.
And I guess the same goes for adultery too...