Divorce

[PreachersWife2004]

divorce is not mercy nor is it love. And in most cases it is abandomment because one person did not meet the other persons vain expectations.

if ones faith is strong enough then love cannot be broken. Just as it wasn't broken in the saints who died for Christ and were tortured, executed, fed to lions, and burnt on stakes. St. Peter was crucified upside-down. Did he break??

the body may not, but the spirit is willing. Unconditional love is very possible..rare.. but not impossible..

AH yes...how vain of me to want a husband who didn't try to kill me every morning! How vain of me to want a good role model for my son! How vain of me to expect my own spouse to not abandon his marriage.

You're as bad as ducky, telling people their marriage failed because their faith wasn't strong enough.

That's bullcrap, and it's going to kill someone. It probably already has killed someone. When one spouse has already abandoned the marriage, the other spouse cannot abandon it - it's already gone.

I will tell you again...my faith was like a rock during my first marriage. It was one of the few things that actually got me through that horrific time in my life. My faith was strengthened after I divorced! Never did God leave me, never did God forsake me. He was with me every step of the way, guiding me, helping me, comforting me.

Please, for the sake of my fellow beaten and bruised women, stop this nonsense. Do you realize that it makes it look like YOU are an abuser? Because this is logic that an abuser uses. They manipulate the feelings of those they abuse, they make them feel guilty, they make them feel less human. By telling these women that their faith wasn't strong enough, you're doing the same thing.

 

[Jazz and Blues Notes]

This might sound odd, but if I divorce my husband, then re-marry him later, is that a sin?

 

[PreachersWife2004]

This might sound odd, but if I divorce my husband, then re-marry him later, is that a sin?

nope, that's called reconciliation!!

 

[beckyjustbecky]

Yea, lets see how you cope being beat to a pulp..... See how long you stay at it

 

[clep]

Divorce isn't love. Unconditional love is not broken by any setbacks. Divorce is based on conditional "love". True love says that they will be there under all circumstances and bounds which only death can separate. Conditional "love" says, IF you do this or do that, I will leave you. And the minute you put conditions on a marriage that is the beginning of its failure. I don't care if your seperated for 10-20 years, if they're in a prison cell, in a ward, takes hundreds of hours of counseling or therapy, you still love your spouse enough to care about them and not abandon them, and for the sake of the children. your spouse will see that love and eventually see the err of their ways by your love and piety. Even the epistle of Peter says that unbelieving spouses can be won by the behavior of their wives through their modesty, submissiveness, humility, and piety..

Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, - 1 Peter 3:1

as I said before in cases of abuse, separation is needed. But never abandonment.love does not abandon.it goes through thick and thin.

I would say that this is naive to think this is always the case. My mother was all of the qualities you have expressed. She too believed that my father would be won over if she did everything biblical. She believed that for 23 years, through all of the abuse and threats of death.

She finally figured out that he didn't want to be won over. He didn't think there was anything wrong with his behavior. He knew there was something wrong with some of his behavior, but threatened us children so that no one would find out about those things.

Putting the onus on a woman to behave accordingly to change the will of another is ridiculous. A man who is abusing his wife does not love her. He has already abandoned the marriage.

I can't believe one thinks it is okay to have children living in an abusive situation. I couldn't be by myself until I was 28 in my own house. My father used to come in drunk very often in the middle of the night and beat us all. Even ten years after being removed from that situation I was deeply affected. It altered my whole life and my adult life.

Even when my father went to prison for raping me and my two sisters I still lived in fear that he would escape and kill us. When he got out and broke the restraining order with phone contact he would share with us that by the time the police got there to help we would already be dead. He believed we victimized him by sending him to prison.

My father seeped sin out of his very pores. I can't believe that the merciful God in my life would want me to be guided by and around such a sinful person. After finding out about what my father did to us my mother left him and was in a mental hospital over her guilt and grief that she didn't protect us from him.

I don't believe God meant that life for me or for my family. I never will believe that. I will also NEVER believe that my mother should be alone for the rest of her life because of the abuse she endured. Fundamentalists can try to use scripture literally and put the lives of many at stake just like they did with me as a child, but it won't make them right, merciful or any closer to God. It does imo make them as bad as the abuser that ruined my life.

Even before I was raped I was an empty shell of a child that grew up that way to be an adult. It took about ten years for me to start losing the fear that consumed me. Those divorce papers that severed the ties to my father was just the starting point to a life. Had those papers never been granted the first step never would have even started for me to have a life as well as my whole family. Severing all ties for our family was the only way.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Thank, PW, for being willing to share your story. This is one reason why I, at this point in my life anyway, am choosing not to be in a relationship, because as you've illustrated, some guys will deliberately wait until a woman is good and hooked (legally through marriage or emotionally or both) before the pretty picture they've painted of the kind of man they are starts to disintegrate. I know what it's like to be hooked on a "bad" man - I was hooked at one time to a man who was a compulsive liar (didn't even tell me he had a girlfriend, who worked at the same USPS office he did, who he lived with, and he was coming over to my house once a week and hitting the sheets with me after work). Even after I found out about that, I didn't care -- I still hit the sheets with him for over 2 years, even after someone ELSE who used to work with him told me he was "attached", and I was finding this out 2.5 years after the first time he ever touched me. Took a long time, but I finally basically told him to go to hell about a year ago.

I haven't read past your post, but I am curious as to what the OP's response to it is. Bottom line NO ONE has any right to judge you because you escaped your first marriage. You definitely did the right thing, and you have nothing to be ashamed of.

Actually, no, I didn't. He was on meds for schizophrenia and bipolar disease. I did not know this. He went off his meds not long after we were married and the fun began. It was mental abuse at first. Verbal jabs and put downs. That got worse. I can't go into detail because, well, it's just private, that's all.

Because the abuse was mental, I didn't automatically leave. I just thought he was suddenly a mean guy. It happens, and I steeled myself to be miserable.

When he became physical, WHILE I was holding our son, that's when I left. I didn't even take time to pack up my stuff. He, in turn, took my bank card, emptied out the checking and savings and then proceeded to burn my possessions. The police removed him from the premises of the apartment. We had the locks changed, but not before he came in and smashed our son's cake...our son was turning 1. Then, he called the electric company and the cable company and had all our services shut off at the apartment. When he was served with the restraining order, he told the guy that he'd kill me anyway.

He showed up at work the morning my brake lines were cut and tried to get me to come out and talk to him. When my boss told him to get lost, he told me that he had money for me but that I had lost out because I refused to see him (actually, even if I had wanted to see him, the RO prevented me from doing so, at least if I wanted to be serious about needing it). My boss saw him loitering in the parking lot and called the police, but by the time the cops got there he was gone. Fortunately, my boss stuck around with me and walked me to my car and waited until I had started driving out of the lot. That's when I realized something was wrong with the car - it wouldn't stop. Thank God I didn't make it out onto the street! When the mechanic looked at it, he knew right away that it was intentionally cut.

There were more things after that, too. He was bad when we were together, but he got worse after we split.



Witness protection? You watch too much TV. And having escorts and police patrols don't always stop the madness. I'm not defeatist, but I am a realist, and I work with abused women a lot. Women call the police on their husbands all the time, and then they slip through the cracks. Some husbands are so abusive and so manipulative that it doesn't take much more than a "I'll kill our children if you try to leave" or "I'll go after your family if you try to leave" to keep a beaten woman down.

Sometime when you get a chance, listen to "love the way you lie" with Rihanna and Eminem. Yeah, yeah, it's rap and it's not the greatest sounding song, but the lyrics are very powerful. It chronicles an abusive relationship and how they start, and how the man continues to escalate the abuse and the mental manipulations he makes. The song is very true to life. I still have the threatening letters from my ex where he said he would kill my family or find our son and take him away from me. As bat-crazy as my ex was, I firmly believed that he could make good on those threats and basically had to live the next three years as a recluse...I only went out to go to work. I had seven locks on my door. We added my folk's house to the restraining order and some of my friends who were cops kept watch at my apartment and my folk's neighborhood. I don't think I could ever put into words the terror and loneliness I felt during those three years. I'm not sure I'd want to try to put into words.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

FreeSpirit, just remember, there are good guys out there!

I found mine when I least expected it. and I hope you find yours.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

FreeSpirit, just remember, there are good guys out there!

I found mine when I least expected it. and I hope you find yours.

I know there are. But part of me is always saying I only have this one life, and I want to be extremely careful who I allow to share in it. Ironically, that's what the guy I mentioned (who saw himself as being a mentor to me) was always telling me - make the man EARN what it is you have to give, and you DO have a lot to offer. Little did I know. I won't call him abusive, because I still chose, after finding out, to continue to be involved with him, but the Universe opened my eyes to him, sure enough.

One thing I hope never happens to me is to find myself in the type of situation you dealt with. I have never known what it is to truly fear for my life, I hope that I never find out what that is like, and I feel for any woman who is in such a situation.

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Duckybill is *really* depressing me. I already believe that based on my deliberate sin of unbiblical divorce, I've lost my salvation. I mean, God likens my act to that of murder, so what hope do I really have of being forgiven by Him in the end?

I would put him on Ignore. I don't have him on Ignore but, then again, I do not follow the Christian ideology, so whatever he is saying on this topic does not have any effect on me spiritually in the slightest. I only feel disgust that people in this day and age, when we are so aware of abusive relationships and the damage they cause would have the nerve to insist that anyone, man or woman, stay in an abusive marriage simply to satisfy a religious ideal. The only thing to do is to sever all ties to the abuser, legally, physically, mental, emotionally, and spiritually.

Focus on PeachersWife2004's, beckyjustbecky's, and clep's posts; they have actual firsthand knowledge and experience with abusive relationships. I would like to thank them all for really being a strong voice of reason on this thread, to counteract the idiocy of certain posters (who shall remain nameless, but they know who they are).

 

[FreeSpirit74]

Oh, just shut up. Do us all a favor and stick to discussing topics with which you are actually familar.

Divorce isn't love. Unconditional love is not broken by any setbacks. Divorce is based on conditional "love". True love says that they will be there under all circumstances and bounds which only death can separate. Conditional "love" says, IF you do this or do that, I will leave you. And the minute you put conditions on a marriage that is the beginning of its failure. I don't care if your seperated for 10-20 years, if they're in a prison cell, in a ward, takes hundreds of hours of counseling or therapy, you still love your spouse enough to care about them and not abandon them, and for the sake of the children. your spouse will see that love and eventually see the err of their ways by your love and piety. Even the epistle of Peter says that unbelieving spouses can be won by the behavior of their wives through their modesty, submissiveness, humility, and piety..

Wives, in the same way be submissive to your husbands so that, if any of them do not believe the word, they may be won over without words by the behavior of their wives, - 1 Peter 3:1

as I said before in cases of abuse, separation is needed. But never abandonment.love does not abandon.it goes through thick and thin.

 

[Duckybill]

You're a prophet now?

Didn't say I am, didn't say I ain't.

 

[Duckybill]

Being threatened at gun point by a stranger, and then by your spuose is entirely different!

I guess so. They use different guns.

My Mother couldn't get into ANY refuges because she refused to "Divorce" my father, meaning everytime she got away, she had no choice than to let us starve or go back to him.

For Christians it's a non-issue. God takes care of His own.

You are completely small minded and locked away in your own little bubble about this. How DARE you come on here and condemn people for chosing to live rather than die.

Whom did I condemn? If your conscience condemns you don't blame me.

It is people like you who forced these scriptures down her neck that gave her no other option than to attempt suicide. She honestly bellieved she had no other option. Thank God she's with me today.

People like me? You mean Christians?

You have no place whatsoever in behaving like you are, or comdemning like you are. You do not know peoples circumstances or what they are living with every day. You do not know the fear I learned from being in that home. Or the injuries I have suffered because of men and women just like you.

Whom did I condemn?

The final thing I am going to say on this, for you and for all to read is that Above all. Jesus taught LOVE. Which is something I have yet to see displayed from you anywhere on these forums. Love was what gave my mother the strength for divorce my father, LOVE made her put her children before her own salvation -(according to the church members) I do not for one second believe my mothers salvation is affected because she divorced my father. I do not wish to have your opinion on this either. Love is the reason I am alive today. So the next time you decide to vomit scriptures all over the place, take one second and think about how your self righteousness will affect the people you are condemning.

Faith is the reason I am alive today. God is faithful to we who believe. Your false accusations are irrelevant.

 

[Duckybill]

Divorce can be a mercy. I guarantee it.

Sin is not mercy. Your guarantee won't hold up on Judgment Day.

 

[Duckybill]

AH yes...how vain of me to want a husband who didn't try to kill me every morning! How vain of me to want a good role model for my son! How vain of me to expect my own spouse to not abandon his marriage.

Are you saying God couldn't have saved your husband? He saved Paul, a murderer of Christians.

You're as bad as ducky, telling people their marriage failed because their faith wasn't strong enough.

God said it, not me.

Mark 9:23 (NKJV)
23 Jesus said to him, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes."

That's bullcrap, and it's going to kill someone. It probably already has killed someone. When one spouse has already abandoned the marriage, the other spouse cannot abandon it - it's already gone.

How convenient to divorce and remarry.

I will tell you again...my faith was like a rock during my first marriage. It was one of the few things that actually got me through that horrific time in my life. My faith was strengthened after I divorced! Never did God leave me, never did God forsake me. He was with me every step of the way, guiding me, helping me, comforting me.

Sorry, but it sounded like you were quite desperate. It sounds like He didn't help you either.

Please, for the sake of my fellow beaten and bruised women, stop this nonsense. Do you realize that it makes it look like YOU are an abuser? Because this is logic that an abuser uses. They manipulate the feelings of those they abuse, they make them feel guilty, they make them feel less human. By telling these women that their faith wasn't strong enough, you're doing the same thing.

It is quite sad to see such unbelief from religious folks. Satan has done his work, again.

 

[AussieUndies]

I read through this whole thread and registered primarily to say:
Duckybill, you are the type of person who give Christians a bad name as arrogant, extremist and superior. You show no empathy, no sympathy or Christian love to those who have admitted to divorce, only judgement and criticism.

Divorce isn't fun, its a terrible time in your life where even remembering back can draw you back into the pain and Duckybill's comments do nothing to help those trying to cope with what psychologists would say is one of the most devastating and painful times in your life.

I am a divorcee. My wife was unfaithful numerous times. My wife verbally and psychologically abused me continuously. My wife was a gold digger whose personality changed within days of being married from one who couldn't wait to begin our walk together with God as one, to one who just wanted to spend my, and my family's money, abusing me and using every tactic imaginable to keep me on a tight leash.

To those of you who are divorced with or without a biblical justification, God STILL loves you! Don't let Duckybill or any other religious person with a superiority complex convince you otherwise. They are just a "resounding gong or a clanging cymbal".

 

[clep]

Are you saying God couldn't have saved your husband? He saved Paul, a murderer of Christians.
God said it, not me.

Mark 9:23 (NKJV)
23 Jesus said to him, "If you can believe, all things are possible to him who believes."
How convenient to divorce and remarry.
Sorry, but it sounded like you were quite desperate. It sounds like He didn't help you either.
It is quite sad to see such unbelief from religious folks. Satan has done his work, again.

"Both pride and self-righteousness blind our ability to see things as they really are. The worst part of this blindness is that the blind person does not believe they are blind. To others it is obvious, but to the poor souls wearing the garments of pride and self-righteousness, they actually believe they see. And they always see themselves in a different light than others see them.

A self-righteous person will always have people they can look down upon. After all, some people work harder for the Lord than others. While they may not voice it openly, those deemed to be outside the "saved" camp become secretly despised. Since God is going to deal with them in very cruel ways, the self-righteous person feels justified in copying their God of wrath. This self-righteousness then becomes a mountain of people under their feet, so to speak, a mass of people to look down upon as despised, forsaken, despicable. This mass of people can be compose of other denominations, people with other doctrinesand creeds, entire nations, various personal preferences, or a host of other reasons to place these people in the "not saved" or "unjustified" camp.

Self-righteousness, is the number one cause of failure in a Christian's life. Two giant pillars of the gates of hell are pride and self-righteousness.

The danger of having the problem of self-righteousness is that it is a blinding agent. Once the poison sets in, the person becomes blind to the fact they are self-righteous. In addition, it is almost impossible for other human beings to tell that person they are self-righteous. They truly cannot see it. The Pharisees who say, "We thank God we am not like them" really do not thank God, they are praising themselves and their own works. They see everything through their own works, which to them are good. They say they "see," but Jesus said that because they say they "see," their sin remains. Self-righteousness causes us to say we see, when we are truly spiritually blind."

Maybe pick up the book "Marriage, Divorce and Remarriage" by Samuel G Dawson, or even Not Under Bondage: Biblical Divorce for Abuse, Adultery & Desertion. It seems like you could use some aid interpreting the Bible.

Might be better off though working on your pride and self righteous sins first so you can see.

 

[CreedIsChrist]

AH yes...how vain of me to want a husband who didn't try to kill me every morning! How vain of me to want a good role model for my son! How vain of me to expect my own spouse to not abandon his marriage.

You're as bad as ducky, telling people their marriage failed because their faith wasn't strong enough.

That's bullcrap, and it's going to kill someone. It probably already has killed someone. When one spouse has already abandoned the marriage, the other spouse cannot abandon it - it's already gone.

I will tell you again...my faith was like a rock during my first marriage. It was one of the few things that actually got me through that horrific time in my life. My faith was strengthened after I divorced! Never did God leave me, never did God forsake me. He was with me every step of the way, guiding me, helping me, comforting me.

Please, for the sake of my fellow beaten and bruised women, stop this nonsense. Do you realize that it makes it look like YOU are an abuser? Because this is logic that an abuser uses. They manipulate the feelings of those they abuse, they make them feel guilty, they make them feel less human. By telling these women that their faith wasn't strong enough, you're doing the same thing.

I can't imagine what you think of Jesus then when he calls re-marriage adultery. Or St. Paul who says that the women should remain married to her husband.

Secondly I never said that their faith wasn't strong enough. I said divorce was the result of sin and worldly conditional issues. However I have never said that a woman should live with her abuser. I always advocated separation for as long as it takes until reparation.

me an abuser? oh please, that is such typical mind-game play that western women tend to use when someone disagrees with them. This type of victimization mindset doesn't work in relationships or by trying to fully put the blame on the other partner. Me believing marriages can be fixed and repaired doesn't make me an abuser. Good reason is that most divorces involve dysfunction on both sides. You always hear ONE side of the story when someone tells the story of their divorce, but there is always another side and both sides tend to embellish. In America the things that I have seen women call "abuse" is almost laughable and ridiculous compared to what actual abuse is. I remember hearing one woman saying her husband was 'abusing' her because he took away the credit card for a week because she was spending too much. So the spectrum of what women call "abuse", especially in the western world, can be a vast one expanding from the most severe to the most ridiculous.

im am looking at divorce on the large scale. And in the long run is has done great harm to society. More children grow up without mother or father. Over 50% of all prison inmates come from broken homes. Children from broken homes have a much higher chance of getting in trouble with the law and have developmental problems. And many divorces aren't even filed under abuse, but the vague "irreconcilable differences" many of which are extremely ludicrous superficial reasons. it is obvious westerners don't respect and value marriage as it used to be, and treat it more as a contract rather than an unbroken bond between man and woman. Divorce put conditions on marriage and sometimes it was even used as a form of blackmail and extortion. If the spouse doesn't meet the person's "expectations" they divorce and go on to another person who they think meets their 'expectations'. Most people who get in this cycle end up married more than twice and rarely ever have a stable relationship. And with chivalry dead, no-fault divorce, the sanctity of marriage, and feminism on the rise, husband and wife will continue to communicate in a dysfunctional level..Until we teach our children the correct roles in marriage, teaching them modesty, fortitude, temperance, chastity and charity they will not have the tools for a successful marriage..So many marriages end in divorce because of the dysfunctional values society has.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

I can't imagine what you think of Jesus then when he calls re-marriage adultery. Or St. Paul who says that the women should remain married to her husband.

The bible allows for remarriage under certain circumstances.

Secondly I never said that their faith wasn't strong enough. I said divorce was the result of sin and worldly conditional issues. However I have never said that a woman should live with her abuser. I always advocated separation for as long as it takes until reparation.

But how you say it is as bad as what Ducky says.

me an abuser? oh please, that is such typical mind-game play that western women tend to use when someone disagrees with them. This type of victimization mindset doesn't work in relationships or by trying to fully put the blame on the other partner. Me believing marriages can be fixed and repaired doesn't make me an abuser. Good reason is that most divorces involve dysfunction on both sides. You always hear ONE side of the story when someone tells the story of their divorce, but there is always another side and both sides tend to embellish. In America the things that I have seen women call "abuse" is almost laughable and ridiculous compared to what actual abuse is. I remember hearing one woman saying her husband was 'abusing' her because he took away the credit card for a week because she was spending too much. So the spectrum of what women call "abuse", especially in the western world, can be a vast one expanding from the most severe to the most ridiculous.

I said it makes you sound like one, CiC, not that you are one. As I pointed out, I imagine most abused spouses tried their hardest to make their marriage work. And we're not talking the type of stuff you mention above. We're talking hard core abuse, physical abuse, the kind that leaves scars - physically and emotionally.

im am looking at divorce on the large scale. And in the long run is has done great harm to society. More children grow up without mother or father. Over 50% of all prison inmates come from broken homes. Children from broken homes have a much higher chance of getting in trouble with the law and have developmental problems. And many divorces aren't even filed under abuse, but the vague "irreconcilable differences" many of which are extremely ludicrous superficial reasons. it is obvious westerners don't respect and value marriage as it used to be, and treat it more as a contract rather than an unbroken bond between man and woman. Divorce put conditions on marriage and sometimes it was even used as a form of blackmail and extortion. If the spouse doesn't meet the person's "expectations" they divorce and go on to another person who they think meets their 'expectations'. Most people who get in this cycle end up married more than twice and rarely ever have a stable relationship. And with chivalry dead, no-fault divorce, the sanctity of marriage, and feminism on the rise, husband and wife will continue to communicate in a dysfunctional level..Until we teach our children the correct roles in marriage, teaching them modesty, fortitude, temperance, chastity and charity they will not have the tools for a successful marriage..So many marriages end in divorce because of the dysfunctional values society has.

I don't think anyone would disagree with you here. Divorce is bad. There's no doubt about that. But we who were abused didn't divorce because our spouses didn't live up to our expectations...we divorced because they didn't live up to God's expectations.

I have been able to show my 14 year old what a good marriage is, how a good husband acts and how a good wife acts, because I am remarried.

 

[PreachersWife2004]

.
Sorry, but it sounded like you were quite desperate. It sounds like He didn't help you either.
It is quite sad to see such unbelief from religious folks. Satan has done his work, again.

Satan is working overtime through you, my friend. He giggles with glee every time you post this crap.

My faith is strong, so get thee behind me Satan. You can question all you want, and make these crazy statements that I didn't believe and that God didn't help me, but He sure did, in amazing ways, ways that I don't think you and your petty little mind can even fathom.

I'm happy and content in the Lord. It's too bad Satan is trying to attack me through you, but I hope you can be stronger and ask God to rid you of Satan's influence.

 

[mpok1519]

I wonder how many people out there will be hurt by actually listening to some of the people here on this thread.

Ducky; so if your wife beat you up and threaten to kill you and our children you wouldn't divorce her? Would you stay and potentially be a factor in the death of your own children? Just askin....