Divorce (why You Should, Or Shouldn't)

[dayknee]

One of the most interesting things about marriage and divorce is just how much emphasis and "Sin" is heaped upon the subject.

Regardless of whether divorce is truly "allowed" or not, whether it is based on conditions or no conditions at all, one must also keep in mind that we are sinners. We are sinners. We will fail. We will make choices and sin against God and the Law time and again.

However, this does not excuse us from anything. There are no excuses. There are no, "But I wasn't built strong enough for this or that." However, when it comes to sex, we seem mighty quick to apply the "You are sinning for eternity clause" to it. It is applied in a number of situations.

1.) You divorce and remarry. Now you're "commiting adultery constantly," as if you somehow had no power to actually divorce in the first place. Some will be quick to quote the "let no man put asunder" clause, forgetting that the phrase starts with "let" not "It's impossible." Doesn't make it "right" of course, but doesn't make it impossible either. Divorce, though hated, carries no meaning as a word if it weren't actually possible to commit.

2.) Divorce means that you don't care about God or his Laws. Many people like to heap this charge. Often, they are "proudly married" themselves, and have already reached the mountain top. Others carry the "battle scars of bad marriage" like a badge of honor. Either way, mountain-top people enjoy crying to the crowds below.

3.) Marriage is the ulitmate covenant. Of course, while they discuss over and over the importance of marriage, few are worried about the 1 million other ways we are constantly betraying the Lord day in and day out. Few are also lacking in concern about how certain partners conduct themselves in marriages that don't break apart. We love pointing out abuse and neglect of the emotional and physical type, but have little or nothing to say in terms of how spouses treat each other, both man AND woman. It's very convenient. "Don't you dare divorce! You've gotta try!" Meanwhile, wife A can disrespect her husband, subtlely, all her life, and reap no criticism. Husband B can be emotionally neglectful in a subtle manner all his life, and see little correction or scorn. Wife C can decide that her "looks" don't matter (she's got the ring and thus the prize after all), and she'll just be comfortable with her body anyway she likes, even if her husband doesn't like it (he better not). No criticism. Husband D can decide he likes porn a lot, his looks and hygiene can deterioriate as he wishes, and of course, he's entitled to the bar and his beer in copious amounts. We'll call them deadbeats from a distance, but there's little going on to fix that problem.

The way I see it, divorce is never good, and there is never a "blameless" individual. If the company fails, we don't just say that one did it and the other couldn't help it. We find fault in each side according to their investment, and hope they make better partnerships later. With marriage, it is the same. Never good. Never applaudable. Still sinful. But after it's done, it's done.

Would Jesus divorce. I'd say no. And if someone manages to go through a bad marriage to the end, without ending up a broken, destroyed vessel, then kudos. The ones that get through with nothing to show for it at the end though (and it's actually a majority of people, I'd wager), then what am I applauding. They followed the law, but the spirit never came out of it. They struggled... but to what end? If I see a spiritually enabled and more powerful individual, then I guess we've got our case for no divorce. But that is so rare. I won't hold my breath.


I'll agree with Flanders on this one. He doesn't blame God, or his wife. He does not consider himself blameless, faultless, or guiltless. But he also knows that what's done is done. There's no time to decide that the kingdom has left him and that he's forever sexually impaired. It's not a good thing that happened. We won't take pictures and enshrine it in the Good Times club. But we also shouldn't dwell or condemn. If we do... then I have one last point to make.

King David has betrayed his God and our religion to the utmost. He had several wives, and had the husband of one killed. He still married. It was not "good" nor commendable. But it also was not the end of David. Or Bathsheba, who bore equal responsibility. We are called, as Christians, to a higher standard, but few of us can say that we've slit throats and seduced bathing women with our God-given political power. There are no excuses, but marriage and divorce is not the end all, be all, of the Christian faith and struggle. It is a central factor, and no small thing. But your life does not hinge on it so long as you are responsible, and accepting of your faults.

Very Well Said! I can't tell you how much I appreciate your thoughts.

 

[angelsword]

I can not help but feel I could be so much more victorious in my walk and at peace if I were not a soul crushing situation. But perahps that is the great lie? I do not know at this time.

..as the others mentioned, there is alot of both good and bad situations going on in the world. Many times hardships strike to make us stronger. I don't know why, but after a few 'soul crushing situations' in my life, it helped me to help others; and gave me strength for myself.

When you are under the pain, it isn't easy, I am sure so many realize that, but I would not want anything to ever separate me from God, after all, He is the only permanent reality in existence!

 

[angelsword]

Since Star White put such a clear cut view on remarriage for Christians; http://christianforums.com/t6962441

I figured I would also give some supportive input.

The Bible says that our body is the temple of Yahweh.
1Cr 6:15Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make [them] the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Cr 6:16What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Cr 6:17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Cr 6:18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Cr 6:19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Cr 6:20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


If this is so, I think a lot of people need to search themselves and find out if they are really getting remarried for personal reasons, sexual reasons. If their marriages didn’t ’work out’ why are they actually getting married again? Do they find it impossible to live alone and do the Father’s bidding?


Some claim they don’t want to be alone. Alright, look at all the people in the world who need help. Are you really alone, or is it just the selfish cop-out of the ’I’ society. “I” need someone, my partner doesn’t understand “me”, no one understands “me”.


In history, there have been marriages (and this is very rare) where sex was never involved. I wondered often if these types of marriages were involved in divorce, from one partner to the next with no one having intercourse with their respective partner, if the marriage issue and divorce issue would be that stringent? No one is going to do this by the way!


For those of you who don’t know what the biological aspects of sexual intercourse are, read a biology book. If you don’t know what the psychological aspects are, read up on health books or ask a doctor or happily (or maybe unhappily) married couple, if they are willing to share.


I may not be married, but in my opinion, I would never want to remarry if I knew my husband was still on the face of this earth! A piece of me would still be out there. If he died, that piece of me would be dead also. Biologically, I think it is unclean, psychologically, even if you don’t have feeling for that person anymore you shared your body (the Father’s temple) with them, so it runs deeper than you think.


Over all, I am convinced a lot of people didn’t realize what marriage entailed when they got into it. Society (Christian or non Christian) bases so much on marriage and sex, that they leave out the Godly aspect entirely. In fact, some people lives revolve around sex and the sexual. Remember the Bible says, thou shalt have no other God before me.

Exd 20:3¶Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exd 20:5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
Exd 20:6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
If you divorce, there is rightfully no more sex for you unless you make up with your spouse, so make up your mind and fill your life with something rewarding and fulfilling!


I have so much interesting things to do for the Father, that I don’t feel the absolute need to rush into marriage right now at all. My life involves so much more than thinking about sex, my life involves Yahweh and his will! That covers just about every interesting aspect in this world!

I remember one woman who is now in her 60’s said people got married at a young age in her day because their was nothing else to do! Sad, but true!


My advice it to search your heart and life carefully before you get married. Make sure that you get married because you love and like the person. For those of you who are married and have problems, before you so quickly blame your spouse, make sure it is not a case where you simply lack fulfillment in a certain area. Search yourself and make sure you are not at fault. When all else fails, ask The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit for help.

 

[HuntingMan]

Great...just one more dead end MDR thread

edited by HM

 

[HuntingMan]

With my marriage divorce is not an option EVER.

its easy enough to make the claim when your life hasnt been nearly taken by a spouse bent on killing you....

 

[HuntingMan]

A little background on divorce.
By WmTipton
Some teachings claim that putting away/divorce began with Deut 24. Others say it started with Deut 22. Both of these are erroneous fabrications as we can easily see from Leviticus 21 and Exodus 21:7-11 that ending a marriage was going on quite a while before Deut was given.

Putting away a wife had been going on for quite some time in the desert there during the times of Exodus, Leviticus and Deuteronomy. This putting away was being done by very hardhearted Hebrews, remember, this is the same group of people who had made the golden calf to worship it. Many Hebrews had little concern for God or His statutes.
One symptom of this hardheartedness, among others, was a complete lack of regard for Gods union of marriage. These were casting aside their wives for no reason (among other sexual immoralities), which Moses had to permit or else risk having this monstrous men literally torment or kill their wives.

If you break open your bibles to Leviticus 21, you will see that neither the priests, nor the high priest, could marry a woman who was put away ('divorced') from her husband. The high priest couldn’t even take widow . They were to marry ONLY a virgin of Israel.
(as a side note, if we use this for our basis, then some would have to claim that we can’t even marry a widow, something completely lawful in Gods word)

These women who were not permitted to be taken by the priests there are these that had been put away from their husbands for just about any reason that the man could think up.

Also going back to Exodus 21:7-11, we clearly see conditions where this “wife” was permitted to walk out of her marriage a free woman. This is unrelated to the divorce by the man for ‘some uncleanness' (for every cause) found in her by him, but it does help to prove that the ending of a marriage was not new to Deuteronomy as some assert.

When we get to Deut 24:1-4, Moses laying out regulation for a frivolous putting away that had already been going on by a husband who had no lawful claim against the wife (such as Exodus is against the husband). He isn't laying out an ordinance for some new thing called 'divorce', he was placing limitations on what was already occurring in Israel.

Thus he isn't 'defining' what is permissible for divorce in Deut 24:1, they had already defined this putting away 'for EVERY cause' with the manner in which they had been tossing their wives out, Moses is simply stating that if this man has put her away for the causes he had been, which is pretty much anything he deemed as 'unclean' about her, then he MUST give her a bill of divorce and once RE married she could never be his wife again.

Moses didn't define exactly what the cause of divorce was for in Deut 24:1-4, the Hebrew people did with their frivolous reasoning's for this putting away, thus the reason for the ambiguous phrase "ervah dabar"...he is, in this regulation, saying that when this man has taken a wife and has found disfavor with her (as the Jews were doing), some ambiguous uncleanness' (ceremonial uncleanness is not completely out of line here), then he is to write her a bill of divorce and put it in her hand and send her out (if he wishes to do so, this wasn’t a commandment obviously since God would never "command" a man to divorce frivolously).

To make it clearer, Moses isn't defining what they CAN put their wives over in Deut 24:1-4, he is defining what they HAD been putting away their wives for...which any study will show that it was for just about any reason they could think up.

The problem in Jesus day was that instead of helping the situation, Deut 24:1-4 made it worse because now the men turned this 'allowance' into a 'commandment' (see Matt 19) so that not only were these hardhearted ones putting away their wives for no just cause, but now they had a scapegoat to put the blame on....Moses...since supposedly he had commanded them to divorce.

When you read all the relevant passages regarding this issue, keep these things in mind and see if they don’t start all making sense to you.


I’m fully convinced, personally, that in His exceptions that Jesus’ main intent is not to offer any instruction on ‘why’ we can divorce, but I believe that His point is that He is assigning guilt where no guilt was previously designated. Obviously any exception shows condition, and that condition would clearly exist or it would be falsehood. But I believe that Jesus’ real point is mainly to show that even tho Moses hadnt said they were guilty of any crime in divorcing frivolously, that if they do so as they had been, the were guilty of sinning against their spouse who was put away for no just cause.

Moses had tolerated frivolous divorce from at least the time of Leviticus 21, but didn’t actually assign any real ‘sin’ as being committed when this man cast out his wife for no just cause.
The tone seems to be one where we might try to convince a man of the idea ‘NO...you CANNOT just go around killing people. ONLY if they are trying to kill you would you ever be justified in doing so”
You can see that there is no real ‘permission’ to kill people in what was said there, but only showing that while there may be some extreme circumstances that relieves one of guilt, killing is not generally tolerated.

The speaker there wouldn't be saying “Hey, wait till they try to kill you and THEN you can kill them (wink wink)”. That wouldn't be the point at all.
Nor is it Jesus’ point to say “well, you just wait for her to commit adultery and THEN you can toss her out (wink wink) “

I think this is the tone Jesus took in the gospels with divorce. No, Moses hadn’t assigned guilt in the matter, but from the beginning it was not so. From the beginning man and woman were created to be companions for life and unless some extreme circumstance warrants putting her away. If you cast her out otherwise, and then think you are going to remarry, sorry, you commit adultery, as does she, and anyone who marries either of you.
I believe the reason Jesus made sure to include the persons marrying either of these two is to show the extent of the sin going on here. That this mans actions were so terrible that it didn’t just affect him or his wife, that it was like leaven working its way out from one simple act that Moses had tolerated and swallowing up everyone in its path.

I believe in the gospels that Jesus is simply presenting that men were guilty where the law did not define guilt in their actions.
We see this very same concept just before Jesus exception in Matt 5 where Jesus tells them that if they even think about a woman sexually they have already committed adultery with her.

Mat 5:27-28 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Jesus is there also assigning guilt where none existed before. Internalizing it, making it personal. Defining ‘sin’ where none was thought to exist before. God wasnt just watching the outside of the man, but the heart and mind as well.
Oddly enough, in Matt 5 there while Jesus is right on that very train of thought He lays out the MDR statement.

 

[HuntingMan]

The shock value/distraction of divorce statistics
By Wm Tipton


This writing is more of just an observation than a study. It’s purpose is to inform our readers of a nasty little diversionary tactic used by some false teachings to divert the conversation from a legitimate breach of covenant and the subsequent lawful divorce and possibly a remarriage and bring that conversation instead to the horrid divorces statistics. They do this in hopes of causing enough of a distraction so as to make the person feel like they are part of a problem and committed wrong/sin when in fact they did not play any part in frivolous divorce or commit any sin.

Firstly let us remind the reader that we do not promote divorce. Our stance is, and always has been, one of ‘permitting’ divorce where all other avenues have been explored and failed and an ongoing covenant breach remains, or in cases where the person is in danger.

We do not dispute divorce statistics and that they are horribly high in many areas of the world today. We agree wholeheartedly that there is a lot of divorce, adultery, physically and sexual abuse, and endangering of lives of a spouse that is going on day to day in a huge percentage of marriages around the globe.
But we will not permit those divorce statistics to divert our attention from the fact that divorce was permitted for these very types of sins in the first place.

The Jews had been permitted many centuries of easy divorce with no guilt, no actual ‘sin’ being assigned to this terrible act of putting away their covenant wife simply to take another (as we see with Herod and Herodias)
When Jesus spoke to the pharisees in Matthew 19 we see in verse 19 that He changes all that. He has not ended the allowance for divorce, He has assigned guilt to the entire situation where the man has callously cast out his wife for no just cause by showing that, even though the man has put this wife away, adultery is committed against her still (see Mark 10) even though she has been put away.

Moses had pretty much left it so open that these men not only created a situation whereby they believed they were actually ‘commanded’ to divorce her for ‘every’ cause (some uncleaness) but because no ‘sin’ was assigned to these frivolous divorces they could get away with it no matter how many times they married, used her until they were tired of her, and then cast her aside to take yet another. (one has to wonder if the woman who had five husbands might not have been a victim of this sort of thing, being cast about from one vile husband to another hoping that eventually one of them would be true and just).

So Jesus assigns guilt to the matter in His ministry. These men who callously cast aside their spouses cause a terrible chain of sin and guilt and so they ought not do these things.

But Jesus was speaking about divorce ‘for every cause’...for no just cause at all. He also knows mans heart, that many men are evil, and many women as well. And so He gave exception in a case of an actual covenant breach.

When we get to an actual breach of covenant, then divorce is lawful, Jesus shows that these, in His exception, do not commit sin against anyone when they put away a spouse who has actually sinned against the marriage covenant with a legitimate breach.

And so we end up with two different scenarios.
In the first, the man has tossed out a wife for no cause and most likely simply to take another (a man divorcing so he can be alone with himself is quite rare indeed )
In these cases Jesus has assigned the guilt that Moses did not and Jesus shows just how far reaching it is. It affects everyone in its path and so should not be committed by anyone.

In the second we have a man who’s wife continually plays the harlot and has gone so far as to move from her home and into the home of her lover(s). This is a case whereby she has made herself the adulteress and so her husband might put her away without causing that sin himself.
Or there is a case where the wife puts away her husband because he is cheating on her and abusing her as he feels to abuse. She causes no sin on her part by divorcing or even remarrying later if it happens that way.


Coming back to these divorce statistics, we see that some of these false ones, when the truth fails them from Gods word, will use high divorce rates to try to shock the reader into believing that they are part of all that.
Let us assure you, dear reader, if you have divorced for a JUST cause, such as we have mentioned above, then while you may be part of those statistics, it is completely irrelevant that you are.

Statistics are numbers and have no bearing whatsoever on the lawfulness and justness of your divorce.
If 3 billion other marriages were frivolously ended, that has NOTHING to do with your valid, lawful divorce for a legitimate and ongoing breach of covenant.

Do not let these false ones distract you from the truth, dear reader.
If you had a just cause for divorce, divorce numbers are not relevant to your lawful divorce and even subsequent remarriage.

 

[HuntingMan]

If you divorce, there is rightfully no more sex for you unless you make up with your spouse, so make up your mind and fill your life with something rewarding and fulfilling!

Utter nonsense

ONLY in a case where a believer has deserted their believing spouse is there ANY commandment to 'remain UNmarried or reconcile' (Cor 7:10-11)

NO such commandment is given by the Lord to 'THE REST' who are believers married to UNbelievers if their marriages should end.

=========================================

"Remain Unmarried or reconcile” vs "not in bondage"
by Wm Tipton

Assertions/Conclusions of this Article
We will show briefly that the commandment of the Lord to ‘remain unmarried or reconcile’ is NOT a blanket commandment in all marital situations where a breaking of the marriage is taking place, but is instead directed to two believers who have left their marriage without just cause, and that Paul also had no commandment for those marriages that weren’t equally yoked, didnt given the same instruction to these who were married to an unbeliever, not having any commandment from the Lord in the matter, and then also offered a concession not given to those who were equally yoked to another believer who had left their marriage for whatever frivolous reason.

Supporting Evidence

Firstly lets look at the actual passages

"And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord, Let not the wife depart from her husband:
But and if she depart, let her remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband: and let not the husband put away his wife. (1Co 7:10-11 KJV)

vs

"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she be pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And the woman which hath an husband that believeth not, and if he be pleased to dwell with her, let her not leave him. (1Co 7:12- * KJV)

1.0
"Remain Unmarried or reconcile”

"And unto the married I command, yet not I, but the Lord,

It doesn’t take a rocket scientist or brain surgeon or even a biblical scholar to look at that passage as a whole, instead of breaking it into minute pieces as our false ones do, and see that overall Paul is speaking to two groups there. The first being those where obviously both the husband and the wife are both listening since Paul addresses both of them therein.
This idea is made absolute by Pauls making a clear distinction in his next words in saying “BUT TO THE REST SPEAK I, NOT THE LORD” where he shows clearly that he is now speaking to ‘the rest’ of married couples who do not fall into whatever category as the first group fell. These are defined as being those who are married to someone who ‘believeth not’ which we understand as as ‘unequally yoked’ marriage.

Notice that Paul makes it very clear that to these who ARENT married to someone who ‘believeth not’ that he isnt speaking, but the Lord is giving commandment to these.
Easy enough concept to see, to understand and to accept for those reading and being honest enough to let the words say what they simply state.

To these who arent married to someone who ‘believed not’, these are married to someone who instead is a believer. They cannot be anything else or otherwise Pauls words “BUT TO THE REST” when he speaks to the rest who are married make no logical sense whatsoever.
These in verses 7:10-11 MUST be those who are NOT married to someone who ‘believeth not’ but MUST be to those marriages where the person being spoken to is married to a believer. Being honest with ourselves, we accept the targets of these words to be those marriages where both persons are a believer...ie ‘equally yoked’.

To these, Paul shows that the Lord has given commandment if they depart to remain unmarried (ARAMOC/agamos/single/unwed) or reconcile with the man she left”
This makes logical sense and harmonizes quite well with Gods whole word and is even completely logical even if we set scripture aside for a moment.
These are two people who have compatible beliefs who, for whatever reason, have left their marriage who, as christians, should be quite interested in working together as ALL believers in Christ should be doing in order to be in harmony with one another.
BOTH of these persons, as followers of Jesus Christ, having entered a marital covenant and having set it aside for whatever frivolous reasonings, should be willing to work together to reunite what they created together previously and set aside without just cause.
The Lord has commanded these two believers to remain unmarried or reconcile this marriage cast away without just cause (as historical evidence of Corinth is quite capable of showing. That area was not exactly morally sound).


2.0
"not in bondage"

"But to the rest speak I, not the Lord: If any brother hath a wife that believeth not,

Now we move on ‘to the rest’....to those marriages where Paul is addressing the believer who is married to one who ‘believeth not’.

This is the greek for the ‘rest’...

G3062
Thayer Definition:
1) remaining, the rest
1a) the rest of any number or class under consideration
1b) with a certain distinction and contrast, the rest, who are not of a specific class or number
1c) the rest of the things that remain

These ‘rest’ are those that remain of the groups under consideration, which are clearly those whoare ‘married’. This ‘rest’ are those who are married to unbelievers, clearly indicating that the groups being spoken to in verses 7:10-11 are those who are believers married to believers...in other words, equally yoked.
Since the ‘rest’ are those who are Unequally yoked, logically there is no way that that Paul is speaking to ‘the rest’ in verses 7:10-11 then turning right around and addressing ‘the rest’ again starting in verse 7:12.

To ‘the rest’ who are clearly believers unequally yoked to unbelievers Paul has no commandment of the Lord but is clearly speaking his own mind in the matter. Believing that Paul may not be speaking by direct commandment, we still accept that he is speaking by inspiration of the Holy Spirit and thus his words are ‘law’ for these married to an unbelieving spouse.

Firstly we notice that Pauls words offer a more conditional tone.
“IF a brother has a wife who is pleased to dwell with him, let him not put her away”.
If this brother is married to an unbelieving wife who wants to live in peace with him, then he should not put her away.
This church had asked questions of Paul and based on Pauls response its easy to determine that they must have believed that if they became born again, that somehow they were defiled by being with an unbelieving husband.
Paul lets them know in this passage that that isnt the case. The unbelieving spouse is sanctified by the believer (in a physical or spiritual ‘cleaness’ type of manner, not meaning a free ride to heaven without repentance or anything like that).
These clearly were under the impression that it might be ok to just walk out of a marriage if they became saved, yet their spouse did not.
Paul straightens out this erroneous viewpoint and lets them know that if the the unbeliever is mutually ‘pleased’ along with the believer and wants to remain in the marriage, then they arent to put them away, and may even be key to their spouses salvation.

Paul then goes on to give concession not given to the two believers above.
First there was no commandment at all from the Lord to these as with the equally yoked marriage, but Paul now tells these that if the unbeliever wishes to depart the marriage that the believer isnt in bondage to this marriage.

Instead of repeating other studies here, please see this page for more on this point.

Now, these folks will casually leave out that Paul gives instruction to TWO different married groups there and try to apply 1 Cor 7:10-11 to ALL marriages, but this makes Pauls statement of ‘BUT TO THE REST” and everything that follows completely illogical and unable to be harmonized with the whole properly.
And the reason they need to pull this deceptive tactic is because they like what the Lord has commanded in verses 7:10-11, but they arent too happy with Pauls concession in 7:12 and after. It completely destroys these false teachings of theirs that Paul offers this idea that the believer might not be forced to remain bound in marriage to an unbeliever in whatever circumstance, and so they force the text to give instruction to a group of people, those unequally yoked, that Paul CLEARLY says he has no word from the Lord to.

Thankfully, you readers are quite capable of seeing the wording used for yourself and seeing what is actually presented by Gods whole word....

 

[HuntingMan]

I may not be married, but in my opinion,

So in other words, you CANNOT offer any advice based on EXPERIENCE, but only on a fantasy of what marriage SHOULD be and what you HOPE and PRAY YOURS will someday be should you ever marry.

Its pretty dangerous for someone who CANNOT comprehend the PERSONAL issues involved in a marriage to be trying to lay out rules and regulations FOR those of us who ARE married and who for a couple decades now have understood the REALITY and DANGERS of marriage first hand.

I would never want to remarry if I knew my husband was still on the face of this earth!

GREAT !
How wonderful for a person NOT YET married to have hopes and dreams like this !
MOST of us started out with the SAME hopes in our hearts !
I HOPE....I PRAY...that you will NEVER have to face the things that MANY of us do in your own marriage someday, but you are hardly in a position to make this sort of claim UNTIL youve been raped, beaten and then dumped by some animal of a husband like many women have been.
And even then you are still in no position to JUDGE anyone who DOES choose to remarry.

A piece of me would still be out there. If he died, that piece of me would be dead also.

We lose little pieces of ourselves every single year of our lives, married or not.
Its just part of life, Im afraid.
This is not any reason for a battered woman to feel that SHE cannot divorce her barbarian if she must, nor feel any condemnation later if SHE decides she wants to remarry.

Whether YOU would do it or not is quite irrelevant.

Biologically, I think it is unclean,

Sorry, but the ONLY thing about it that would be 'unclean' is returning to a former spouse AFTER we have remarried (Deut 24:1-4). "unclean' is exactly what Gods word calls it even tho some in the church try to force remarried people to commit that abomination.

psychologically, even if you don’t have feeling for that person anymore you shared your body (the Father’s temple) with them, so it runs deeper than you think.

Marriage is MORE than sex...

 

[dayknee]

Since Star White put such a clear cut view on remarriage for Christians; http://christianforums.com/t6962441

I figured I would also give some supportive input.

The Bible says that our body is the temple of Yahweh.
1Cr 6:15Know ye not that your bodies are the members of Christ? shall I then take the members of Christ, and make [them] the members of an harlot? God forbid.
1Cr 6:16What? know ye not that he which is joined to an harlot is one body? for two, saith he, shall be one flesh.
1Cr 6:17But he that is joined unto the Lord is one spirit.

1Cr 6:18Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.

1Cr 6:19What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost [which is] in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

1Cr 6:20For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.


If this is so, I think a lot of people need to search themselves and find out if they are really getting remarried for personal reasons, sexual reasons. If their marriages didn’t ’work out’ why are they actually getting married again? Do they find it impossible to live alone and do the Father’s bidding?


Some claim they don’t want to be alone. Alright, look at all the people in the world who need help. Are you really alone, or is it just the selfish cop-out of the ’I’ society. “I” need someone, my partner doesn’t understand “me”, no one understands “me”.


In history, there have been marriages (and this is very rare) where sex was never involved. I wondered often if these types of marriages were involved in divorce, from one partner to the next with no one having intercourse with their respective partner, if the marriage issue and divorce issue would be that stringent? No one is going to do this by the way!


For those of you who don’t know what the biological aspects of sexual intercourse are, read a biology book. If you don’t know what the psychological aspects are, read up on health books or ask a doctor or happily (or maybe unhappily) married couple, if they are willing to share.


I may not be married, but in my opinion, I would never want to remarry if I knew my husband was still on the face of this earth! A piece of me would still be out there. If he died, that piece of me would be dead also. Biologically, I think it is unclean, psychologically, even if you don’t have feeling for that person anymore you shared your body (the Father’s temple) with them, so it runs deeper than you think.


Over all, I am convinced a lot of people didn’t realize what marriage entailed when they got into it. Society (Christian or non Christian) bases so much on marriage and sex, that they leave out the Godly aspect entirely. In fact, some people lives revolve around sex and the sexual. Remember the Bible says, thou shalt have no other God before me.

Exd 20:3¶Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exd 20:5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God [am] a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth [generation] of them that hate me;
Exd 20:6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
If you divorce, there is rightfully no more sex for you unless you make up with your spouse, so make up your mind and fill your life with something rewarding and fulfilling!


I have so much interesting things to do for the Father, that I don’t feel the absolute need to rush into marriage right now at all. My life involves so much more than thinking about sex, my life involves Yahweh and his will! That covers just about every interesting aspect in this world!

I remember one woman who is now in her 60’s said people got married at a young age in her day because their was nothing else to do! Sad, but true!


My advice it to search your heart and life carefully before you get married. Make sure that you get married because you love and like the person. For those of you who are married and have problems, before you so quickly blame your spouse, make sure it is not a case where you simply lack fulfillment in a certain area. Search yourself and make sure you are not at fault. When all else fails, ask The Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit for help.

Completely offended by your entire post..Im not even sure why you posted it.

Especially your last few sentences..You certainly do not know anything in which you are speaking about.

I lacked "fulfullment" as you say, in my marriage..he refused to be intimate with me becuase he was LOOKING AT PORN!!!
Intimacy is such a beautiful and wonderful thing shared between two people who love, respect and care deeply for eachother. I would NOT go without it. It is GOD GIVEN...so instead of making others feel like they are falling short becuase in their marriage they desire intimacy or feel they are being neglected or are seeking fulfillment that their spouse had promised them..but hasn't given them, you should really worry about how you are miss using scripture and speaking about sex in marriage like its a bad thing..or people who are married wanting to be sexual with their partners like its a bad thing.

You know NOTHING about being married or being married to someone who turns out to be someone else..You have no idea about married life, challenges, joys, worries, hardships..you have not even experienced them. What makes you get up on your hill top looking down at me? And yes I say me becuase your post I am taking personally..You have not ounce of experience to speak about it either way.

 

[angelsword]

..is that, at the end of the day, Yahweh still reigns and His will is ultimate.

Elohim, I ask that you guide, love and help hunting man through the pain of his witness to a bad former marriage (no matter whose it is!). Please show him the way, the truth and the life, according to Your grace in Yeshuah's name I pray amen.

And also, lead Dayknee in the way everlasting on earth and in heaven. Never let them be afraid to be still, listen quietly and know that You are Yahweh.

 

[HuntingMan]

is that, at the end of the day, Yahweh still reigns and His will is ultimate.

youre exactly right....at the END of the day HE is King and HE is judge, not you, not those of your doctrines.

irrelevance SNIPPED

Please dont pray for me, poster...if you do this again Im going to ask a moderator to tell you to KEEP on topic.
I dont need your prayers in this matter.
What we need is from you is for YOU to stop trying to tear christian marriages apart.

This is just a convenient way for you to keep from dealing with the FACTS that are presented in threads like this that refute your claims.
These 'prayers' are nothing more than a distraction from the fact that your posts have been shown as presenting error.
This is not an HONEST way to discuss or debate this topic.
Your post is what I see from others of your doctrine when the facts have failed them and there is pretty much nothing left to say.

And when you pray, you shall not be like the hypocrites. For they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, so that they may be seen by men.....
(Mat 6:5)

more irrelevance SNIPPED...

 

[dayknee]

..is that, at the end of the day, Yahweh still reigns and His will is ultimate.

Elohim, I ask that you guide, love and help hunting man through the pain of his witness to a bad former marriage (no matter whose it is!). Please show him the way, the truth and the life, according to Your grace in Yeshuah's name I pray amen.

And also, lead Dayknee in the way everlasting on earth and in heaven. Never let them be afraid to be still, listen quietly and know that You are Yahweh.

Again...offended..
I do not need you to pray for me or my situation.
I am always led by the Holy Spirit..I am always being still and listening to what God has to say to me.

I cannot understand people like you who would make gross errors, and abuse any scripture to tell me how wrong I am about my marriage and what I seek in it..Or anyone for that matter.
You know nothing about Huntingman or anything he's ever endured with his marriages..it is insulting to even make claims or post scritpure as if HE did something wrong.
What you should be doing is getting off your "throne".
Christians like you are what make christians who struggle and have hardships in their marrige, feel guilty and feel like they are doing something so completley wrong.
You cannot just say "God hates divorce" and that be that..He may hate divorce..and its becuase of what it does to the family unit..but he also made a provision for it..
You are encouraged to read scripture and study Gods word..and not just one simple little phrase.
God also hates liars...and I can bet you have lied in your life..are you made to feel guilty over it? are you made to feel like a worthless christian??
Give me a break..
keep your prayers to yourself regarding me. I dont appreciate them..

 

[dayknee]

Well said on the topic, although I think people convince themselves that Divorce is an option and its ok I think it is VERY wrong.

With my marriage divorce is not an option EVER.

Hope your wife never beats the crap out of you and has multiple affairs..I think you'd sing a different tune brother.

 

[Leanna]

"angelsword" why do you keep bumping this more than one year old thread? Do you have some kind of preoccupation with telling other people that divorce is sin? I think you should let it go and give it to God.

 

[HuntingMan]

Hope your wife never beats the crap out of you and has multiple affairs..I think you'd sing a different tune brother.

You know, I know this dear old gent who was a pastor for a good many years who taught this horrid doctrine to his congregation for decades.
Who knows just how many marriages he personally was responsible for tearing apart over the years.

But what I found very interesting is that when it was HIS own divorced daughter that ended up wanting to remarry, this old guy literally changed his teaching to now say that the rules ONLY apply to men, not women.....just so his own daughter (his youngest and favorite) wouldnt be condemned by the teaching or his church.

As much as I love that old guy, what he did was so disgusting that I find it hard to even be in the same room with him now if the discussion starts heading in the direction of scriptures or the faith because I keep thinking of all those women, including my aunt who is married to this guys own son who was made to feel like a harlot because her ex husband threatened to KILL her if she refused to give him a divorce and then she remarried.

 

[Utah Knight]

there are two reasons in my opinion that a divorce needs to happen these are abuse and sexual immorality

 

[angelsword]

In history, there have been marriages (and this is very rare) where sex was never involved. I wondered often if these types of marriages were involved in divorce, from one partner to the next with no one having intercourse with their respective partner, if the marriage issue and divorce issue would be that stringent? No one is going to do this by the way!

Mar 10:11And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.
Mar 10:12And if a woman shall put away her husband, and be married to another, she committeth adultery.

The reason this is interesting is the fact that Yeshuah uses the term, "Committeth adultery".

It brings me back to this point; would Yahweh have been so stringent about divorce if people never had sex with their second spouses {while the first spouse is alive I mean}?

Suppose some one was remarried as many times as five, but never had sex with the spouses? Suppose it was a marriage of convenience, or comfort, but with no sex?

I know some people have sex before marriage, but will any one be willing to try marriage without sex?

I guess Yeshuah was correctly assuming [and rightly so] that anyone who remarries certainly isn't going to just sit around and stare at their spouse.

 

[angelsword]

I want those of you who have had messed up marriages to know that I am not going to quit until you find a peaceful way out of your dilemma.

I read a book about a Christian woman who was married to a man who simply was not supportive! His spirit was just wrong all around!

They got divorced and Yahweh revealed to her that she should marry a man she met a few years after.

I want you to know that I am convinced that Yahweh gave her the advice to remarry.

I don't know if Starwhite sees it the way I do, I must admit that I still agree with what she says, but I am in no way the judge of whether people should remarry after divorce or not, I am simply giving out what the scriptures say! What you do is personally between you, and Yahweh.

This is where I come in!

To put it bluntly, people just don't have enough people out there who love and support them! I am gearing up to write something about Faith, Belief and Society, because goodness knows we all need some encouragement.

I really love you all and care about you and want you to know a bad marriage is not the end of the world! Sure you gave your spouse the best years of your life! A man is supposed to be a tower of strength to his wife, and a woman should be a source of comfort to her husband. But even we as Christians fall prey to the dictates of 'Society'. This time, give you life and best to Yahweh! That is what lasts forever!


I am trying to organize a way to find a positive outlet for people undergoing and considering divorce. THERE IS A WAY OUT! That is why I was so particular about what I wrote in this article in the first place! I want you to be free even though you may be tied down and feeling confined!

If you are already divorced, please take the time to get closer to God and do some pleasant things for yourself! Give yourself time to heal! Don't rush into remarriage unless Almighty Yahweh suggests it! I wouldn't want to even ask. And that is my opinion!

Explore the facets of your life and world that you didn't have time to before. Seek spiritual fulfillment! Just give it a try, it won't hurt! And if you are hurting, talk to a friend or someone you love and trust. I repeat! There is freedom!

 

[jessesgirl]

its easy enough to make the claim when your life hasnt been nearly taken by a spouse bent on killing you....

Been there, done that.