Divorce, simply put

[MamaZ]

When a partner cheats on their spouse they break the marraige covenant. For now they have become one flesh with another. This is why the marriage bed is to be kept pure. If this partner repents and wants reconcilliation then it is up to the spouse that has been cheated on to accept or decline. For with the adultry also comes the trust issue which has been broken and now the marriage would need a miracle from God to be healed. Marriage is a Spiritual covenant as well as a physical covenant. This one flesh is done supernaturally. Marriages are very fragile and that is why the enemy of our souls is always after the marriage. It breaks up families. It is a devestating blow but still is a reality in life and even in the Christian life.

 

[HAPMinistries]

You should not return to your wife? Deuteronomy is dealing with unbaptized people, with non-Christians, where divorce is possible by Divine dispensation. But with Christians, there is no such thing as divorce and so yes, you are supposed to return to your wife if you have an affair.

When a woman marries another man, she is no longer 'your' wife.

Deu 24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

The woman at the well was not a baptized Christian but a Samaritan. She only even knew Jesus was the Messiah when He explained it to her at the well.

The woman at the well had been married 5 times, and Jesus recognized that. he did not say she continually lived in adultery, Jesus said you were married 5 times, and the person you are with now is 'not' your husband.

Your doctrine does not match scripture still.

Again, I agree 2 Christians should not get divorced, but the reason for that is 2 Christians would not commit fornication against each other.

That is the point.

There is no condoning of adultery.

What 'you' are saying is if your spouse decides to leave you for someone else, refuses to repent and restore the marriage, that the person who had remained faithful must remain so until their death, because they are not set free and there is no peace for them. That's wrong.

1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

You keep saying, well if they are both 'Christians'... we have already established a Christian would not be having an affair and be committing adultery.

Mat 12:33 Either make the tree good, and his fruit good; or else make the tree corrupt, and his fruit corrupt: for the tree is known by his fruit.
Jas 2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

So to clarify again, no Christians should get divorced, because Christians would not produce the fruit of fornication.... and even if they did, they would soon repent, conscious cut by what they had done. That leaves no room for divorce.


So OBVIOUSLY I am talking about 1 of the 2 could care less about God, decides they want the world, and they refuse to repent. God is saying through Paul to let them have the world, and you are no longer under bondage to them who want the world.

Free to start new.

 

[PilgrimToChrist]

When a woman marries another man, she is no longer 'your' wife.

If you are married, you cannot marry someone else. It doesn't dissolve the first marriage and create a new one, it simply doesn't do anything but is the crime of bigamy.

Deu 24:3 And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her to be his wife;
Deu 24:4 Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.

So you are trying to use Old Testament Law against Jesus and St. Paul? Jesus was well aware of this law when He spoke, indeed, He addressed it.

The woman at the well had been married 5 times, and Jesus recognized that. he did not say she continually lived in adultery, Jesus said you were married 5 times, and the person you are with now is 'not' your husband.

And the woman at the well was still not Baptized. There is a difference between the dispensation for divorce given to the Jews (and, by extension, Samaritans) and Christian marriage. Jesus says so explicitly.

Again, I agree 2 Christians should not get divorced, but the reason for that is 2 Christians would not commit fornication against each other.

Not "should not", not "would not", but can't. There is no such thing as divorce.

What 'you' are saying is if your spouse decides to leave you for someone else, refuses to repent and restore the marriage, that the person who had remained faithful must remain so until their death, because they are not set free and there is no peace for them. That's wrong.

That's what St. Paul says.

1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

You keep saying, well if they are both 'Christians'... we have already established a Christian would not be having an affair and be committing adultery.

So if someone commits a sin they are no longer Baptized?


Let's go over this passage again at length:

But to them that are married, not I but the Lord commandeth, that the wife depart not from her husband. And if she depart, that she remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband. And let not the husband put away his wife.

For to the rest I speak, not the Lord. If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she consent to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And if any woman hath a husband that believeth not, and he consent to dwell with her, let her not put away her husband. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the believing wife; and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the believing husband: otherwise your children should be unclean; but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever depart, let him depart. For a brother or sister is not under servitude in such cases. But God hath called us in peace.

You claim that if someone commits adultery, they are no longer baptized and therefore can divorce their spouse. So when would the first case apply?

Sin doesn't remove your baptism. The Pauline exception only applies to one baptized and one unbaptized spouse.

 

[sunlover1]

You keep saying, well if they are both 'Christians'... we have already established a Christian would not be having an affair and be committing adultery..

 

[Rose_bud]

... SIMPLY PUT

A kid, after being shouted at by his mom (sitting sadly)
Dad : What happened son?
Kid : Dad, I can't handle your wife anymore!
I want my own wife

 

[BreadAlone]

Even if one spouse had an affair . . . if the other was truly being Christ-like, I think forgiveness would be in order (unless, of course, the other was unrepentant).

 

[Rose_bud]

Even if one spouse had an affair . . . if the other was truly being Christ-like, I think forgiveness would be in order (unless, of course, the other was unrepentant).

I don't know much about divorce... but people can be married for years and harbour bitterness(unforgiveness about any number of things), against there partner and still "pretend" to be a happy loving Christian couple...

So does not "forgiving" someone for an affair mean ....no divorce...

 

[sunlover1]

Even if one spouse had an affair . . . if the other was truly being Christ-like, I think forgiveness would be in order (unless, of course, the other was unrepentant).

Interesting thoughts Breadalone
God loved us so much that "while we were yet sinners" He sent His son to die
for us, and we, who are made in His image, forgive those who sin against us.
Unrepentant or no.
Be blessed.

I don't know much about divorce... but people can be married for years and harbour bitterness(unforgiveness about any number of things), against there partner and still "pretend" to be a happy loving Christian couple...

So does not "forgiving" someone for an affair mean ....no divorce...

That's what I was wondering too.
If both have broken their marriage vows.. (Love, honor, cherish..etc committed adultery.. in deed OR in mind...bitter and unforgiving toward each other, as you
mentioned.. are they "married" or "divorced" (never mind the paper: letter of divorcement)
Hmmmm

 

[MamaZ]

If you are married, you cannot marry someone else. It doesn't dissolve the first marriage and create a new one, it simply doesn't do anything but is the crime of bigamy.



So you are trying to use Old Testament Law against Jesus and St. Paul? Jesus was well aware of this law when He spoke, indeed, He addressed it.

And the woman at the well was still not Baptized. There is a difference between the dispensation for divorce given to the Jews (and, by extension, Samaritans) and Christian marriage. Jesus says so explicitly.

Not "should not", not "would not", but can't. There is no such thing as divorce.

That's what St. Paul says.

So if someone commits a sin they are no longer Baptized?


Let's go over this passage again at length:



You claim that if someone commits adultery, they are no longer baptized and therefore can divorce their spouse. So when would the first case apply?

Sin doesn't remove your baptism. The Pauline exception only applies to one baptized and one unbaptized spouse.

Can you please explain where Paul says anything about a baptized person verses an unbaptized person please. This confuses me some

 

[BL2KTN]

Reading this thread reminds me of the damage that Catholicism does against so many people. It's just about to the point where I consider Catholicism and Protestantism two separate religions. The whole idea that you can't divorce someone, even if they threaten your life, beat you to near-death, verbally abuse you, harm your children, etc, is simply disgusting. To heck with the pope, I'll follow Jesus.

BL

 

[Rhamiel]

Reading this thread reminds me of the damage that Catholicism does against so many people. It's just about to the point where I consider Catholicism and Protestantism two separate religions. The whole idea that you can't divorce someone, even if they threaten your life, beat you to near-death, verbally abuse you, harm your children, etc, is simply disgusting. To heck with the pope, I'll follow Jesus.

BL

normally Baptists seem to understand the covenants are important, God joined two people together... and you think that we can destrory the works of God?
anyway, no there is no divorce, not that it is not allowed, but that you can not have it, it is not a real thing
Jesus did not say "divorce is bad" he said that if you get a divorce and marry someone esle you commite adultry

we do not say that you have to be with someone who is abusive, sometimes you have to seperate from your husband or wife because of abuse
but you can not marry some one else because you are still married
stick with Jesus, he said if you divorce and remarry you commite adultry

 

[sunlover1]

Can you please explain where Paul says anything about a baptized person verses an unbaptized person please. This confuses me some

I think she equates baptism with salvation.

Reading this thread reminds me of the damage that Catholicism does against so many people. It's just about to the point where I consider Catholicism and Protestantism two separate religions. The whole idea that you can't divorce someone, even if they threaten your life, beat you to near-death, verbally abuse you, harm your children, etc, is simply disgusting. To heck with the pope, I'll follow Jesus.

BL

Me too!
His sheep will hear HIS voice

normally Baptists seem to understand the covenants are important, God joined two people together... and you think that we can destrory the works of God?

Interesting question Rham!
But do we let the devil destroy the works of God? (WE are the "works' of God too..kwim?)

remember when they gave Him crap for healing on a Sabbath and He asked them
if they'd take care of their beasts on the Sabbath? IOW.. you guys care more about
rules and animals than you do your own familY??!..
This situation sort of reminds me of that "attitude" of the heart.
Just a thought

Jesus did not say "divorce is bad" he said that if you get a divorce and marry someone esle you commite adultry

He also didn't say that we can "act as if the marriage never happened".

but you can not marry some one else because you are still married

Still married??

 

[Rhamiel]

He also didn't say that we can "act as if the marriage never happened".

but that is what a divorce is, to act like it never happened

 

[BL2KTN]

normally Baptists seem to understand the covenants are important, God joined two people together... and you think that we can destrory the works of God?

That's what Jesus is recorded as having said when He gave an exception for "porneia." Ignoring that is ignoring Jesus. I follow what He says, not the later teachings of a fallable organized religion.

anyway, no there is no divorce, not that it is not allowed, but that you can not have it, it is not a real thing
Jesus did not say "divorce is bad" he said that if you get a divorce and marry someone esle you commite adultry

He is recorded as having given an exception for continued sexual immorality. If you want to disagree with Jesus, that's your business, but I'm not so mush-minded that I'm going to ignore what He is fully recorded as having said.

we do not say that you have to be with someone who is abusive, sometimes you have to seperate from your husband or wife because of abuse

A cheating, abusive, unrepetant spouse has broken the vows and the covenant. Jesus is recorded as having given an exception. Just because the RCC contradicted Him and kept the masses from being able to read what He actually said, it doesn't mean that modern people (who can actually read what the bible says) have to believe that foolishness.

but you can not marry some one else because you are still married
stick with Jesus, he said if you divorce and remarry you commite adultry

But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, makes her the victim of adultery, and anyone who marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

Matthew 5:32

That's what Jesus said, not the RCC.

BL

 

[Rhamiel]

St.John the Baptist was killed for defending marriage

 

[Rhamiel]

A cheating, abusive, unrepetant spouse has broken the vows and the covenant. Jesus is recorded as having given an exception. Just because the RCC contradicted Him and kept the masses from being able to read what He actually said, it doesn't mean that modern people (who can actually read what the bible says) have to believe that foolishness.

the Catholic Church does not keep people from reading the Bible

 

[HAPMinistries]

Originally Posted by HAPMinistries

You keep saying, well if they are both 'Christians'... we have already established a Christian would not be having an affair and be committing adultery..
​

A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.
-wiki

Christianity teaches fornication is a sin.
Christians refrain from sin, and when sin is committed, repent.

A 'REAL' Christian would not commit fornication.
Or if they did, they would repent of their sin, and refrain from doing it again.

 

[98cwitr]

the Catholic Church does not keep people from reading the Bible

not any more at least

 

[sunlover1]

Originally Posted by HAPMinistries

You keep saying, well if they are both 'Christians'... we have already established a Christian would not be having an affair and be committing adultery..
​

A Christian is a person who adheres to Christianity, an Abrahamic, monotheistic religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus of Nazareth.
-wiki

Christianity teaches fornication is a sin.
Christians refrain from sin, and when sin is committed, repent.

A 'REAL' Christian would not commit fornication.
Or if they did, they would repent of their sin, and refrain from doing it again.

A "real" Christian sometimes stumbles and commits fornication or divorce before heart wrenching repentance...
Ask me how I know.

not any more at least

Ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhh .. you so bad lol

 

[HAPMinistries]

If you are married, you cannot marry someone else. It doesn't dissolve the first marriage and create a new one, it simply doesn't do anything but is the crime of bigamy.

This is your personal opinion, this is not based on scripture.

God divorced in Jer 3, already established and quoted, so is the NT, the New Covenant bigamy?

Paul says:
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

You say I am under bondage and a criminal.

No offense, but I will take Paul's scripture over your words.

So you are trying to use Old Testament Law against Jesus and St. Paul? Jesus was well aware of this law when He spoke, indeed, He addressed it.

Jesus said:
Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another,...

Deuteronomy says:
Deu 24:1 When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her:...

Jesus - fornication
Deuteronomy - uncleanness
Are you aware they are the same?

now, let's put it all in 'context':
Mat 19:3 The Pharisees also came unto him, tempting him, and saying unto him, Is it lawful for a man to put away his wife for [every cause]?

Mat 19:9 And I say unto you, Whosoever shall put away his wife, except it be for fornication, and shall marry another, committeth adultery:

And the woman at the well was still not Baptized. There is a difference between the dispensation for divorce given to the Jews (and, by extension, Samaritans) and Christian marriage. Jesus says so explicitly.

This same Jesus that spoke to this woman ALSO said the former scripture quoted above to the Pharisees. You admit the Samaritans and Jews receive the same dispensation. Jesus still recognized her 5 marriages.

Not "should not", not "would not", but can't. There is no such thing as divorce.

I will agree, 2 Christians can not get divorced, understanding that Christian means the works as much as the faith, not committing fornication.

That's what St. Paul says.

That is not what Paul says, Paul says:
1Co 7:15 But if the unbelieving depart, let him depart. A brother or a sister is not under bondage in such cases: but God hath called us to peace.

So if someone commits a sin they are no longer Baptized?

If someone commits a sin, and does not repent, then their fruit is not the fruit of a Christian.

Mat 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
Mat 7:17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
Mat 7:18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Mat 7:19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Mat 7:20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

Let's go over this passage again at length:

1Cor 7:10-15

But to them that are married, not I but the Lord commandeth, that the wife depart not from her husband. And if she depart, that she remain unmarried, or be reconciled to her husband. And let not the husband put away his wife.

For to the rest I speak, not the Lord. If any brother hath a wife that believeth not, and she consent to dwell with him, let him not put her away. And if any woman hath a husband that believeth not, and he consent to dwell with her, let her not put away her husband. For the unbelieving husband is sanctified by the believing wife; and the unbelieving wife is sanctified by the believing husband: otherwise your children should be unclean; but now they are holy. But if the unbeliever depart, let him depart. For a brother or sister is not under servitude in such cases. But God hath called us in peace.
​

You claim that if someone commits adultery, they are no longer baptized and therefore can divorce their spouse. So when would the first case apply?

Sin doesn't remove your baptism. The Pauline exception only applies to one baptized and one unbaptized spouse.

I want to try to relate as best I can.

Baptism is a confession of faith that Jesus Christ is LORD of your life, that you are a Christian, and to live the life of a Christian, correct?

If a person makes this statement, then leads a sinning, unrepentant life, then was the confession real?

As I quoted above:
Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

We know this scripture to be true. Either people can make false confessions, or this scripture is wrong.

I will believe the scripture.