Divorce due to abuse

[SirKenin]

First of all, this thread is going beyond the limits of reasonable debate. If you can't take someone disagrreing with you, then either don't read, put them on ignore, or go offline to be mad and rant.

Many years ago, I was a virgin bride of a Christian man. My college sweetheart. I was faithful to him throughout our marriage. He was not. For whatever reason, be it anger, mental illness, etc, he began to get abusive. First it was verbal, then emotional, then physical. About seven years ago, he became so angry that I accidently dropped a broom on his foot that he picked the broomstick up and popped me so many times in the head and stomache that I miscarried a baby I didn't even know I had. Still, I stayed with him, because "God hates divorce". So I suffered in silence, lying to my friends and family about how bruises came to be. My self-esteem was in the toilet. My prayers became, "dear Lord, please just let one of us DIE!"

What was my crime? I was faithful, I maintained my marriage covenant. My reward was a husband that not only beat me and screamed at me whenever life didn't go the way he wanted, but also one that cheated on me with prostitutes.

Finally he took me to divorce court. He didn't want to live with someone who had learned Tae Bo and who wouldn't forgive and forget like she had a billion times before.

I maintain that I am blameless in teh shattering of my marriage. And I cannot believe a God of love would want me to remain loveless and celibate my whole life because of a past marriage to someone so seeped in sin that no one else mattered.

Malachi 2
16 "I hate divorce," says the LORD God of Israel, "and I hate a man's covering himself [1] with violence as well as with his garment," says the LORD Almighty.
So guard yourself in your spirit, and do not break faith.

To me, this passage equates violence with being unfaithful. No one should have to live in a dangerous situation or remain loveless. God wants us to be happy, and in situations of abuse, I cannot see how God would consider a second chance at being loved as a sin. But sure, I can perfectly understand how God could command my ex husband to never remarry.

E-beth... If your husband divorced you, and then slept with another woman, he violated the covenant and committed adultery. That frees you to remarry.

The parallel isn't there between your situation and a woman divorcing a man due to anything outside Jesus' and Paul's teaching and remarrying, I don't think.

 

[msjones21]

Okay, here is another seemingly bizarre and pointless question. When you petition for divorce you must state the reason whether it's abuse, marital unfaithfulness, or irreconcilable differences. Because the first two require you to go through a contested divorce (which includes the added expense of attorneys and losing work to spend several days in court) what happens if a woman or man who has been cheated on cites irreconcilable differences on the divorce paperwork just to make the divorce process a bit less stressful? Does that mean God knows their heart and recognizes their divorce or does it mean that God still does not recognize their divorce because it wasn't listed as being due to adultery?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I'm just trying to understand this from every angle. I also don't understand why a woman or man who was cheated on is allowed to remarry and be happy but a woman who is abused either has to just pray and wait to see if the monster who abuses her miraculously changes or be lonely. Many of you say that just because you want to marry doesn't mean God wants you to. I disagree. I've read in more than one Christian perspective book that if God puts the desire in your heart to be a husband or wife that it's obvious He didn't intend for you to spend your life single and celibate. I don't think my reasons for wanting to remarry someday are selfish or outside the will of God. I think I married someone whom God never intended me to spend the rest of my life with in the first place. Thank the Lord I got out of it safely and I was able to learn alot from the experience. He has since remarried. I don't feel as if I'm being cheated on and I doubt he'd feel cheated on if I remarried. There is no possibility for reconciliation for many reasons.

1) He has a child with his new wife.
2) He is happy with his new wife.
3) His parents hate me and would never accept the relationship.
4) My parents despise him for the abuse and would never accept the relationship.
5) He is no longer professing to be a Christian. He's just short of being an atheist.
6) He is now an alcoholic.

As you can see there are far too many factors working against a reconciliation. The Bible also says we are to follow the laws of the land. I went through the proper steps to legally make my marriage null and void. I didn't just run away. We did have a period of separation during our marriage in which I dedicated most of my time in heavy prayer that God would do a work in Jared's life and we could start fresh. After four months of separation we had a tearful reunion and things were perfect until about three months later. He slipped away from the church and would get angry with me for going. He did start having some physical involvement with another woman (the woman he's married to now) but I can't say that I divorced him for that because I didn't know about that until after we divorced. They never had sex but they did kiss and flirt and talk about being together.

Anyway, this thread is tiring and I still find it odd that the women responding to this thread have exercised more compassion than the men.

 

[EdmundBlackadderTheThird]

The reasons given for the civil proceding of divorce would not be an issue as far as I can see. You are right that God knows your heart and knows why you do what you do. You give a list of things that are current and use it show why reconcilliation is not possible, but what you don't realize is that you have given some of the reasons you are allowed to remarry. He has obviously had sex with his new wife, and has remarried, therefore he has committed adultery and hence you are free to remarry. You should have a clear conscience in the matter at this point. That is all you need right there. One of your reasons shouldn't be an issue though, and that is what your parents think, if he had not remarried and none of the other reasons were valid, had got help for his problems and was walking with Christ and you were also unattached then what your parents think should not have a bearing on doing the right thing, however it is a moot point now.

To address the issue of the Christian perspectives books. These books are not necessarily good doctrine and if they don't line up with what the scriptures very plainly state you should in fact just chunk them in the trash. There are plenty of books written by well meaning Christians that are meant to make you feel good and use bad premises to further that. They say God would not have put the desire in you to marry if He didn't want you to do so, that same logic can be used to justify just about anything you like. If it goes against the Bible then we must question the source and the desire itself. This is one of our enemies biggest weapons, you feel a need to marry and while you are free to do so based on his adultery what about the woman who left her husband because she just didn't love him anymore? She might feel that same need and that is not scriptural. We have to bring our thoughts in line with the mind of Christ and submit every thought and desire to him. It would make our enmy very happy to see us desire something commonly seen as good, that would be sin for us, and watch us justify that desire and go through with it. But again all of that is academic in your situation as you are scripturally free to remarry.

 

[SirKenin]

lol msjones What man thinks is of little consequence. God knows your heart.

In my case, I put "irreconcilable differences", even though the papers haven't been filed yet. My ex-wife is a venomous woman, and she swore to make life very difficult for me if I put anything but on the papers, even though she knew it was true. It promised to be a very bitter, expensive process for no reason. I already have the house, possessions and kids. What do I need to go through that for?

I had to weigh the pro's and con's. In the interest of peace and ease I chose to make the choice I made. Irreconcilable differences still holds true, but that's not the reason in my eyes.

 

[urbanlemur2003]

i came in at the back end of this thread but i have gone through this entire section in disbelief at what has transpired. i cannot believe the bickering and arguing over a situation that could have eventually resulted in the death of a woman who simply wanted to find a good life with a man and ended up with a horrible disaster. my heart goes out to you msjones21 and all the women out there who are suffering at the hands of men who think it is their right to beat the **** out of their spouses or girlfriends just because they feel like it. i cried at the thought of what you must be feeling as you go through this. the Bible is clear on issues and yet even in light of the transgressions of those in His time, He still had divine compassion on them and gave them the freedom of a new life to seek after. yes God is truth, justice and judgment. He is also compassion, love, forgiveness, et al. may we all pray for wisdom, understanding and His light that He may guide and direct us in the paths He has for us to follow. may God bless you all in your paths!

 

[charligirl]

i came in at the back end of this thread but i have gone through this entire section in disbelief at what has transpired. i cannot believe the bickering and arguing over a situation that could have eventually resulted in the death of a woman who simply wanted to find a good life with a man and ended up with a horrible disaster. my heart goes out to you msjones21 and all the women out there who are suffering at the hands of men who think it is their right to beat the **** out of their spouses or girlfriends just because they feel like it. i cried at the thought of what you must be feeling as you go through this. the Bible is clear on issues and yet even in light of the transgressions of those in His time, He still had divine compassion on them and gave them the freedom of a new life to seek after. yes God is truth, justice and judgment. He is also compassion, love, forgiveness, et al. may we all pray for wisdom, understanding and His light that He may guide and direct us in the paths He has for us to follow. may God bless you all in your paths!

Amen! well said.

 

[jobob]

...........Your logic is flawed.

nuff said.........

you lost me at ''logic'"

Theres plenty of ''illogic'' in scripture........Hebrews 11 for example ....

Theres also example of man going against Gods instruction/Law out of necessity.........


your serve.........

 

[jobob]

Thanks for sharing this, E-beth. I can see where people are getting their negative view of remarriage, but the idea that someone who suffered abuse should have the privilege of being married revoked because of what someone else did doesn't seem to line up with what I know about God. I had looked at that verse in Malachi also, and was wondering if anyone else understood it that way in regard to violence.

You get a lot of folks who get so caught up in the letter, that when some circumstance that scripture doesnt cover.....say a worthless dog of a man beating his wife and claiming christianity........they cannot look to scripture as a whole and see Gods entire personality to know that sometimes things are done of necessity.......

No woman WANTS to be beat.
most WANT a man to love and cherish them.



The marriage covenant must be broken in order to remarry.

Does a man beating his wife into a blood-soaked mess break that covenant?

Well for some it doesnt........but if it doesnt...I really think our Lord owes a lot of good hearted women in the world an explaination as to why....


Its pretty bad...........some folks have broken God down to nothing but a bunch of words on pages and make Him unable to forgive in extreme circumstances simply because its not clearly covered in scripture.
The god of the pharisees was hard and unforgiving too.


Jesus set forth rules on marriage.

NO more easy divorce.

Moses had basically given a man a license to easy divorce.

Jesus came along and says NO WAY............from the beginning it was not this way.......a man and wife need to stay together.
So He laid down a rule .......

Paul comes along......and sees there are circumstances where maybe that rules needs some modification based on a circumstance that Jesus did not cover (well, according to John, He could have covered it and it wasnt written)........an unbelieving spouse who decides to leave.

We fall back on Jesus whole idea for saying what He said to begin with......that Moses had allowed for divorce so easily because of their hardness of heart.......but no more......now you need more than just the idea that you are not pleased with the person to just divorce.......now the covenant must be broken for you to be free......

Jesus said for adultery only.........Paul modifies that based on circumstance beyond the control of the believer.........
I think that a husband who is savagely beating his christian wife can be classified as being beyond her control......

Folks can argue this till theyre blue in the face.....
Women being beat and abused are going to leave and theyre going to be sorry over it all and theyre going to repent and theyre going to be forgiven by our loving Father ........

Simple as that.....

 

[Lucubratus]

Quote:
Originally Posted by: urbanlemur2003




i came in at the back end of this thread but i have gone through this entire section in disbelief at what has transpired. i cannot believe the bickering and arguing over a situation that could have eventually resulted in the death of a woman who simply wanted to find a good life with a man and ended up with a horrible disaster. my heart goes out to you msjones21 and all the women out there who are suffering at the hands of men who think it is their right to beat the **** out of their spouses or girlfriends just because they feel like it. i cried at the thought of what you must be feeling as you go through this. the Bible is clear on issues and yet even in light of the transgressions of those in His time, He still had divine compassion on them and gave them the freedom of a new life to seek after. yes God is truth, justice and judgment. He is also compassion, love, forgiveness, et al. may we all pray for wisdom, understanding and His light that He may guide and direct us in the paths He has for us to follow. may God bless you all in your paths!


I'm sorry - I messed up the quote there and did a cut/paste, I was reading a great deal of this particular thread - I think about 15 pages worth and I have to tell you, as a newcomer to the board and having also been in a situation of abuse and seeing my Mom with this problem (not physical but a psychological kind) and having endured the same with my Dad and almost with my own 'legally married "husband"; a lot of the posts I was reading is enough to send a great deal of people away from the board and those weaker in faith, away from God. I just about didn't even want to post here anymore but figured; nahhh because I just won't go to a particular area of the forum where I see a bit too much zeal and arrogance like my own kindred and their spouses have. They're a little too smug in their answers because they think they're discernment of whatever scripture they are reading is the real and only truthful one. I can't even begin to count how many times people in religious groups will contradict themselves and/or maintain their religion and what they read in the bible is the only real way to go and if you don't follow it either to the letter or have enough wit to read between the lines of the bible then you're sinning and won't have such a grand reward in heaven as the one who does.
newsflash, we all sin even when we're not aware we're sinning and I hope it's safe to say to all demoninations reading this we all fall sight of the glory of God.
Again I'll say I'm not an expert on the Bible and won't be quoting tons of scriptures to validate or disprove anybody wrong but I attempted to put myself in the shoes of people like the 99 person who was talking about only one reason one may divorce. It did make sense to me even if my selfish human side didn't agree with it; I understood what he/she was getting at. But I also feel totally for MsJones21 and I see where the other side is getting at about their rationale that God would not want a person to suffer in such a circumstance.
It can all get really confusing, especially if you're one as versed in biblical lore as many here seem to be. It can get very contradictory but in my mind, I didn't see many posts supporting MsJones21 very much. I mean, If I had wrote of a problem and read all of this - geez..it's too much information when I think she needs support and teaching not preaching. It's fine to say where Jesus says divorce is not allowed but there's a lot of things not allowed and we still do it - and some of us like it when we do it. We're just filthy that way.
I call myself Christian under the sense that I believe in Christ and I don't consider myself religious in any way - I just would rather say I have a personal relationship with Jesus and God and will try to figure out the bible on my own and with any discernment God gives me for whatever it is I go to read. When I am meant to understand it, then I shall understand it. Until then my personal relationship with God has been lacking on my part.. but I do the best I can. I prefer it that way at this point in time, I suppose and it's one of the reasons why I don't attend any kind of church because of the kind of bickering I see here. I had enough flak from my in-laws because of tattooes I have and the subject matter of the kind of fiction I write and he asks me how can I claim to be Christian yet write the type of things I do? (Lord of the Rings type stuff)
By that rationale I could ask him how could he claim to be a Christian yet judge me and then turn around and start verbal fights with his wife and then she turns around and does the same?
MsJones21 - I DO pray for you and after all is said and done, I would only say just use common sense. That's something God gave us and I don't think anybody has to be well versed or bible literate to figure that out. Because I saw this type of abuse happening within our family, I wound up getting into a marriage that nearly repeated history. I had wit enough to see where the road was leading and got out of it before he hit me. I'm honest enough in my sin to admit I really don't regret it and if I see that jerk again I'll be turning and walking (or running) the other way. I'm a human with all the faults that go with it and life is hard enough without purposely putting yourself in a situation where you can wind up hurt or dead.
I skipped a lot more pages before someone finally said it best IMHO. That would be Jobob.


Just my two cents.

 

[football]

The main denominations have changed their views on divorce and marriage....
The main denomination scholars should know more than the rest of us!! They have access to the latest knowledge and resources.

Catholics, Protestants and the others including pentecostal and methodist all have recently shown a trend to re-marry divorcees in their churches....why?

+ It is proved that we know more about the bible now than scholars did in the 2nd century when only small pieces of the bible were available to study. A lot of our older traditional doctrine was based on 2nd century thesis.
+ New knowledge including the dead sea scrolls have revealed information about the way that 1st century jews divorced one another (including women divorcing men!!)

There are many arguments for the divorce/re-marriage topic, I would say that ALL of you should seek advise from the main denominations to ask their views on the subject....you will be surprised by the answers I'm sure.

To add: My girlfriend left her husband for me because he neglected the finances and mistreated her to the extent that she became phobic....i met her while she was still with him. We were non-christians at the time, we recently became christians and therefore are new creations in christ, her husband has subsequently found a new girlfriend....my question is: because we are new in christ are our past sins forgiven and are we free to re-marry because we were not christians when we met? I have had anwers from a different denominations on this question, I'm just interested in your views, also interested on your views on annulment of marriages being as this is a catholic site.

Let me repeat, see your denominations and notice the trend to re-marry in church, check the net, see the stats, read the views, these priests, vicars and pastors would not risk their salvation to remarry these people surely? They have researched, discussed and prayed on the matter. Open your views, do you follow the new knowledge or the traditional knowledge? The Bible is only reference agreed but remember if you had been a christian around in the 2nd century you would have been a different christian to today.

Jesus said something like: "You can read the signs of the weather but not the signs of the times". Todays times are tough, lets stop condeming other christians before thoroughly researching the topic and discussing it with people of faith and authority.

Editted by Football:

Also on the subject of couples already re-married living in constant sin...I do not believe this to be the case. Here's why:
In the old testament it says that we should not tatoo ourselves...therefore are we saying that all those people who have become new christians who are tatooed are living in constant sin? No!! of course not! We are new creations as are christians who are re-married and completely forgiven by grace. Paul says we should die to sin every day, in other words we are going to sin every day (all of us, even Paul, because he's talking about the subject) so we are created new every day by dying to sin every day, therefore how can someone who is re-married be sinning any more than the person who does a different sin every day....remember thinking you are righteous in your own actions is a sin, so we cannot avoid sin no matter what we do, so we all sin every day, therfore living in constant sin is what we all do......end of re-marriage constant sin argument. I've got a tatoo by the way, and I'm forgiven because I have repented.

 

[Lucubratus]

I'm just hoping MsJones is okay and the people around her?

 

[onetenth]

Hi all--

Let me add my two cents. I've looked over the last couple of pages and have gotten the gist of the discussion, I hope. First, I believe that abuse is never right and that if someone is being abused, they should get out.

Paul made marriage into a covenant. The man is to love his wife as Christ loves the Church and the woman is to submit to the man. This is the definition of a Christian marriage. If the man is not loving his wife as Christ loves the Church, doesn't that break the marriage covenant? Didn't he vow to love, honor and cherish? He's breaking his vow that he made before God if he is abusive.

As to remarriage, I would say that most of the time individual situations should be considered. Jesus' and Paul's teachings should of course be applied, with love and much prayer. As we can see here in this forum there are differences of opinion on the issue of remarriage. The best one can seemingly do is to make the best of a tough situation. Seek the advise of elders you trust, pray, seek God's will, and make the best decisions for yourself. No matter what you decide, there will be some who think you're wrong.

Tim

 

[onetenth]

P.S.--
My prayers are with MsJones and all those in abusive situations.

 

[grace4sds]

I am so sorry to hear about your past abuse. I am a christian and for my own safety I had to leave an abusive marriage in a hurry with my 2 children 14 years ago. I know and understand the dynamics of domestic violence. I want to say I wrestled with the same feelings you have. Fortunately I was accepted and loved into a very loving church. My desire is to be obedient to God. Sometimes things happen in life where there are no good decisions. It takes both spouses wanting to make it work. A spouse not wanting to work on a marriage (especially an abusive one) to me is just as much a sin as divorce itself. God has taken my life since my divorce and used it to minister to other divorced singles, and my relationship with Him has grown tremendously. I believe a married couple should do everything they can to save their marriage. But, I truly don't think God likes abuse either. You are going to be okay. Keep God in the center of your life and your focus and everything in your life will come together. And maybe find some christian friends who will care and love you. (Most of all...God loves you )

 

[jeshohaia]

I know this has been stated. The only reason, fortunatly and unfortunatly, is cheating.

As many have stated. Use the law. Have him arrested and press charges. So that he may know there is punishment for abusing a daughter of Sarah.

Sadly, this is not touched on in most churches. Abuse. Both physical and psychological and verbal etc. I am guilty of psychological and verbal abuse. I know it. But those old bondages have been lifted from me through G-Ds mercy and love for me. I no longer worry about loosing control. I have peace. So there is hope for your husband.

Further more, there needs to be awarness of this problem in the Church. So if the husband is not a believer his wife who is knows how to deal with this besides divorcing him.

But I do not support the scorning and name calling that your church did. That is not Biblical or what the Messiah would have done. I scorn them for lying about the word of love taught to us in both testaments of the Bible. Remember, Love is a key part of our ministry to others.

But that doesnt excuse what you did my sister. You did sin by divorce. If he had cheated on you then you would have been justified. Divorce isnt the answer. You could of had the justice system take care of him.

I just want to let you know that you are special in G-D's eyes. What steps to take now. I do not know. But G-D loves you. Any true believer in the Messiah loves you.

 

[jeshohaia]

About your second question.

As far as adultry is concerned. And remarrying. You no more commit adultry than he when he remarried. In fact, if I am under the impression. He did that first.

Ya, you divorced. But he refused to reconcile by marrying someone else. But he also was with that girl before the divorce was finalized. He comitted adultry.

Why should you remain single just for that fact? We are born with that need to have companionship that only marriage provides.

And it is not a repeating sin. In reality no sin is repeating. We are forgiven by the blood of the Messiah. There is no stone waiting to crush you. And anyone who says that she would be in a complete state of sin due to the divorce and the possiablity of marriage and eventual marriage of her, remember what Yeshua said, "Those without sin; cast the first stone..."

How can you guys be bitter towards any sinner? We all sin! I sin. I am paying for my past mistakes. I accept that. I was dumb. Leave her alone with the whole sin thing.

There is sin involved in all divorces. If you are seperated, divorced, going through divorce, cheated on, abused, did the abusing, etc. it doesnt mater, divorce is a sin. But in G-D's mercy are we saved. He loves us despite our inperfections. He knows we are sinners. But He loves us anyways. Thanks be to G-D for that.

So, live in peace msjones21. Dont worry about it. If you had come out and said that he had been with his now wife before the divorce it would have cleared the whole situation.

Confusing. But dont worry about all the people out there that have a bitter heart about divorce. Who decide to move on before the divorce is final. Who desire the same as their wife and they both get a divorce. They are no beter than any of us. It is all sin.

Once again. I deserve divorce. By what the world sees are right. But I am not nearly the same person I was 5 months ago. I do wish my wife could see me and who I have become. But that is for her to decide.

I could parade all sorts of people that had known me before and after my life altering decision. But that will not make her love me or soften her heart. I could go to her church and bring this up. I could have her and her family censured or kicked out of their church. I could bring this up with her Boss which I know holds the Messiah dear to him.

But how will that affect her? Her heart is hardened. There is not much I can do. Only G-D can work miracles. I pray for the same that changed me to change her heart. But she has to be willing to listen to G-D.

Some of these guys are probably biter because they see the same situation in their lives. Where they are being divorce due to abuse. In fact probably most of them. Verbal Abuse and Psychological abuse IS ABUSE!

I do not want a sorry bro from any guy. I rebuke my friends, my close brothers and sisters, when they say that they feel sorry for me. I deserve it. Just like all of the other guys out there that were abusive. You should be ashamed of yourselves. You sin too.

Eve wasnt the first sinner. Adam was. By not protecting Eve. By standing right next to her as she was tempted by the serpent to eat the fruit from the tree of knowledge of good and evil. He saw what was happening but he let it. He couldnt stop her. She was under his care and charge by G-D.

So repent guys. Come to terms with what you did. I have ran into so many "christian" guys who have been through multiple divorces. Saying that their wives did it. It was their fault. No...if you are divorced several times you have a problem. You need to check your self. COme to terms with what you do.

And for all that is holy! Treat your wives with respect and honor them! Love and care for them! Never take them for grantid. Treat them as Abraham did Sarah.

Enough of that. I am tired. But never scorn some one for sin. Because everyone is guilty of it. And I give you a big hug msjones for what you had to endure and what a testimony you have from it!