Divine revelation of hell?

[KleinerApfel]

I am referring partly to that book, yes.

I also have heard TV preaching that touched on similar revelations this week, which reminded me about the book, and caused me to see that this whole thing is becoming prevalent.

Several concerns cause me to reject the book without reading it myself.

I've read small exerpts, where the author says she was abandoned in hell by the Lord Jesus.
That goes directly against His promise not to cause His own to be punished for sins that he has suffered for, and to "never leave you nor forsake you," surely?

The devil and demons were "in charge" of the hell in the vision, and were impervious to its fires, but the Bible says they are destined to be chained and destroyed there, not rule it!

Jesus tells the author that it is essential she experiences this in order to know it's true.
What about reading the Bible? Would that not convince a child of God of truth?
And for those reading her book - what is the use to them - since Jesus allegedly just said we need to experience this first-hand?

There is also a great deal of graphic detail, very much is added to the total of all the Biblical accounts we have. The prophets and the apostles Paul and John seem much more guarded than this lady in describing what they had seen.

Just a few of the red flags that made me certain I would not want to read further, and certainly would hate to let it fall into the hands of my child or my unsaved husband, in fact anyone I care about.

Remember Lazarus and the rich man? (Luke 16)
Nobody is supposed to be able to cross this divide, and even if one could return from the dead, the unbelievers could not be made to see, according to this scripture.
We read instead that we have "Moses and the prophets" for this purpose.

I don't like to name names or denounce anyone, but on this occasion I am doing so, because I believe this is seriously extra-and anti-biblical writing, is misrepresenting Jesus, and could cause a lot of harm and distress.

God bless, love Sue

 

[BarbB]

Sue, A girlfriend of mine was a geriatric nurse for years. She said most people just drifted off into death, being old and sick. Occasionally, though, someone would scream for hours and fight against death with all they were worth. One man screamed "open the gates, don't shut the gates, open the gates" and screamed with horror for a few hours before he died. It convinced her that hell existed!

 

[KleinerApfel]

I am certainly not saying hell doesn't exist, Newlamb.

I am saying that God told us all we need to know for salvation in His word, and this lady has written things over and above that, plus some of it differs from the Bible, and misrepresents the character of my Saviour, who is not going to abandon His beloved child in hell, not even for a moment.

Incidentally I also have seen many deaths, and agree most are not dramatic.

There are all kinds of reasons a person might have a good or bad experince at that time, I suppose just as we have good dreams and bad dreams, reactions to medications, disturbed brain chemistry through illness etc.

God bless, love Sue

 

[BarbB]

I am certainly not saying hell doesn't exist, Newlamb.

....
God bless, love Sue

I know you're not, Sue. No, I was just relating what Mary Ann said was her experience. It reinforced for me that there is a literal hell and some people are aware just before their deaths that they are headed there, but it's too late. She witnessed to the one she described, but he was out of his mind with fear and COULDN"T listen. That's when I also felt the truth of "God hardened their hearts".

 

[KleinerApfel]

OK.

I'm off to bed now.

The best thing we can do is pray for the stubborn ones we know, because only God can speak truth into their hearts.

Night night sis, love Sue

 

[9-iron]

Sue, A girlfriend of mine was a geriatric nurse for years. She said most people just drifted off into death, being old and sick. Occasionally, though, someone would scream for hours and fight against death with all they were worth. One man screamed "open the gates, don't shut the gates, open the gates" and screamed with horror for a few hours before he died. It convinced her that hell existed!

I don't want to highjack the thread, but this would make a great topic for relating stories. Of course we have all been around people as they passed and I like hearing stories of Christian who see their salvation as they are passing.

 

[He put me back together]

There is an idea that says when hell is cast into the lake of fire that it too will be completely destroyed.
Whadda think?

The problem here is the word "hell."

It's an English word, not a Hebrew one. The grave is cast into the lake of fire. Gehenna is the lake of fire. Two ideas, not one--and, again, the lake of fire is not the only symbol that is used. Jesus referred to unbelievers (and "evil servants," mind you, whatever one wants to argue that an "evil servant" is) as being "cast into outer darkness" at the end of the age...nothing particularly deep or weird per se; the symbol is simply that the master puts them out of the His house.

In addition, Jesus referred to the "dogs" as outside in the last chapter...not gone.

Yes, the lake of fire is a place of destruction. The definition of destruction is the debate. And in my opinion, the traditions surrounding our unfortunate assignment of Hebrew theological geography is one of the greater stumbling blocks in that debate.

 

[Hadron]

No not at all. The weeds are demons not people. The devil can't sow people. Let alone the fact that hell is mistranslated it should be Gehenna or the valley of hinnom which is a place of purification. All flesh is going there. "FLESH AND BLOOD CAN'T INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD" so it looks like your's and my flesh is going there too. Basing a doctrine on a parble is not even bible 101.

Now, it's my turn. Scripture please?

One good turn deserves another...

Basing doctrine on personal opinion, is, in my opinion, much worse than basing it on a parable.

 

[Hadron]

And Sue, I have had a personal experience at church camp in my youth that revealed hell as real to me. In fact, you could say I was paralyzed with fear over it.

I think of it now as a warning for the life I was about to embark on. The road from there lead into a dark and dreary place, indeed, but thank goodness I was lead back out!

 

[KleinerApfel]

I don't want to highjack the thread, but this would make a great topic for relating stories. Of course we have all been around people as they passed and I like hearing stories of Christian who see their salvation as they are passing.

Do what you like with it 9-iron.
The original question disappeared down a rabbit burrow long ago.

Yup, hijack it or let it die, lets's see what happens...

 

[Angel*Eyes]

I'm not sure exactly where I stand on this issue.

I find it interesting that many people have had such varied descriptions of hell. Some have of course mentioned seeing flames but others have mentioned experiencing complete an utter darkness,etc.

Once I heard someone talk about how there are different parts of hell, so people's experiences will be different.

 

[psalms 91]

it is biblical that there are different parts of hell

 

[ILoveYeshua]

"...many false teachers"

 

[victoryword]

I read that book by Baxter many years ago. That book scared the living daylights out of me and I was already saved at the time.

I also heard about an ex-Buddhist priest who was allowed to visit hell. While he was there he saw two of his fellow Buddhist priests who had died burning and suffering. He asked his "tour guide" why these two men were suffering so badly. They were very good men in their lifetime. He found that the answer was not in attempting to be a good man or even a good priest, but to know Jesus as Savior. He relates his story in some book that I can't ever seem to find (I don't even know the author's name or book title anymore).

I don't personally dispute any of these "divine revelations" of hell and I even find them interesting to read and/or listen to. But when I preach to the average sinner about hell and why he or she should not go there, I prefer to use SCRIPTURE rather than someone's experience.

By the way, besides the obvious false teaching of universalism, there is a nother teaching out there which is taught by other wise biblically sound preachers that after so many years or centuries in the lake of fire, a person will disintegrate from existence. In other words, they believe that hell is not forever (they have their own spin on the word "eternal"). I personally don't agree with these teaching even if it is advocated by some people that I respect, but I am interested in what others believe.

Just to add, they have some Scriptures that they use to support this though I believe that they are misinterpretting them.

 

[enoch son]

And Sue, I have had a personal experience at church camp in my youth that revealed hell as real to me. In fact, you could say I was paralyzed with fear over it.

I think of it now as a warning for the life I was about to embark on. The road from there lead into a dark and dreary place, indeed, but thank goodness I was lead back out!

1 Cor. 3;11-15

 

[Hadron]

1 Cor. 3;11-15

Mkay... I guess we don't have to explain ourselves, we just drop a verse a take off again.

There are far more scriptures that speak of eternal separation of bad/evil MEN (not angels) from God.

 

[KleinerApfel]

There is an idea that says when hell is cast into the lake of fire that it too will be completely destroyed.
Whadda think?

Attractive idea, but where does it come from?

Form what I understand, punishment will be eternal, and if we alter the meaning of "eternal" to mean not forever but just for a long time, then we'd also have to alter it to mean we wouldn't be with Jesus forever either wouldn't we?
Anyway, changing the basic obvious meaning of a word would be cheating!

Many of us with loved ones yet to come to Jesus would so dearly love this to be true, but after years of being open to persuasion I haven't succumbed yet because the Bible really dosn't seem to allow for it.

Please prove me wrong! You can't, can you?

God bless, love Sue

 

[victoryword]

Attractive idea, but where does it come from?

Form what I understand, punishment will be eternal, and if we alter the meaning of "eternal" to mean not forever but just for a long time, then we'd also have to alter it to mean we wouldn't be with Jesus forever either wouldn't we?
Anyway, changing the basic obvious meaning of a word would be cheating!

Many of us with loved ones yet to come to Jesus would so dearly love this to be true, but after years of being open to persuasion I haven't succumbed yet because the Bible really dosn't seem to allow for it.

Please prove me wrong! You can't, can you?

God bless, love Sue

You mean to tell me that those of us who are saved won't fizzle out of existence after being with Jesus for a millenium or two?

You are right. For the sake of lost loved ones I would have wanted this thing about hell (and the lake of fire) to be true. But I have to accept Scripture over emotion. Therefore, the urgency to pray in lost loved ones to the Kingdom is stronger. Otherwise, if they were just going to fizzle out of existence I might not have that same sense of urgency.

 

[Pointman7]

I'm concerned about the tone of this... I assume we're talking about A Divine Revelation of Hell by Mary K. Baxter. First of all, the claim made by her is not the she actually went to hell and back but that she was given a revelation of hell, and then heaven over a period of time with the purpose of writing it down so that people might be saved.

Baxter has carefully backed up the things she saw with scripture. She has that respect for the word in that she is aware of the dangers of revealing anything that is outside the paradigm of scripture.

I remember hearing a tape on her vision many years ago. Vivid detail and with sobering statements. I still have a difficult time believing this actually happened. How do you validate this. Its make a great story! OK, it stays within scripture bounds, Soo! Even if she had a video camera and brought back a chunk of hell, it would still be hard for me to believe. In this case it, seeing(just to visit) would be believing but I don't think God is offering any winter tours right now. I'll wait for heaven, thank you.

 

[KleinerApfel]

Those of you who have read the book and like it - can you answer some of my concerns please?

The author claims she, a child of God, was abandoned by Jesus and left in hell for a time to suffer as a sinner would.

So is she saying He did not keep His word?

Joshua 1:5
"I will never leave you nor forsake you."

And punishing the righteous?

Genesis 18:25
"Far be it from you to do such a thing—to kill the righteous with the wicked, treating the righteous and the wicked alike. Far be it from you! Will not the Judge of all the earth do right?"

That'll do for now. Any takers?

God bless, love Sue