Dissapointment

[StarAnise]

I can’t really sleep in middle of the night. Many misfortunate things happen to me which I didn’t want until now. When I am young, I’m born in lower middle class family. My parents didn’t pay attention to me. My father is a drunkard. I was take care by my grandmother without any proper pre-school education. I tend lagged academically in my youth due to depression and I’m solely blamed for it. I joined the local church. I thought found a sanctuary which I could be loved and appreciated but I’m wrong. I’m simply judged and abandon. I still remember until the day now, I celebrated Christmas in church. They pass present to each other and I receive nothing instead. I stopped attending my local church a few weeks later. I graduated from my high school with reasonable grades and I enrolled in Culinary Arts School because I like to cook. I studied and work so hard for the thing I like but due to biases, I can’t succeed. My teammate took my creations and gives a good impression to my lecturer. I was supposed to join for the competition but due to backstab which contributes changing opinion of my lecturer. I’m not able to join. So this is the life that I deserve?

 

[drich0150]

I can’t really sleep in middle of the night. Many misfortunate things happen to me which I didn’t want until now. When I am young, I’m born in lower middle class family. My parents didn’t pay attention to me. My father is a drunkard. I was take care by my grandmother without any proper pre-school education. I tend lagged academically in my youth due to depression and I’m solely blamed for it. I joined the local church. I thought found a sanctuary which I could be loved and appreciated but I’m wrong. I’m simply judged and abandon. I still remember until the day now, I celebrated Christmas in church. They pass present to each other and I receive nothing instead. I stopped attending my local church a few weeks later. I graduated from my high school with reasonable grades and I enrolled in Culinary Arts School because I like to cook. I studied and work so hard for the thing I like but due to biases, I can’t succeed. My teammate took my creations and gives a good impression to my lecturer. I was supposed to join for the competition but due to backstab which contributes changing opinion of my lecturer. I’m not able to join. So this is the life that I deserve?

Yes it is what you deserve, because it is what you have been given, and it is what you refuse to work past.


Your life is like the one most of us have. The only difference between those who succeed and those who do not is how they handle "unfair" situations. If however you are having trouble managing your feelings, then maybe you should ask God to help you let go what you feel your entitled to.

It was not until I let go of my sense of self entitlement, and turned into my role as a servant of God did i begin to succeed in whatever it was I was doing. The thing is now, it does not matter so much how others view what I do.

 

[E.C.]

We have to work with the cards we are dealt with. It sounds like you had a rough childhood; take that and make some good with it. One idea could be to volunteer at a daycare or someplace and be with children who need love. If that goes over well, than your mind will slowly drift away from pessimism.

Did you speak to your lecturer? Do you have, say, drafts of recipes of your creations to back you up? Did you tell your lecturer what happened? Did you request a different partner? Those are some things you can do to help better your situation.

I cook at a restaurant, so I can feel your pain quite a bit. One thing that I will tell you: when people back-stab those who actually care about their job, than time will catch up to the backstabbers. In time, it will be clear as day that the backstabber stole your creations and that you were wronged by them. It might be a week, it might be a month, a year or even a decade, but time always catches up to those who do wrong.

 

[Birthew]

I know someone with similar childhood neglect, and it is very hard to move on in later life. All I can suggest, if going to church didn't help, maybe try seeing someone for therapy? There is this cognitive behaviour therapy whereby they help you change your perspective on life, to think about things differently.

 

[StarAnise]

Thank you very much for your advises and help. I felt just felt very dissapointed because all the while injustice has been going on.I can't find a way to presecute them and I don't even have a chance to do so.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Yes it is what you deserve, because it is what you have been given, and it is what you refuse to work past.

I can't believe you just said that. God is love. God is not in the misfortune this person is suffering. God is not expecting him to work past the situations in his life, he has suffered constant rejection. God would want to give him a hug and welcome him. Is it really what he deserves, to be told his life deserves to be miserable, the poor guy can't even sleep. He is looking for what God offers unconditional acceptace, and love. I suggest you revise your doctrine. If you were in a tough situation would you like to be told God wants this for you. Jesus came to set at liberty those who were oppressed, that means there are people suffering and it is not God doing it. We all need to learn to love more, me included, I am not saying I am the perfect example of love. I would probably be one of those people who by accident ignore the new comer in church too. But God does not ignore them, he knows their hearts.

Praying Gods blessing and love apon us all
This is my new website. Check it out if you want.
Home

 

[StarAnise]

I'm sorry to say that.May be I'm too emotionally unstable by now.I don't know how to handle this situation.I'm totally lost.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I'm sorry to say that.May be I'm too emotionally unstable by now.I don't know how to handle this situation.I'm totally lost.

I did not mean you, I was addressing the other poster. I though he was too harsh on you. God wants to help you. He loves you dearly.

I hope I can catch you before you go. I want to get to know you more.

 

[StarAnise]

Sorry,I made a mistake.I got your pm and i can't reply you because i need more than 15 counts of post.Actually I don't know how to continue if my life goes on like this.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Well looks like we are stuck with posting in the open. If there is anything to private for public speaking contact me at robert_mark_palmer@hotmail.com

We are both here now, so is there any way you feel I might be able to help you? All I know is in terms of God stuff, Jesus is really kind and loving. I pray that he gives you his peace.

 

[StarAnise]

No problem.I will pm you shortly.

 

[razzelflabben]

I can’t really sleep in middle of the night. Many misfortunate things happen to me which I didn’t want until now. When I am young, I’m born in lower middle class family. My parents didn’t pay attention to me. My father is a drunkard. I was take care by my grandmother without any proper pre-school education. I tend lagged academically in my youth due to depression and I’m solely blamed for it. I joined the local church. I thought found a sanctuary which I could be loved and appreciated but I’m wrong. I’m simply judged and abandon. I still remember until the day now, I celebrated Christmas in church. They pass present to each other and I receive nothing instead. I stopped attending my local church a few weeks later. I graduated from my high school with reasonable grades and I enrolled in Culinary Arts School because I like to cook. I studied and work so hard for the thing I like but due to biases, I can’t succeed. My teammate took my creations and gives a good impression to my lecturer. I was supposed to join for the competition but due to backstab which contributes changing opinion of my lecturer. I’m not able to join. So this is the life that I deserve?

Before I read the replies, I will assure you that you will be told you deserve this life, but I want to tell you a different story, one of grace. You dear one, are chosen by God to inherit a home beyond words, a home of wealth and priveledge. You are chosen to be adopted and loved as a precious and cherished member of a household. You are whispered to in love notes beyond your ability to understand and accept. You dear one, are the very center of a love story to beat all love stories. You dear one, are in the middle of a fairy tale story beyond your wildest dreams, but you aren't seeing it, you don't recognize it because you are seeing the struggles, not the love.

When you put on different glasses, when you begin to see things with spiritual eyes not physical ones, things will change, and you will see that you are not only adopted, but you are the child of a King, with an inheritance to dazzle the eyes and imaginations of the heart. When you change you vision, you will begin to fathom that you are royalty and stand amazed at who loves you, and who is a loyal partner in the Kingdom and to the King.

 

[drich0150]

I can't believe you just said that. God is love.

Tough Love is still love.

God is not in the misfortune this person is suffering.

ever heard of Job? Was God not there?

The qualities of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit can be forged and refined in these trying fires.

God is not expecting him to work past the situations in his life, he has suffered constant rejection.

actually He is. Otherwise these trials would not have been put in his path. Sometimes Trials are meant to break our will so that we seek His. If You have ever recited the Lord's prayer you will know that we are to seek "His will" not our own. (Thy will be done, not "My" will be done)If you can pray this prayer with earnest, but only know how to seek out your will, how do you suppose God answers that prayer? Does He send an angel to sprinkle magic will changing dust over you while you sleep? Or do trials generally forge, fire and change us?

God would want to give him a hug and welcome him.

When He returns home, yes i agree.

Is it really what he deserves, to be told his life deserves to be miserable, the poor guy can't even sleep.

Then He should stop seeking comfort in the things he has placed his personal self worth and value in, and shift all of that inner pride to God.

He is looking for what God offers unconditional acceptance, and love.

God's acceptance and love is only offered to those who Learn to love Him with all of their being and to love their neighbor as ourselves. Meaning God's love is very conditional. Unless you are say we do not have to love God nor our neighbor as the greatest commands instruct.

I suggest you revise your doctrine. If you were in a tough situation would you like to be told God wants this for you.

This "doctrine" as seen me through, all the things the OP has listed, plus a potentially fatal disease, a fail business, finical collapse, being married to a 200 dollar aday heroin addict, a toxic faith, several addictions of my own, and many many much worse things I do not care to share simply because it will sound like I am bragging or making it all up.

I have gone to the lowest lows and stayed there many many years before I humbled myself before the Lord and allowed HIM to lift me up. I've tried things your way, and that has only ever allowed me to rebuild my pride thereby reinforcing my own will. Then through much prayer, to truly know the heart of God and for Him to write this understanding on my Heart. He saw me through another trial, and another and another. One after another till one day i abandoned your "doctrine" of self worth, and Adopted His.

Until that my complete identity is solely based on God. Everything I have is His and Everything I am belongs to Him. I am nothing and no one with out God and on my own I do not have what it takes to even respond to this post. He has given me everything and I am absolutely nothing without Him. I say that with much pride. To the point that I am indeed proud of all of my weaknesses, because It more so showcases the wisdom and strength in the Measure of the Holy Spirit that is with in me.

I am not asking the OP to do, or look at anything I haven't done myself for the last 20 years.

Jesus came to set at liberty those who were oppressed, that means there are people suffering and it is not God doing it.

Yet he did not free slaves, or physically free the Jews. He freed their Spirits. You are wanting to free this mans spirit, but enslave him to the world's definition of self worth. Why not free the OP's spirit to the freedom Christ offers?

We all need to learn to love more, me included, I am not saying I am the perfect example of love. I would probably be one of those people who by accident ignore the new comer in church too. But God does not ignore them, he knows their hearts.

Which is probably why this man is facing this trial.

Look I am not saying there is not a place for encouragement, but there needs to be direction and structure for that encouragement. To simply write someone a "blank check" of encouragement is as reckless as you think what i am doing is. Do you know the term to "spoil a child?" It means to make a child rotten or no good. When we spare the rod (not use) we spoil the child. (Make him no good) God has seen fit to not spare the rod with this brother, do not let this positive, character building event be dismissed. Or over written in pride.

Again the best way through a trial is to turn into it and not to resist it or cling to worldly behavior.

God can only use someone greatly, only if he first breaks them completely.

 

[FutureAndAHope]

Otherwise these trials would not have been put in his path. Sometimes Trials are meant to break our will so that we seek His.

You are right some times it does take a tough time to turn a person to God. Becase of desperation they are willing to seek him. I am sorry if I missunderstood your meaning. I am sure from your words you have a very solid grasp of God personally. I just felt to be told that he needs to live with his sorrows would not help him, I felt he needed to know God could replace his sorrows. We both had a chat privately and I told him as much as I could about God helping me through my tough times and bringing me to a place of blessing. After much conversation he did decide to reach out to God for help. He told me the day after he felt free in himself, and a lot better. The goodness of God leads a person to repentance. God working in his life in that way may well lead to a personal relationship with God that is not self indulgent as you say. All I can say is, sorry if I missunderstood you, for from your post I feel I have rebuked a good man, so I ask please pray for him that he will do as I have suggest to him which is to build his relationship with God based upon the Word of God. He now at least knows God loves him and answers his prayers that is a start, before he came he was angry at God, and us all. Truely sorry for the missunderstading. I ask you forgive me, as we work together towards the same goal, which is to bring people into the blessing of a relationship with Jesus.

There is still one point that I disagree with, and it is not to try to fix you, I don't think there is something broken. I just want you to consider.

I said "God would want to give him a hug and welcome him".
You said "When He returns home, yes i agree".

Like I said it is the "Goodness", or you could call it "Love", of God that draws a person to repentance. Sure once he returns home God would surely have a party, and love him. But if we don't show that love initially. Letting a person know God wants to hug them, wants to love them. How will they feel compelled to change. Would you want to follow a God who wants you to suffer all the time. Sure we will have sufferings in the world the bible says so, both believers and unbelievers, but God sure makes life better. The bible says:

Tit 3:4-5 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit

You have recieved the Holy Spirit and that is awsome, and your experience may not be the same as every body elses. But Note the scripture: God, helps us, saves us, gives us his spirit, because of His kindness, his mercy, not becase of what we have or have not done. So he is not waiting for us to be perfect first. Sure certain blesings only come once you are saved, but he does not withhold his love to the sinner while they are learning. I just believe people need to know that God is wants to pour out his kindness on them. Once they know he is wanting the best for them, they will then be willing to follow Jesus, which will come with recieving the Holy Spirit once they understand their need, and being truely renewed.

it will sound like I am bragging or making it all up

That is the kind of testimony the world needs. One where they can see God's power to change their impossible situations. That is all I am really asking, is let the world know God has both the love and the power to change their darkest situations around. Just make them feel good about God, he sure has been good to you.

An if I am in any way offensive please forgive me I did not mean to be.

 

[drich0150]

You are right some times it does take a tough time to turn a person to God. Because of desperation they are willing to seek him. I am sorry if I misunderstood your meaning. I am sure from your words you have a very solid grasp of God personally. I just felt to be told that he needs to live with his sorrows would not help him, I felt he needed to know God could replace his sorrows. We both had a chat privately and I told him as much as I could about God helping me through my tough times and bringing me to a place of blessing. After much conversation he did decide to reach out to God for help. He told me the day after he felt free in himself, and a lot better. The goodness of God leads a person to repentance. God working in his life in that way may well lead to a personal relationship with God that is not self indulgent as you say. All I can say is, sorry if I misunderstood you, for from your post I feel I have rebuked a good man, so I ask please pray for him that he will do as I have suggest to him which is to build his relationship with God based upon the Word of God. He now at least knows God loves him and answers his prayers that is a start, before he came he was angry at God, and us all. Truly sorry for the misunderstanding. I ask you forgive me, as we work together towards the same goal, which is to bring people into the blessing of a relationship with Jesus.

There is no apology that needs to be made here, as you said we both had the same goal in mine. I understand that i have been blessed with a unique perspective, and not everyone has been prepared to hear it as I have. I know their will often times be disagreements. In this case I knew this person would probably have been overwhelmed with the support and love side that God can offer. I felt it necessary to bring the Yang side of what would be a primarily Ying discussion.

There is still one point that I disagree with, and it is not to try to fix you, I don't think there is something broken. I just want you to consider.

I said "God would want to give him a hug and welcome him".
You said "When He returns home, yes i agree".

Like I said it is the "Goodness", or you could call it "Love", of God that draws a person to repentance. Sure once he returns home God would surely have a party, and love him. But if we don't show that love initially. Letting a person know God wants to hug them, wants to love them. How will they feel compelled to change. Would you want to follow a God who wants you to suffer all the time. Sure we will have sufferings in the world the bible says so, both believers and unbelievers, but God sure makes life better. The bible says:

Tit 3:4-5 But when the kindness and love of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of righteous things we had done, but because of his mercy. He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit

You have received the Holy Spirit and that is awesome, and your experience may not be the same as every body else's. But Note the scripture: God, helps us, saves us, gives us his spirit, because of His kindness, his mercy, not because of what we have or have not done. So he is not waiting for us to be perfect first. Sure certain blessings only come once you are saved, but he does not withhold his love to the sinner while they are learning. I just believe people need to know that God is wants to pour out his kindness on them. Once they know he is wanting the best for them, they will then be willing to follow Jesus, which will come with receiving the Holy Spirit once they understand their need, and being truly renewed.

The "Yang" to this discussion, and the verse that inspired my response would come from Luke 15:20 So he got up and went to his father. (This symbolizes the change of heart that is the root of repentance after harsh trials)

“But while he was still a long way off, his father saw him and was filled with compassion for him; he ran to his son, threw his arms around him(Gave him a hug) and kissed him. 21 “The son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. I am no longer worthy to be called your son.’
As you can see even though God wanted to hug His lost son, He did not till he returned. The lost son did not return till after his trials. Also note God/The father in the story did not go and seek out his lost son. The son stayed "lost" till he decided to return Home.

That is the kind of testimony the world needs. One where they can see God's power to change their impossible situations. That is all I am really asking, is let the world know God has both the love and the power to change their darkest situations around. Just make them feel good about God, he sure has been good to you.

I often times wonder if God gave me too much testimony, because to some it seem as if I have too many "stories." So most of the time I keep them to myself so as to not ruin a biblically based message that will stand on it's own merit. Most of the time I will refer to my experiences as crippling trials, a few so harsh all I could do is fall to my knees and cry mercy God, mercy Over and over.. There is no thought or cleaver angel to be worked, when one is this broken. The OP is far from this point as his list and the focus of his list of grievances will attest. I do understand the need for mercy, but I also value and understand the need for trials as well. The Focus of this readdress is that "We" should all look for this balance rather than issue blank checks of mercy.

An if I am in any way offensive please forgive me I did not mean to be.

Again no apology needed, as I am nothing without the one who forged me into what I am now. It is His message I bring, just from a different perspective. I am just the crude vessel in which this message was delivered.

If you spill your milk there is no need to apologize to the glass.

 

[razzelflabben]

Tough Love is still love.

absolutely, but few of us even know what real love is...how can one declare themselves to be exercising tough love when they don't even know what real love is?

ever heard of Job? Was God not there?

God was in fact there, loving Job, and on top of it all, God was telling Job he was of great value...something that is missing when we tell people they deserve all the bad, without ever telling them they also deserve the good. You see, deserve is a word that especially for those in the midst of deep suffering means several different things. To tell someone in the midst of a deep low that they deserve this evil, drives them deeper down. They already get that, even if they don't voice it. If they didn't get it, they wouldn't be so depressed.

But where victory is, is in the realization that we do deserve life, we deserve life not because we earn it, but because our love value is so great. God loves us beyond our imaginations, and it is that love that holds real value. So we do not (deserve) as in earn the good things of God, but we (deserve) as in inherit those good things because we are of great value to our King. (obviously we are talking here about those who accept salvation and Kingly inheritance and adoption).

The qualities of the Gifts of the Holy Spirit can be forged and refined in these trying fires.

right, but first it is vital to understand that we are of enough value to be forged and refined.

Listen, I have struggled with self worth all my life. In fact, I grew up in a household in which I was daily told I had no value. To take someone like that and tell them all the lies were right, that they are of no value, is the opposite of the message God gives us. It is the total opposite of the message of "I Love You! I Choose You! I Desire You!" Our love value is off the charts, and that is why we "deserve" the gospel.

actually He is. Otherwise these trials would not have been put in his path. Sometimes Trials are meant to break our will so that we seek His. If You have ever recited the Lord's prayer you will know that we are to seek "His will" not our own. (Thy will be done, not "My" will be done)If you can pray this prayer with earnest, but only know how to seek out your will, how do you suppose God answers that prayer? Does He send an angel to sprinkle magic will changing dust over you while you sleep? Or do trials generally forge, fire and change us?

I don't have much to say here, my issue is with every person who takes the broken and say, let me kick you while you are down...by claiming they have no worth, that they deserve everything they get. Instead, we need to say, you are loved...you have great value, amazing worth, in fact, you have been ransomed because of your great worth...a ransom of blood...a ransom of purity...as to struggles, the value of those can only be seen once we fathom the depths and wonders of our Love value to God and our place in His Kingdom, His household.

When He returns home, yes i agree.

Then He should stop seeking comfort in the things he has placed his personal self worth and value in, and shift all of that inner pride to God.

pride is the opposite of love...just saying...scripture tells us to LOVE God, not take pride in Him.

God's acceptance and love is only offered to those who Learn to love Him with all of their being and to love their neighbor as ourselves. Meaning God's love is very conditional. Unless you are say we do not have to love God nor our neighbor as the greatest commands instruct.

wow, okay, some correction...first let me tell you by what authority I speak.

Several years ago, God placed a call on my life, to study Biblical Love. Since that moment I spend an average of 8-10 hours a day in deep biblical study on what real love is...in fact, it is such a huge topic that my husband joined in the project and together we will be (at this time, when we are done) 9 possibly 10 study books on what biblical love really is. These books will include SS type study as well as a deeper study, and seminars are currently being developed. The project keeps growing. In fact, so far, everyone who has read it for understanding, has not only been changed by it, but gets bogged down early on because of the convictions it brings into their lives and the lack of their own love toward others. That being said, let me address the above, based on that understanding of authority by which I speak.

God's love is without condition. I can provide you several pages of references if you like. Now there are several ways we can talk about this, but since you bring up obedience, let's talk about it from that pov. In I Cor. 13 we see that love always (depending on the translation) believes. The word used here for belief, means to be convinced of...it is not the same word that is used for faith, though sometimes it is translated faith. The word used for faith means to trust the thing we are convinced of.

Now as I study these words in scripture, something becomes very clear. Salvation is ours upon belief, not faith. IOW's salvation is about being convinced that Jesus is the Christ and all that that entails. We are however, admonished to live by faith, but remember faith is trusting what we are convinced of. Trust being something that we learn, something we grow into. In fact, trust is throughout the biblical topic of love and is something that love draws us into, but again that is a long topic, so back to belief and faith. As we grow in our belief, we discover that we are maturing from belief into faith. This faith, means we must learn to obey, to follow the commands, etc. You see, obedience of the commands is Not about salvation, it's about living in that salvation, it's about life abundantly. Salvation is about being convinced Jesus is the Christ.

We aren't quite done. When we go back to Romans, we see that we are to crucify the old man, and be resurrected into Christ. This is really the root of obedience, and obedience that demonstrates our Love for God. When we put to death the old man, what we are really doing is denying that sinful nature, rule, or dominion over us. Instead, we bind ourselves to a new master, to Christ.

Well this is a very simplified version of what needs said here, but I am limited in space and is why it will take at least 9 books to say all I have learned with lots left over.

This "doctrine" as seen me through, all the things the OP has listed, plus a potentially fatal disease, a fail business, finical collapse, being married to a 200 dollar aday heroin addict, a toxic faith, several addictions of my own, and many many much worse things I do not care to share simply because it will sound like I am bragging or making it all up.

we all have a string of pains God has brought us through, but the bottom line, is that it is Love that rescues us. If we don't understand we are Loved, we won't find the way out. The problem with telling the hurting they deserve no different is that they stop listening to the love that is being given to them. They find a hopelessness, that sends them deeper down. It's about words and their use and meanings. Not so much about doctrine. doctrine is of course important, but doctrine doesn't say you deserve evil, doctrine says you are evil...doctrine says you earn hell...doctrine says you have a love value beyond compare.

I have gone to the lowest lows and stayed there many many years before I humbled myself before the Lord and allowed HIM to lift me up. I've tried things your way, and that has only ever allowed me to rebuild my pride thereby reinforcing my own will. Then through much prayer, to truly know the heart of God and for Him to write this understanding on my Heart. He saw me through another trial, and another and another. One after another till one day i abandoned your "doctrine" of self worth, and Adopted His.

humility is where real love begins...and btw, see above about doctrine, the two are not as far removed as you might think. The core of this debate as best I can tell is not about doctrine, but rather the way truth is presented.

Until that my complete identity is solely based on God. Everything I have is His and Everything I am belongs to Him. I am nothing and no one with out God and on my own I do not have what it takes to even respond to this post. He has given me everything and I am absolutely nothing without Him. I say that with much pride. To the point that I am indeed proud of all of my weaknesses, because It more so showcases the wisdom and strength in the Measure of the Holy Spirit that is with in me.

I am not asking the OP to do, or look at anything I haven't done myself for the last 20 years.

Yet he did not free slaves, or physically free the Jews. He freed their Spirits. You are wanting to free this mans spirit, but enslave him to the world's definition of self worth. Why not free the OP's spirit to the freedom Christ offers?

what makes you think the freedom is to man's slavery of self worth? It seems you see love value as a bad thing, but in reality, it is the very thing God tells us is ours from the beginning of time and for all eternity. Do you realize (going back to I Cor. 13) that love is the only thing we bring with us into this world and the only thing we take from this world as well? Self worth is an understanding that I am of enough value to be loved. When we understand that love value, we have self worth, not an inflated, prideful arrogance of who we are, but rather, a true understanding that I am important and of value to the King. In proper context, it should spur us to obedience and servitude rather than pride and arrogance.

Which is probably why this man is facing this trial.

Look I am not saying there is not a place for encouragement, but there needs to be direction and structure for that encouragement. To simply write someone a "blank check" of encouragement is as reckless as you think what i am doing is. Do you know the term to "spoil a child?" It means to make a child rotten or no good. When we spare the rod (not use) we spoil the child. (Make him no good) God has seen fit to not spare the rod with this brother, do not let this positive, character building event be dismissed. Or over written in pride.

which is exactly what you appear to be doing by claiming he deserves no better. If we did not deserve a father, God would not be the FAther to the fatherless. If we did not deserve food, God would not be the Bread of Life....etc. We may not earn these things, but we deserve them simply by being human being so loved by God that He came to earth to show us the greatest love story ever known to man.

Again the best way through a trial is to turn into it and not to resist it or cling to worldly behavior.

I certainly can't agree with you here, right now we are struggling greatly with situational depression, fighting it, allowing ourselves to take our thoughts captive and replace them with the good things of God, is not only work, but the best way we have found to win the battle, and btw, it is the biblical approach.

In fact, if it had not been for taking our thoughts captive and replacing them with thoughts of God, we would not have survived the early days after our sons sudden death. That was almost a year ago. Just a few days ago, someone spoke to me about how encouraging it was to see our family growing into Christ and each other through a tradgety that drives most apart. That happened because we followed scripture and took our thoughts captive and in their place, put the truths of God.

You see, struggles are not bad, they are just another way for God to show His love. So when we take the negative thoughts, the thoughts of having no worth, and replace them with truth, something within changes us, we grow and mature and discover that we are more than overcomers..............

God can only use someone greatly, only if he first breaks them completely.

again, this isn't my concern, though we could spend time talking about it.

 

[drich0150]

absolutely, but few of us even know what real love is...how can one declare themselves to be exercising tough love when they don't even know what real love is?

They do not have to know what tough love is if they are receiving it.

Bottom line here is we have trials, God being the author and perfecter of our faith, it is He who moderates and applies trials to make us stronger in our faith.

God was in fact there, loving Job, and on top of it all, God was telling Job he was of great value...

Have you read the book of Job? Read the first 3 chapters and tell me again what God told Job.

something that is missing when we tell people they deserve all the bad, without ever telling them they also deserve the good. You see, deserve is a word that especially for those in the midst of deep suffering means several different things. To tell someone in the midst of a deep low that they deserve this evil, drives them deeper down. They already get that, even if they don't voice it. If they didn't get it, they wouldn't be so depressed.

Which is the meaning of "turning into a trial." It is To hit bottom and then ask God to lift you up. Not to avoid any pain and to guard one's self by applying endless affirmation.

But where victory is, is in the realization that we do deserve life, we deserve life not because we earn it, but because our love value is so great. God loves us beyond our imaginations, and it is that love that holds real value. So we do not (deserve) as in earn the good things of God, but we (deserve) as in inherit those good things because we are of great value to our King. (obviously we are talking here about those who accept salvation and Kingly inheritance and adoption). right, but first it is vital to understand that we are of enough value to be forged and refined.

Do you have biblical examples of people being in on the refinement process? was Peter when He denied Christ, know that He was being forged? Was Stephan ask if He wanted to be the first martyr? Was Paul's blindness given to him in a reassuring way? These men like all men suffer. It is what one does with his allotted suffering that separates the wheat from the weeds the wheat from the chaff.

Listen, I have struggled with self worth all my life. In fact, I grew up in a household in which I was daily told I had no value. To take someone like that and tell them all the lies were right, that they are of no value, is the opposite of the message God gives us.

That's just it, this post is not supposed to be about you. Nor is it about me. This is supposed to be about the OPs personal struggles and how it relates to God. What you say does indeed have merit, but is not the whole picture presented by scripture.
As i said, i knew there would be many here to offer blanket support. i wanted to offer something alittle more substantial just in case the things you were going to be offering meant little to him.

When i went though my trials I did not want to hear the comfort and "stuff" that most wanted to offer. I just wanted to know why and how we/I could move on. If that meant a hard look at myself and some major changes, fine. If it did not, that was ok too.

The problem you seem to have here is that you are assuming too much. You have filled in and have spoken to my intent where I had not. You simply do not want to understand a "comfort" other than the one you would want or give.

With all respect due, We are not all wired as you are. What of the one who was like me who simply wanted a straight answer and all he got was "fluff?" Should he fall through the cracks simply because people like you want to build on their self esteem, rather than find and address the meaning of a trial?

Not all of us are "eyes." 'Eye drops' will not fix every problem the body has. Hand and feet need to be scrubbed. Because I/we did not know who this person was by the first post (other than He was at a loss) i thought it best to provide my end of the "comfort" spectrum, as well as allow the fluffy end that i knew was coming.

In short do not look at what i am present as an either or, but a supplement or a safety net to catch those who WILL fall through your best efforts.

I did read the rest of your reply but as i said It seems like most of it was based on a wrong assumption of my work, and does not need to be addressed. If you feel I have missed something then cut and paste what you want me to reexamine.

I am sorry if I do not see things as you do, but at the same time that is why "The Body" is made up of different parts. So that we may function and adapt as a given situation unfolds, rather than being forced to have one answer one response to all problems.

 

[razzelflabben]

They do not have to know what tough love is if they are receiving it.

read the comment, it is directed at those giving tough love not receiving it.

Bottom line here is we have trials, God being the author and perfecter of our faith, it is He who moderates and applies trials to make us stronger in our faith.

no contest, but that is not the point of contention I am presenting. Trials, though they don't feel like it at the time, are incredible gifts of love from out Lord. But again, that is not where you and I disagree.

Have you read the book of Job? Read the first 3 chapters and tell me again what God told Job.

????? Wouldn't this exercise only prove beneficial if we did not agree that trials are good? Personally, I would rather talk about the things we disagree on, than the things we agree on...seems more beneficial to learning...

Which is the meaning of "turning into a trial." It is To hit bottom and then ask God to lift you up. Not to avoid any pain and to guard one's self by applying endless affirmation.

who is suggesting we try to avoid all pain? In fact, when we look at both Father love and King love, we see that there is a loyalty, an obedience that is necessary and that loyalty and obedience takes us down the road of testimony to the real true, and living God. IOW's trials and suffering are an opertunity for us to show the power of God within to a hurting world. It is that trial and struggle that gives us a testimony to who God is and what He wants for us, to become more than overcomers. How can we be overcomers if there is nothing to overcome? How can we know His strength is made complete in our weakness if we never have weakness? How can we know there is joy in the midst of great suffering if we never suffer? Point being, you are acting as though I disagree that we are going to suffer. Truth be known, I'm the first to say that suffering is not only inevitable, but good and healthy and a testimony to the wonders of a living God. Never ever shrink back from suffering, stand firm, face it, and rejoice in it...James is a great place to go when one suffers.

Do you have biblical examples of people being in on the refinement process? was Peter when He denied Christ, know that He was being forged? Was Stephan ask if He wanted to be the first martyr? Was Paul's blindness given to him in a reassuring way? These men like all men suffer. It is what one does with his allotted suffering that separates the wheat from the weeds the wheat from the chaff.

I have no understanding of what you intend with these questions, especially when it comes to the point I was making that you reference to...if you give me some guidance as to your intent, maybe I can answer them, as it is, I wouldn't know what kind of answer you want, as in specific reply...thanks

That's just it, this post is not supposed to be about you. Nor is it about me. This is supposed to be about the OPs personal struggles and how it relates to God. What you say does indeed have merit, but is not the whole picture presented by scripture.
As i said, i knew there would be many here to offer blanket support. i wanted to offer something alittle more substantial just in case the things you were going to be offering meant little to him.

so what exactly, specifically do you think I missed? I see nothing I missed in fact, just the opposite. I talked about suffering and how it brings truth, I talked about grace and how we cannot earn our way to God. I talked about Love and how we are loved from the beginning with a passionate, eternal love. I talked about our failure to be enough on our own merit. (and a few other things) what I can glean from what you have said is only that suffering is what we all deserve, so get over yourself and move on. Which btw, is not very loving.

When i went though my trials I did not want to hear the comfort and "stuff" that most wanted to offer. I just wanted to know why and how we/I could move on. If that meant a hard look at myself and some major changes, fine. If it did not, that was ok too.

that's cool, but you can't really fathom the why and hows if you don't first understand that it is here because of love not despite love. IOW's the trial is here because you are loved, not apart from that love. When you grasp that, your entire perspective of the trial changes. And btw, if we consider that everything God does and says is about love, we also understand this is a biblical concept. Consider scripture (references provided upon request) It is Love that not only sums up the entire law and prophets (the center or core of all that God is and does) but it is love that fulfills the law (again the center or core of all that God is and does).

I mentioned (I think may have been a different thread) that our son died almost a year ago. His death was sudden and a total shock to us. Most people who loose a child like that, get angry with God, they don't understand it, can't fathom it. There are currently two people in our local body who are asking the questions "why does God hate us" because of the losses they have known this year. When something like this happens, most people ask, "why? Why me"...the difference is, when we understand that this thing was allowed to happen because we are loved by God, those questions change to "what now? How can I serve YOU (God) through this thing?" The why me? changes to a why of purpose and growth, which is full of healing and strength. But before we can ask those questions, we must understand that this thing, whatever it is, is not ours because we are so despised, but rather because we are so very loved.

The problem you seem to have here is that you are assuming too much. You have filled in and have spoken to my intent where I had not. You simply do not want to understand a "comfort" other than the one you would want or give.

again, not a clue what you intend here especially as it relates to my comments..let me read it again and see if it makes more sense...no, still don't understand your comment...do you really think that God expects us not to Love one who is hurting? My comments are about understanding and accepting God's love, even in the midst of trial, it sounds like you are somehow saying that is not God's way, and yet scripture tells us that God is the very nature of God and it is the same nature, the nature of Love that man was created to desire and seek. If we remove love from the struggle, what are we left with except for worldly answers?

With all respect due, We are not all wired as you are. What of the one who was like me who simply wanted a straight answer and all he got was "fluff?" Should he fall through the cracks simply because people like you want to build on their self esteem, rather than find and address the meaning of a trial?

what other answers are there from scripture than Love? Remember love sums up all the law and all the prophets, love is the fulfillment of that same law, love is so much the nature of God that scripture tells us God is love. I assure you Love is anything but fluff. In fact, if you want a real challenge in your life, try to understand how a God who loves you with a pure undefiled love could take your son without warning, at the age of 18. IF you want a real challenge, figure out how the man or woman who is tortured for Christ can say, I am loved because God has brought this thing to me. If you want a real challenge, figure out how the man or woman who caused an accident that took a young life, can testify to how much God loves them, not despite the trial, not through the trial, but by the trial. I assure you, most cannot and will not ever allow themselves to understand this kind of passionate love. In fact, it is so challenging that God gave us an entire bible to tell us about it, and you call it fluff?!? If judgement fluff? Is justice fluff? Maybe you think correction or death is fluff? Or is it grace, that you think is nothing more than fluff? In relation to what I have really said, and I mean this with complete respect, you neither understand what love is, nor do you address your trials through God's eyes, but rather the worlds. Now I accept we might be talking past one another, especially in that there have been two times now I had no clue how your comments related to what I said, but from the comments you have made as they apply to what I am saying, you are allowing the world to tell you how to find healing, rather than God telling you how.

Not all of us are "eyes." 'Eye drops' will not fix every problem the body has. Hand and feet need to be scrubbed. Because I/we did not know who this person was by the first post (other than He was at a loss) i thought it best to provide my end of the "comfort" spectrum, as well as allow the fluffy end that i knew was coming.

again, what do you think love is that you call it fluffy? Love is what brings trials to our door, love is what tells us to rejoice through them, is that really your idea of fluffy? If so, I need a better understanding of what you think tough really is.

In short do not look at what i am present as an either or, but a supplement or a safety net to catch those who WILL fall through your best efforts.

The only message I plan to bring to anyone who is hurting, is God's message, if that is outside your plan, that is something you need to deal with. Consider this, one of many burdens I have been asked to bear is that I come from an abusive household. As such, I know the pains of the OPer very well. Different circumstances, same pains. When the world tried to address the issue, I was left empty and hollow, without answers, you know, the answers you claim to seek after. But when God addressed the issue, I found healing and contentment and joy. you act as if love means we can't suffer, as if love means that we will never hurt again, this is the world's answer, the worlds definition, the worlds reply to suffering, not mine. My reply is to see things through the eyes of Christ, to understand that this too is His perfect and righteous love.

I am really anxious to hear how you think real love is fluff...please be sure to answer that question for me...it is important to the work God is asking of me.

I did read the rest of your reply but as i said It seems like most of it was based on a wrong assumption of my work, and does not need to be addressed. If you feel I have missed something then cut and paste what you want me to reexamine.

as best I can tell, you are pulling out of my post things that you think you can disagree with and ignoring the point I am making. My point is that real love, biblical love is the reason this suffering has come to you and when you begin to fathom what that means you will find a healing beyond your wildest dreams.

I am sorry if I do not see things as you do, but at the same time that is why "The Body" is made up of different parts. So that we may function and adapt as a given situation unfolds, rather than being forced to have one answer one response to all problems.

no problem there, but when God says Love is the answer, I got to side with Him over the world. My guess is that you aren't really hearing what I am saying and instead applying the worlds understanding to what you assume I will say...but that is just my guess based on all the many times I have found people who think they understand love but don't really have a clue. Which is most of the church sadly to say. My guess is that if you stop putting the worlds definitions to your understandings and start putting God's definitions to the words, you would find that we agree more than we disagree. In fact, there is only really one word we disagree on as best I can tell. A word that can remove all understanding of love if not explained, which I don't see being done or at least done efficiently.

Nice chatting with you....

 

[drich0150]

Nice chatting with you....

 

[razzelflabben]

Does this mean you will not be helping me with my study of love by explaining to me what you think the fluff part of real love is? It's the one question I was anxious for an answer on...what part of real love is fluff?