Displaced persons

[timothyu]

This world is made in a state of constant reproduction, life and death, life and death, cyclic, where everything is food for something else. It thrives on death. We weren't originally from this world but were cast out of the Garden and into it. Had we not been, what was the original purpose of this world we are now part of?

Is there any truth in the old Hebrew concept that this world was the creation of a rebellious angel who still rules it, and once we also rebelled, it became the perfect fit for all of us?

 

[Sketcher]

This world is made in a state of constant reproduction, life and death, life and death, cyclic, where everything is food for something else. It thrives on death. We weren't originally from this world but were cast out of the Garden and into it. Had we not been, what was the original purpose of this world we are now part of?

Is there any truth in the old Hebrew concept that this world was the creation of a rebellious angel who still rules it, and once we also rebelled, it became the perfect fit for all of us?

Genesis 1-2 explicitly teaches that God was and is the Creator.

If you're talking about this world's system, that would be more in line with orthodoxy - but I believe there have been multiple systems used in this world's history which all fall short in some way, so I don't think it's proper to box it all under a single system.

 

[Abaxvahl]

This world is made in a state of constant reproduction, life and death, life and death, cyclic, where everything is food for something else. It thrives on death. We weren't originally from this world but were cast out of the Garden and into it. Had we not been, what was the original purpose of this world we are now part of?

Is there any truth in the old Hebrew concept that this world was the creation of a rebellious angel who still rules it, and once we also rebelled, it became the perfect fit for all of us?

No persons but the Holy Trinity have the ability to create out of nothing, so if that is what they mean then that concept is horrifically wrong.

If it means that he rules it like a ruler who has been placed in something to guide it, then perhaps. That is a more common idea. A sinful ruler makes bad for the whole space which is ruled, so it would explain some of the chaos.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

God created this world as good. Satan cannot create, he can only duplicate. Also, there is too much good in this world to attribute it to a demonic (demiurge), even though there is much evil as well (evil being the deprivation of good).
Think of Eden more like a Temple that sits in the middle of a plain. The plain-country is not bad, it's good. The Temple is there in service of the plain and that which thrives on it.

This world is made in a state of constant reproduction, life and death, life and death, cyclic, where everything is food for something else. It thrives on death. We weren't originally from this world but were cast out of the Garden and into it. Had we not been, what was the original purpose of this world we are now part of?

Is there any truth in the old Hebrew concept that this world was the creation of a rebellious angel who still rules it, and once we also rebelled, it became the perfect fit for all of us?

 

[timothyu]

So if God is all about life, and we were not supposed to be here in the first place.. why create it like this, a world of death and rebirth, a world built upon opposing forces?

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

So if God is all about life, and we were not supposed to be here in the first place.. why create it like this, a world of death and rebirth?

Death, specifically the Death of Christ was always a part of the plan.

 

[TheWhat?]

I don't consider that to be a Hebrew concept -- that a rebellious angel is somehow "creator."

[Col 1:16 NKJV] 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Paul does also assert that his battle is against thrones, dominions, principalities and powers. The theme of a rebellion is somewhat congruent with NT thought, and at least fits within the Hebrew texts.

We don't know why biological life is as it is. We could imagine that life should consist of nothing but herbivores, like the SDA's, but it's fairly hard to imagine how a tiger or a shark were designed to eat plant food. It seems to me that it is more so societies that have the spiritual problem. This is how the Jews interpret the situation, classing Gentiles who follow noahide laws as righteous and worthy of salvation.

As for why we find ourselves in a fallen world and not eden, I'm inclined to believe it's because of the absence of God.

 

[timothyu]

Death, specifically the Death of Christ was always a part of the plan.

Then why punish us for what was part of the plan?

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I just thought of something else. If this world is the perfect fit for us, then why do we experience suffering in it (as well as joy)?

This world is made in a state of constant reproduction, life and death, life and death, cyclic, where everything is food for something else. It thrives on death. We weren't originally from this world but were cast out of the Garden and into it. Had we not been, what was the original purpose of this world we are now part of?

Is there any truth in the old Hebrew concept that this world was the creation of a rebellious angel who still rules it, and once we also rebelled, it became the perfect fit for all of us?

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Then why punish us for what was part of the plan?

Why do you think that God is punishing us?

 

[timothyu]

Why do you think that God is punishing us?

Because we got kicked out of our original home and put in a place that better fit our rebellious nature. If the original intention was for us to not be here, why create it in the first place? If God knew we would rebel as the angels had done then why condemn us to death as punishment for what was expected of us?

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

I don't consider that to be a Hebrew concept -- that a rebellious angel is somehow "creator."

[Col 1:16 NKJV] 16 For by Him all things were created that are in heaven and that are on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or principalities or powers. All things were created through Him and for Him.

Paul does also assert that his battle is against thrones, dominions, principalities and powers. The theme of a rebellion is somewhat congruent with NT thought, and at least fits within the Hebrew texts.

We don't know why biological life is as it is. We could imagine that life should consist of nothing but herbivores, like the SDA's, but it's fairly hard to imagine how a tiger or a shark were designed to eat plant food. It seems to me that it is more so societies that have the spiritual problem. This is how the Jews interpret the situation, classing Gentiles who follow noahide laws as righteous and worthy of salvation.

As for why we find ourselves in a fallen world and not eden, I'm inclined to believe it's because of the absence of God.

I've always wondered about the herbivores myself. We know from Scripture that death reigned beginning with Adam. But plant death is still death. So there is a mystery here. Maybe death was experientially different? A falling asleep opposed to the violent death we (as a collective) experience.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Your answer is in your statement. God is merciful to give us a place away from him that better suits our needs until we, in Christ, are able to make our way back.

Because we got kicked out of our original home and put in a place that better fit our rebellious nature. If the original intention was for us to not be here, why create it in the first place? If God knew we would rebel as the angels had done then why condemn us to death as punishment for what was expected of us?

 

[TheWhat?]

Because we got kicked out of our original home and put in a place that better fit our rebellious nature. If the original intention was for us to not be here, why create it in the first place? If God knew we would rebel as the angels had done then why condemn us to death as punishment for what was expected of us?

There are things apparently even angels desire to look into but don't know. We don't have all of the answers. I think we are permitted to hope that, at the end of it all, it will make sense and seem worthwhile.

 

[timothyu]

We know from Scripture that death reigned beginning with Adam.

Death for man so of course the only place to send them was a world that already was full of death and rebirth, in a state of constant reproduction. But if we were not intended to come here but remain in the garden why even create a world like that that runs contrary to Heaven?

 

[TheWhat?]

I've always wondered about the herbivores myself. We know from Scripture that death reigned beginning with Adam. But plant death is still death. So there is a mystery here. Maybe death was experientially different? A falling asleep opposed to the violent death we (as a collective) experience.

Well, to man was given dominion over the animals in the garden. I think it can include death, possibly. But mankind in union with God, the Father, would be unlike anything that is commonly known.

 

[timothyu]

. I think we are permitted to hope that, at the end of it all, it will make sense and seem worthwhile.

Probably yet religions seem to think they have all the answers, when in truth man is pure ignorance. It's why we keep making God over in our own image instead of the other way around.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

@timothyu We were not intended to stay in paradise. Christ is not plan 'b'.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

Agreed!

Well, to man was given dominion over the animals in the garden. I think it can include death, possibly. But mankind in union with God, the Father, would be unlike anything that is commonly known.

 

[Thatgirloncfforums]

That's why Christ, not a proposition came down from heaven.

Probably yet religions seem to think they have all the answers, when in truth man is pure ignorance. It's why we keep making God over in our own image instead of the other way around.

Luke 16:15 And he said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but God knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men is abomination in the sight of God.

Romans 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

James 4:4 Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.