Disobedience has consequences.

[KCfromNC]

Subjective. Opinion, conjecture.

Yes, exactly. It is an easily demonstrated fact that people can form opinions about fictional characters, and the fact that those opinions are formed is in no way a claim that the characters are actually real.

 

[Cute Tink]

How do you explain then that some people become that way?

I would guess they have some difference about them from me. While I imagine that someone could be raised with particularly bad motivations and may turn out to be a violent, remorseless individual, there still could be other elements at play because even in awful families there are glowing examples of humanity.

 

[bhsmte]

What stops you from doing it? Lack of desire or too much moral belief? I have wondered actually whether we should talk about suicide bombing instead, to be less offensive. I think both desire and morality are developed over time, and I do not see what makes one person do different things from another, besides the life they have had having caused them to be comfortable about what they do. I might be wrong about that, but let's see what you reckon.

With every human being, we have to be able to reconcile our actions with ourselves. At the end of the day, we have to live with our actions.

Some are able to reconcile immoral acts and go through with them, others can not, because the pain of knowing what they had done, is to overwhelming for them to face.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

At this time, I do believe so, yes.

Ok, so since you're a Christian, I'm guessing that you believe your god - described as omniscient, omnipotent and omnibenevolent - created the universe. A universe in which free-willed people like I, and countless other people from all walks of life, never choose to molest children, thereby causing them suffering.

Since it's presumably possible for such a god to create everyone with the same trait as I - the inability to molest children - you can only conclude that this god most desires the suffering of children that are molested.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

No, just the true ones.

And how do you determine one that's true?

 

[oi_antz]

I would guess they have some difference about them from me. While I imagine that someone could be raised with particularly bad motivations and may turn out to be a violent, remorseless individual, there still could be other elements at play because even in awful families there are glowing examples of humanity.

A family doesn't cut the mustard for what I am talking about. It has to be literal duplication of moment-by-moment experiences to make this point. Plus, whatever our guardian angel tells us. So there really is no way to test our idea, because it is impossible to completely replicate a person's life. What that means, is the question is, if we took you and made it so you were born into exactly the same body as that molester you are imagining, you then lived the same life they did, would you have made a different decision than what that person did, at any moment?

 

[LostMarbels]

So what was the thought process behind you accepting a resurrection? And did Dionysus resurrect as well?

To answer this I believe we first must find out who God is. For me God is omnipotent, omniscient, and solely sovereign. I also confess the word of God, that dwelt with God, and was God, came in the flesh and dwelt amongst man. 1Jn 4:2-3. So that being said Jesus Christ is God. And with God being the all powerful creator of all existence; I don't put anything beyond his capabilities. Also by having a relationship with Jesus I have come to understand that God delights in confusing the wise men of this world with "foolishness". For example, if you don't believe in an all powerful God... a virgin conceiving a child is out of the question, and is quite foolish in their opinion. However if you accept God as all powerful you understand that God, being the creator of the laws of "normalcy", can act outside of the norm He created. Then its just another of His amazing deeds. I believe my Bible because I know my God. He is both faithful, and powerful enough to have accomplished all that is contained within the bibles pages.I think the first problem many have is they are starting on the premises that they have the ability to judge God. Secondly, they are equating God's actions to human like, when in fact it is us humans that mimic God"s actions. Remember God is the creator, He dosn't act like us.

 

[Cute Tink]

A family doesn't cut the mustard for what I am talking about. It has to be literal duplication of moment-by-moment experiences to make this point. Plus, whatever our guardian angel tells us. So there really is no way to test our idea, because it is impossible to completely replicate a person's life. What that means, is the question is, if we took you and made it so you were born into exactly the same body as that molester you are imagining, you then lived the same life they did, would you have made a different decision than what that person did, at any moment?

I agree that this is impossible to test, because of the incredible number of variables.

What you are suggesting though, is that I'm not me, but this other person and this other person is already shown to have done so.

 

[LostMarbels]

And did Dionysus resurrect as well?

I do not know. I have no real knowledge of Greek Mythology, but I do know allot of metaphysical things such as talking to the dead, talking to spirits or demons, and even Resurrection can be counterfeited by the devil.

 

[LostMarbels]

Yes, exactly. It is an easily demonstrated fact that people can form opinions about fictional characters, and the fact that those opinions are formed is in no way a claim that the characters are actually real.

Yes, exactly. It is an easily demonstrated fact that people can form opinions about people in the bible, and the fact that those opinions are formed is in no way a claim that the characters are actually fictitious.

 

[LostMarbels]

With every human being, we have to be able to reconcile our actions with ourselves. At the end of the day, we have to live with our actions.

Some are able to reconcile immoral acts and go through with them, others can not, because the pain of knowing what they had done, is to overwhelming for them to face.

I have always heard that sexuality is not a choice, that humans are born with an innate desire to sexuality from birth. If this is true, why do you believe a pedophile is anymore responsible for their sexual orientation then any other sexuality? After all, they were born that way, and it is hurtful to imposes your morals on their sexuality they were born to be.

 

[Cute Tink]

I have always heard that sexuality is not a choice, that humans are born with an innate desire to sexuality from birth. If this is true, why do you believe a pedophile is anymore responsible for their sexual orientation then any other sexuality? After all, they were born that way, and it is hurtful to imposes your morals on their sexuality they were born to be.

Nobody is suggesting that a pedophile is "more responsible for their sexual orientation" than anyone else (assuming that it is a sexual orientation fixed at birth).

The problem is that acting on a pedophile orientation would mean harming children. Other sexual orientations don't involve (by necessity) a non-consenting partner.

 

[LostMarbels]

Nobody is suggesting that a pedophile is "more responsible for their sexual orientation" than anyone else (assuming that it is a sexual orientation fixed at birth).

The problem is that acting on a pedophile orientation would mean harming children. Other sexual orientations don't involve (by necessity) a non-consenting partner.

Please understand this conversation is for the sake of the debate. I do not condone pedophilia any any way.

There are rapists and molesters in all sexual orientations. I would say it is safe to say that any such sex offender is deserving of the fate they made for themselves.There are some nations, and even religions that do not hold being "prepubescent" as being a child. Once the child (yes I say child) has reached the age of having their period they can be married. What I am trying to state, is there is a point in this world where we have the right to deem something inappropriate even if others do not agree to our position.

 

[Cute Tink]

Please understand this conversation is for the sake of the debate. I do not condone pedophilia any any way.

Granted.

There are rapists and molesters in all sexual orientations. I would say it is safe to say that any such sex offender is deserving of the fate they made for themselves.

Pretty much, yes.

There are some nations, and even religions that do not hold being "prepubescent" as being a child. Once the child (yes I say child) has reached the age of having their period they can be married. What I am trying to state, is their is a point in this world where we have the right to deem something inappropriate even if others do not agree to our position.

You have a right to find it inappropriate. We all have rights to our opinions.

The issue comes with your ability to enforce that opinion on the population. It is my position that if you can demonstrate that there is actual harm happening to another party then you get the right to , maybe in certain specific incidents there might need to be a while things are figured out, but mostly if all you have is a personal belief with no demonstrable harm, then you should just let other people

 

[LostMarbels]

Granted.



Pretty much, yes.



You have a right to find it inappropriate. We all have rights to our opinions.

The issue comes with your ability to enforce that opinion on the population. It is my position that if you can demonstrate that there is actual harm happening to another party then you get the right to , maybe in certain specific incidents there might need to be a while things are figured out, but mostly if all you have is a personal belief with no demonstrable harm, then you should just let other people

This is not an attempt to make parallels.

I think you have quite aptly defined morals. And answered your question. I was an addictions counselor, and I had found the most SO's (sex offenders) do not have a clear definition of boundaries, or set morals concerning the topic. Most SO's know what they are engaging in is wrong, feel shame and even remorse, but they like it so they will sneak. I believe 100% it is free will on both ends.

 

[Cute Tink]

I believe 100% it is free will on both ends.

I'm not sure what you mean on this point.

 

[LostMarbels]

I'm not sure what you mean on this point.

It is a persons choice to disagree with or hold to this sexuality.

 

[Cute Tink]

It is a persons choice to disagree with or hold to this sexuality.

Any sexuality?

Edit: Hope this is a fast enough edit... By my clarifying question, I mean on the level of attraction, not specifically the action of having sex.

 

[Davian]

This is not an attempt to make parallels.

I think you have quite aptly defined morals. And answered your question. I was an addictions counselor, and I had found the most SO's (sex offenders) do not have a clear definition of boundaries, or set morals concerning the topic. Most SO's know what they are engaging in is wrong, feel shame and even remorse, but they like it so they will sneak. I believe 100% it is free will on both ends.

How do you reconcile addictions with free will?

 

[LostMarbels]

How do you explain then that some people become that way?

It would say this part sociology and biology

Any sexuality?

Yes. Unless one is hermaphroditic or trans-gendered in such a way as the choice has been made for them at birth.
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