Disobedience has consequences.

[LostMarbels]

To the bold. Why ? Why do you try diligently to not hold to your own belief system unless it can be confirmed by God ?

I want to know truth. I'm the kind of person that is not satisfied that "water is wet". Why is water wet? What is water? How is water made, and so on. I want to know and understand all I can. When someone is close minded to reality to such a point that they cannot even learn truths that might be controversial to their own beliefs they become ignorant in their own conceit. Yes... I know this may come as a shock to hear those words from me, but I'am vastly misunderstood. I challenge myself, my God, and my beliefs constantly, because it counts for nothing to profess something in error. Part of being a follower of Christ, I find that Jesus is the creator of all; so it stands to reason to go to the author, to understand his creation.

Im not some mean boogie man. I have been forced in a corner and forced to explain myself. So I am.

 

[TillICollapse]

I want to know truth.

Right, and others have an interest in truth also.

I'm the kind of person that is not satisfied that "water is wet". Why is water wet? What is water? How is water made, and so on. I want to know and understand all I can.

As do others. And if someone is peeing on their leg and telling them, "This is just wet water," that may not be good enough for some people.

When someone is close minded to reality to such a point that they cannot even learn truths that might be controversial to their own beliefs they become ignorant in their own conceit. Yes... I know this may come as a shock to hear those words from me, but I'am vastly misunderstood. I challenge myself, my God, and my beliefs constantly, because it counts for nothing to profess something in error.

It counts for nothing to profess something in error ... okay one second ...

Part of being a follower of Christ, I find that Jesus is the creator of all; so it stands to reason to go to the author, to understand his creation.

Okay so you want to know truth, it counts for nothing to profess something in error, you diligently try to make sure you don't hold to your own belief system unless God confirms it, you consistently point to the idea that God must validate His own words ... yet you also are content to make lots of assertions concerning God, Jesus, etc with others and when asked you claim no responsibility for your own assertions, when asked a difficult question about a cure for cancer, you are content to respond with a guess on God's behalf "I'm pretty sure we don't have those because ________ "... so on the one hand you are content to make a lot of assertions concerning God with others, and even guess on His behalf apparently, yet you also say you are not making claims and it's important to you to diligently make sure you do not hold to your own beliefs, etc.

I'm not trying to corner you or nail you to a wall. But do you see any of what is being pointed out to you ?

One more example:

Suppose you really do know God. Suppose you really do ask God things and God responds. Suppose you are correct that the KJV is the right one, other's who call themselves Christians are wrong, others who claim to know God are wrong, whatever ... suppose you really do know God on some level. Someone who sees all your talking, comes and says, "I need help with my uncle, dying of cancer. I've prayed and asked, and gotten no response from God. But I've seen all you say, and I believe you. Please heal my uncle of cancer." And you respond with, "I can't, that's not my job. That's God's job. Ask Him again." and so they do, and still get no response. So they ask you to ask God for them, and you respond with, "I don't know," or "I wasn't told anything."

How is any of that okay with you ? How are you content with any of that ? If you want to challenge your beliefs, your God, and yourself ... how can you be content with "just words" ? Even in the Bible you said you reference, I believe it says:

For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

Im not some mean boogie man. I have been forced in a corner and forced to explain myself. So I am.

If you feel this way, perhaps you should step back a bit. Overdramatization.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

You challenge your beliefs? But you will never considerthe words of others who challenge them. Are our challenges invalid?

 

[LostMarbels]

You challenge your beliefs? But you will never considerthe words of others who challenge them. Are our challenges invalid?

Not at all. I read all of "The Atheist Asks #9" I really enjoyed it and respect your views but I dare not speak unless my I am immediately be put on the defensive and get nowhere.

This entire time I have been forced to respond the way I have. I came here to discuss philosophy, not come to Christianity's rescue like a shining knight. But I'm going to fight back if confronted.

 

[LostMarbels]

Right, and others have an interest in truth also. As do others. And if someone is peeing on their leg and telling them, "This is just wet water," that may not be good enough for some people. It counts for nothing to profess something in error ... okay one second ...Okay so you want to know truth, it counts for nothing to profess something in error, you diligently try to make sure you don't hold to your own belief system unless God confirms it, you consistently point to the idea that God must validate His own words ... yet you also are content to make lots of assertions concerning God, Jesus, etc with others and when asked you claim no responsibility for your own assertions, when asked a difficult question about a cure for cancer, you are content to respond with a guess on God's behalf "I'm pretty sure we don't have those because ________ "... so on the one hand you are content to make a lot of assertions concerning God with others, and even guess on His behalf apparently, yet you also say you are not making claims and it's important to you to diligently make sure you do not hold to your own beliefs, etc.

I'm not trying to corner you or nail you to a wall. But do you see any of what is being pointed out to you ?

One more example:

Suppose you really do know God. Suppose you really do ask God things and God responds. Suppose you are correct that the KJV is the right one, other's who call themselves Christians are wrong, others who claim to know God are wrong, whatever ... suppose you really do know God on some level. Someone who sees all your talking, comes and says, "I need help with my uncle, dying of cancer. I've prayed and asked, and gotten no response from God. But I've seen all you say, and I believe you. Please heal my uncle of cancer." And you respond with, "I can't, that's not my job. That's God's job. Ask Him again." and so they do, and still get no response. So they ask you to ask God for them, and you respond with, "I don't know," or "I wasn't told anything."

How is any of that okay with you ? How are you content with any of that ? If you want to challenge your beliefs, your God, and yourself ... how can you be content with "just words" ? Even in the Bible you said you reference, I believe it says:

For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

If you feel this way, perhaps you should step back a bit. Overdramatization.

How am I supposed to discuss deep subjects about a God you do not even recognize as real? How can I talk about resurrection, healing, or any other of the miracles of God with a crowd that thinks I'm an idiot? I have some here who have done nothing but mock me and berate everything for hours, and you want me to attempt a deep intelectual conversation?

 

[TillICollapse]

How am I supposed to discuss deep subjects about a God you do not even recognize as real? How can I talk about resurrection, healing, or any other of the miracles of God with a crowd that thinks I'm an idiot? I have some here who have done nothing but mock me and berate everything for hours, and you want me to attempt a deep intelectual conversation?

Have you witnessed resurrections, healings, etc ? And sorry for the response times being all over the map, I'm multi-tasking.

 

[LostMarbels]

Have you witnessed resurrections, healings, etc ? And sorry for the response times being all over the map, I'm multi-tasking.

Never a resurrection, but I have witnessed many other acts of God. You may not believe in my God but trust me when I say I do and I take this seriously: May God bear whiteness to my testimony I pray in Christ Jesus name. May he witness to the validity of my claims in the holy spirit.

I have seen many, many things. From the demonically possessed, to the mundane.

 

[Davian]

You haven't seen me do that yet.

What's the name of that big river in Egypt?

But, you have dodged a lot.

As I have said, I am only here to observe.

 

[Davian]

I'm pretty sure we don't have those because of humans wanting to cull the heard.

I thought that you would come back with nothing. That does count as evidence that you are only imagining these experiences.

 

[Davian]

Why? He is already readily available.

Just not in way that you can demonstrate.

 

[LostMarbels]

Just not in way that you can demonstrate.

I cannot provide what you keep going on about. Only God can. Do you think if you keep repeating yourself I will somehow just give in?

 

[ToddNotTodd]

I have seen many, many things. From the demonically possessed, to the mundane.

Now you're talking. What evidence did you have that someone was demonically possessed?

 

[LostMarbels]

Now you're talking. What evidence did you have that someone was demonically possessed?

You weren't there. How am I able to prove that anymore than there being a cup of coffee on my desk? Not a put off.... How do I answer that?

 

[Skavau]

Do you think that every opinion expressed does not cause harm? Do you think there is ever a good reason to suppress an opinion being expressed? (eg: Westboro picketing returned casualties of war).

Incitement to violence.

Right. Why do you believe this is not consistent with God's plan?

What, a perfect government? Do you mean to ask why do I think God's plan opposes free speech and freedom of thought?

Can you name one? I know only of elected oligarchy.

That would be the same thing as a representative democracy.

I believe that is His plan, but achieved by natural selection rather than force. If I believed hell was an everlasting condition, I might be responding differently to you. But the scriptures do indicate annihilation - gather the wheat and burn the chaff. I don't know how long you think chaff takes to burn, but I don't imagine it lasts forever. I do imagine that some varieties might burn longer, due to the density of stored energy in it. But I have never actually burned chaff.

Then again, you are not my target audience.

I have little problem with Christian Universalists, less with Annihilationists. I find the doctrine of universal torment whether expressed in Islam or Christianity to be abhorrent.

 

[Skavau]

If you do not accept Jesus your going to hell. Yes, I'm OK with God's will. What do you think I'm scared of admitting?

Read my signature. I believe in a literal hell. I accept it or what have you.

I think you're 'scared' to admit that you don't actually believe in freedom of conscience or speech. That you are in favour of God torturing people for what they say and think.

 

[ToddNotTodd]

You weren't there. How am I able to prove that anymore than there being a cup of coffee on my desk? Not a put off.... How do I answer that?

As you've repeatedly been told, I'm not looking for proof. Describing the evidence that you used to determine that someone was actually possessed is a good start. It's not exactly rocket science.

 

[LostMarbels]

As you've repeatedly been told, I'm not looking for proof. Describing the evidence that you used to determine that someone was actually possessed is a good start. It's not exactly rocket science.

I so used to being yelled at like some kind of idiot forgive me for flinching.......

Give me a moment please, I will answer.

 

[LostMarbels]

I think you're 'scared' to admit that you don't actually believe in freedom of conscience or speech. That you are in favour of God torturing people for what they say and think.

I'm not scared to admit anything. Do you see the "and will walk unfettered to the gallows confessing Jesus Christ as the word of God made flesh." in my signature? Why do you think it is there? What is the big symbol below this post, and why am I displaying it? I know full well that I may slowly have my head carved from my body with a knife for my confession of Jesus, and you think I'm scared to confess hell?

Point in fact: Jesus Christ is the one and only true God. I denounce all else.

 

[TillICollapse]

Never a resurrection, but I have witnessed many other acts of God. You may not believe in my God but trust me when I say I do and I take this seriously: May God bear whiteness to my testimony I pray in Christ Jesus name. May he witness to the validity of my claims in the holy spirit.

I have seen many, many things. From the demonically possessed, to the mundane.

I thought you said you hadn't made any claims.

And this is the second time you've mentioned something about what I don't or may not believe. How do you know what I believe or disbelieve ?

 

[Skavau]

I'm not scared to admit anything. Do you see the "and will walk unfettered to the gallows confessing Jesus Christ as the word of God made flesh." in my signature? Why do you think it is there? What is the big symbol below this post, and why am I displaying it? I know full well that I may slowly have my head carved from my body with a knife for my confession of Jesus, and you think I'm scared to confess hell?

Point in fact: Jesus Christ is the one and only true God. I denounce all else.

So why won't you just come out and say that in the end, you do not support freedom of speech and freedom of belief?