Disobedience has consequences.

[GrimKingGrim]

Actually, it does if one of them (or indeed both) is a Christian. There is no such thing in all eternity as a dead Christian. There are Christians here on earth, and there are Christians in eternity. No dead ones.

Hmph, wonderful; poetic. But that doesn't change death.

 

[Blue Wren]

God is not a big fluffy teddy bear that is all sugar coated rainbows and hugs. There are some Christians that might preach this, but then they're changing the Bible to fit them instead of changing themselves to fit the Bible. God is just like an earthly parent who wants His children to obey. Just like a parent has a need for discipline when it comes to a child's obedience, the same applies to the big picture. We are children of God regardless of your belief, and you are not exempt from making mistakes regardless of how 'good' you think you are. If you screw up as a kid, do you not ask your parents for forgiveness? When they forgive you, do you then not except it? What causes you such heart hardheartedness that you are unwilling to treat your Heavenly Father the same?

God's wrath is real, and it will pour out on those who refuse to accept his forgiveness. God is a jealous God, and He does not want us worshiping anything over Him. If you do not believe in Him, than you believe in something else. A false idol. The new false idols of this world are money, property, self, food, celebrities, etc. When we love something worldly more than God we are living in sin. We must love God, each other, and put our faith in Him. He has chosen us, and we should be thankful. Follow the rules of the loving parent who created us, and remain obedient to the Word of God. "For this is the will of God, that by doing good you should put to silence the ignorance of foolish people. Live as people who are free, not using your freedom as a cover-up for evil, but living as servants of God." (1 Peter 2:15-16)

What Christian preaches that God is a big fluffy teddy bear, and life is about sugar coated rainbows & hugs?

 

[Colter]

What Christian preaches that God is a big fluffy teddy bear, and life is about sugar coated rainbows & hugs?

The Fluffybarians

 

[Cearbhall]

God is just like an earthly parent who wants His children to obey.

[...]

God's wrath is real, and it will pour out on those who refuse to accept his forgiveness.

Oops, I must have missed the part of parenting class about pouring out your wrath on your children.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Oops, I must have missed the part of parenting class about pouring out your wrath on your children.

That would be Bronze Age Parenting 105, it's a 4 credit hour course man, don't skip.

 

[oi_antz]

It's written on our hearts. The Holy Spirit works on us internally. The only good in us is Him.

You said his:

"The good news remains in all who call themselves Christians."

.. yet Jesus has said this:

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

.. then I am not sure that just calling onesself Christian does necessarily qualify a person to have had the good news written on their hearts. Maybe they call themselves Christian because it is a fashionable thing to do. Do you know of a scripture that will support your idea? Or maybe your words are a bit inaccurate for what you mean, and you could rephrase it.

*Paul taught his compromised remixed gospel to the Pagan world who already had concepts of the sacrifice of a human/divine being for sin.

I am curious, can you please produce the statement St Paul made that you are referring to?

He didn't create it that way. They ate herbs. It was a result of the fall and inviting the devil in. In the new world the lamb will lay with the wolve again.

Is there scriptural evidence for this idea? Can you please provide the location for it? Thanks!

Looks like everything went according to God's plan. What you perceive as the works of man I see a God's sovereignty. There is not one thing that happens that He hadn't already preordained.

.. In saying this, do you think that in "preordaining" Jesus Christ's brutal execution, He desired it? If so, why, and if not, then who do you say desired it, and why?

They sinned within no time and they changed at once. Why is that so hard to believe? Lol even most Christians don't believe that but I do.

What does this mean "within no time" - does it mean they sinned before time began.. that time began after they sinned, or does it mean that not much time passed from the beginning of their life to the time when they sinned? How long is that extremely short amount of time? Are you suggesting seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, years? Is there scriptural support for this idea, and can you please show us that. Thanks again!

Someone he was not, apparently.

To some this is true, for example those He was addressing at the time. But to others He appears to be who He claimed to be. So what is the difference? Does He appear differently from different angles? Or do we bias our view of Him to see Him in a preconceived way?

I've found the tendency of people to anthropomorphize things to be quite fascinating.

I have too. I have also found the tendency for the opposite to be interesting: eg, that some people insist on "scientific proof" that animals feel pain.

Yeah, he didn't. Best offer is 'inspired', and opinions vary as to what that might mean, from vaguely giving someone the idea to write something, to dictating word for word. But the Bible does not use the word 'dictated', and therefore we are not obliged to believe it.

My own view is that any Christian bookshop you care to visit will give ample evidence that 'inspired by God' can result in work of mind-numbing mediocrity. Some diamonds; mostly dross. Why should Scripture be any different?

A songwriter is inspired by their muse too, FYI. You stopped short of that extreme.

"Common sense" would have us believing in a flat, immovable Earth and that the cosmos rotates around us.

Sure. So common sense isn't necessarily true, it is just a normal way to make sense. But the awareness of the existence of God is still common sense. Can you please explain your opposing view? Thanks!

 

[Catherineanne]

The Fluffybarians

I would definitely go to their church.

 

[Messy]

Is there scriptural evidence for this idea? Can you please provide the location for it? Thanks!

Genesis 1
And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.

Romans 5
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

Romans 8
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

 

[Messy]

What does this mean "within no time" - does it mean they sinned before time began.. that time began after they sinned, or does it mean that not much time passed from the beginning of their life to the time when they sinned? How long is that extremely short amount of time? Are you suggesting seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, years? Is there scriptural support for this idea, and can you please show us that. Thanks again!

That it didn't take very long.
Only after the fall Eve became pregnant so I don't think it took 100 years.

And Adam lived one hundred and thirty years, and begot a son in his own likeness, after his image, and named him Seth.

 

[Davian]

To some this is true, for example those He was addressing at the time. But to others He appears to be who He claimed to be. So what is the difference? Does He appear differently from different angles? Or do we bias our view of Him to see Him in a preconceived way?

It would seem we all have biases and preconceptions. Some of us dismantle and discard those biases and preconceptions that do not comport with objective, independently verifiable observations of reality.

All of the god concepts presented to date have failed to do so.

Sure. So common sense isn't necessarily true, it is just a normal way to make sense. But the awareness of the existence of God is still common sense.

And not necessarily true, agreed?

"All the hundreds of millions of people who, in their time, believed the Earth was flat never succeeded in unrounding it by an inch.”" - Isaac Asimov

Can you please explain your opposing view? Thanks!

My view is not opposing, it is sceptical. I maintain a position of disbelief until given sufficient information to convince me otherwise.

 

[hiphopopotomus]

http://www.angelfire.com/mi/dinosaurs/carnivores.html
Simosuchus the vegetarian crocodile
Other evidence that carnivorous reptiles once had teeth for eating vegetation comes from the fossil remains of Simosuchus.

for more information read:
A Broccoli-Eating Croc?(fossil discovery) Discover: Sept, 2000

There is evidence that Piranha were once vegetarian as well. (Piranha by David Catchpoole, Ph.D. Creation Ex Nihilo 22(4):20–23,September–November 2000)

That is commonly known as evolution.

 

[Messy]

What Christian preaches that God is a big fluffy teddy bear, and life is about sugar coated rainbows & hugs?

https://m.flickr.com/#/photos/mattglastonbury/8370008088/

 

[Davian]

...
However, my point stands: Those who would reject God

"Reject" implies intent. Disbelief is not a conscious choice.

will have to deal with the consequences.

For what would I be held accountable?

 

[hiphopopotomus]

Genesis 1
And God said, “See, I have given you every herb that yields seed which is on the face of all the earth, and every tree whose fruit yields seed; to you it shall be for food. 30 Also, to every beast of the earth, to every bird of the air, and to everything that creeps on the earth, in which there is life, I have given every green herb for food”; and it was so.

Romans 5
Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned

Romans 8
For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; 21 because the creation itself also will be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

God specifically imposed suffering on humans and snakes for they were guilty of sin.
Nowhere does God mention that all other animals should suffer or change however.
So he must have created an an animal system in which suffering and terror was normal.
Hence the diagnosis of a sadistic psychopath.The sort of being that first creates flies and an ants and then delights in tearing the wings off a fly and dropping it into an ants nest.Or having a zebra get stuck in the mud of a riverbank so that crocodiles can slowly eat it alive by tearing off junks of flesh.
This is a God to be feared.

 

[Colter]

You said his:

"The good news remains in all who call themselves Christians."

.. yet Jesus has said this:

Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and in your name perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

.. then I am not sure that just calling onesself Christian does necessarily qualify a person to have had the good news written on their hearts. Maybe they call themselves Christian because it is a fashionable thing to do. Do you know of a scripture that will support your idea? Or maybe your words are a bit inaccurate for what you mean, and you could rephrase it.


I am curious, can you please produce the statement St Paul made that you are referring to?


Is there scriptural evidence for this idea? Can you please provide the location for it? Thanks!


.. In saying this, do you think that in "preordaining" Jesus Christ's brutal execution, He desired it? If so, why, and if not, then who do you say desired it, and why?

What does this mean "within no time" - does it mean they sinned before time began.. that time began after they sinned, or does it mean that not much time passed from the beginning of their life to the time when they sinned? How long is that extremely short amount of time? Are you suggesting seconds, minutes, hours, days, weeks, years? Is there scriptural support for this idea, and can you please show us that. Thanks again!

To some this is true, for example those He was addressing at the time. But to others He appears to be who He claimed to be. So what is the difference? Does He appear differently from different angles? Or do we bias our view of Him to see Him in a preconceived way?

I have too. I have also found the tendency for the opposite to be interesting: eg, that some people insist on "scientific proof" that animals feel pain.

A songwriter is inspired by their muse too, FYI. You stopped short of that extreme.

Sure. So common sense isn't necessarily true, it is just a normal way to make sense. But the awareness of the existence of God is still common sense. Can you please explain your opposing view? Thanks!

Jesus taught salvation by faith not sacrifice. The hope of Jesus was that the Jews would take up their calling, believe in his gospel and carry that gospel to the world. We know what happened.

Paul taught "Christ and him crucified" in the form of the Old Testiment scapegoat. Blood sacrifice for sins was common among many evolutionary religions, having never been personally taught by Christ it's understandable that Paul would bring his own opinions to the newly forming religion about Jesus, not nessisarily of Jesus.

 

[Messy]

God specifically imposed suffering on humans and snakes for they were guilty of sin.
Nowhere does God mention that all other animals should suffer or change however.
So he must have created an an animal system in which suffering and terror was normal.
Hence the diagnosis of a sadistic psychopath.The sort of being that first creates flies and an ants and then delights in tearing the wings off a fly and dropping it into an ants nest.Or having a zebra get stuck in the mud of a riverbank so that crocodiles can slowly eat it alive by tearing off junks of flesh.
This is a God to be feared.

The earth was cursed and death came in because of Adam and the creation became subject to death. Distles and thorns came because of that so I suppose meat eating animals too, since it says they first ate herbs and there was no death. The devil is a narcissist etc, he became proud because he was so beautiful.
The thief comes to steal, kill and destroy. I have come so that they may have life. The god of this world is a moral monster. That's the devil.

 

[LostMarbels]

"Reject" implies intent. Disbelief is not a conscious choice.

For what would I be held accountable?

Disbelief:
NOUN

1. 
   inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real:

1. 
   

There is a point where one can become willfully ignorant. They simple do not want to believe and brush it aside without ever even looking into a matter. The bible calls this person a Scoffer.

Scoffer: someone who jeers or mocks or treats something with contempt or calls out in derision.

Scoff: To show or express derision or scorn

Full Definition of DERISION
1
a : the use of ridicule or scorn to show contempt

b : a state of being laughed at or ridiculed : a state of being derided
2
: an object of ridicule or scorn

2Pe_3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

"walking after their own lusts" = Making their own way.

When it comes to the point where an individual only talks to Christians in-order to tell them how stupid their belief is, and show them their wrong, and or go out of their way to ridicule, mock and otherwise denounce their God, then that individual is only trying to sow discord. There is no longer any attempt of said individual to understand the Christian God. At this point their disbelief becomes refusal to accept something, and it is at that point it is a conscience decision. It is at this point that God will judge this person.

 

[Colter]

Adam and Eve came to our world from on high, this material Son and daughter were on a mission of redemption for our previously fallen, evolved earth. They defaulted, outflanked by the deceptions of the crafty beast, they lost their immortality status and were marooned here until death.

 

[dlamberth]

So the obedient kids don't deserve their reward and the disobedient kids still get a gold star?

Your example is about ego activity. Where it fails for me is that it has no connection to the soul. And it's our soul that is saved.

.

 

[GrimKingGrim]

Disbelief:
NOUN

1. 
   inability or refusal to accept that something is true or real:

There is a point where one can become willfully ignorant. They simple do not want to believe and brush it aside without ever even looking into a matter. The bible calls this person a Scoffer.

Scoffer: someone who jeers or mocks or treats something with contempt or calls out in derision.

Scoff: To show or express derision or scorn

Full Definition of DERISION
1
a : the use of ridicule or scorn to show contempt

b : a state of being laughed at or ridiculed : a state of being derided
2
: an object of ridicule or scorn

2Pe_3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

"walking after their own lusts" = Making their own way.

When it comes to the point where an individual only talks to Christians in-order to tell them how stupid their belief is, and show them their wrong, and or go out of their way to ridicule, mock and otherwise denounce their God, then that individual is only trying to sow discord. There is no longer any attempt of said individual to understand the Christian God. At this point their disbelief becomes refusal to accept something, and it is at that point it is a conscience decision. It is at this point that God will judge this person.

You forgot the second definition.

"lack of faith in something"

Just wanted to make sure we weren't deliberately missing something.