Disillusioned with church?

[Alex-C-L]

Does anybody else agree that Church often exists inorder to perpetuate itself as it demands its members immerse themselves in the corporate spirit through the constant giving of time to activities and conferences, possibly to the point that it hinders personal spiritual growth? Im talking about modernish mainstream organisations like Hillsong outlets that encourage dedication to the corporate spirit.

The reason Im posting this is that Ive recently given up on the modern church as I believe it lacks spirituality. Many people who I have met over the years have no concept of anything spiritual and no hunger for it, they spend their time going to church in order to be told how to live their lives, skip about to some guitar based music and partake in arranged social activities. Its no wonder so many spiritually hungry people turn to the new age. Even the bible says my people perish for lack of knowledge.

 

[lismore]

Yes Alex, you're right.

I am not a church member right now, but I attend several meetings per week, not all at the same venue. Different meetings on different nights, different groups, different purpose.

The Church is the community of believers in the city. When it gets inclusive and exclusive it's no longer community.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Disillusioned = lack of vision.
the people perish because of a lack of vision.

So many churches are so watered down with theistic mumbo jumbo that there is no longer any spirit in their teaching. It has all be theologicized out. The new birth, they say, is not REALLY a new birth. Nothing really happened... you were just adopted. It is all paper and no substance.
I call it mere theism. It is believing in God... but not really. Much of it throws out Jesus and the power. It is all "sovereignty" and "control"... but only in the form of excuses why you can expect nothing from Him... ever.
Flee from it like the plague. Find a little country church that teaches the gospel and get the richness and vitality of the word back into your life. So what if it is not "cool."
It is living, it is real, and it is exciting!

 

[JimB]

Does anybody else agree that Church often exists inorder to perpetuate itself as it demands its members immerse themselves in the corporate spirit through the constant giving of time to activities and conferences, possibly to the point that it hinders personal spiritual growth? Im talking about modernish mainstream organisations like Hillsong outlets that encourage dedication to the corporate spirit.

The reason Im posting this is that Ive recently given up on the modern church as I believe it lacks spirituality. Many people who I have met over the years have no concept of anything spiritual and no hunger for it, they spend their time going to church in order to be told how to live their lives, skip about to some guitar based music and partake in arranged social activities. Its no wonder so many spiritually hungry people turn to the new age. Even the bible says my people perish for lack of knowledge.

A close reading of the early church, in Acts and the Epistles, shows us that they were basically little different than the modern church is today. The church is, after all, the people of God ... warts and all. I am sure there are a lot of abuses in almost every church structure and none of us, either now or from Pentecost, are all that Christ expects. But I believe Christ loves the church, his bride, even in her imperfections and God works in us both to will and do his good pleasure.


Depending on your perspective, the glass is either half-empty or half-full.

~Jim

Mercy triumphs over judgment. ~James 2.13​

 

[Joy]

Does anybody else agree that Church often exists inorder to perpetuate itself as it demands its members immerse themselves in the corporate spirit through the constant giving of time to activities and conferences, possibly to the point that it hinders personal spiritual growth? Im talking about modernish mainstream organisations like Hillsong outlets that encourage dedication to the corporate spirit.

The reason Im posting this is that Ive recently given up on the modern church as I believe it lacks spirituality. Many people who I have met over the years have no concept of anything spiritual and no hunger for it, they spend their time going to church in order to be told how to live their lives, skip about to some guitar based music and partake in arranged social activities. Its no wonder so many spiritually hungry people turn to the new age. Even the bible says my people perish for lack of knowledge.

You mention spiritual hunger and turning to the New age. My response is
if this is the case and an invididual 's spiritual growth is solely dependent on the church that is wrong. The purpose of fellowship is to encourage the individual in their relationship with the Lord but no other person can be blamed for an individual not growing in the Lord.

 

[New_Wineskin]

Does anybody else agree that Church often exists inorder to perpetuate itself as it demands its members immerse themselves in the corporate spirit through the constant giving of time to activities and conferences, possibly to the point that it hinders personal spiritual growth?

That's what clubs are about .

 

[KleinerApfel]

Being dis-illusioned can be painful, but if you find yourself there be encouraged - when your illusions are dissed it means you're responding to truth.

It can be painful for a while though, we might stagger around a bit, unsure of what to hold on to and what to let go of.

Just remember Who is with you, leading you, holding you.

 

[Yitzchak]

The quote " It was the best of times , it was the worst of times " comes to mind when I think of the church.

I have met my best friends through church , seen Greatness , integrity and faith there. Experienced the love of God there. Exprienced God there.

On the other side, some of the cruelest hypocrisies are to be seen there as well. I have exeprienced the frustration of churches not living up to their high calling.

For myself , the good far outweighs the bad. I am sorry to hear that your exprience was the opposite. I am glad to hear you are not giving up on your faith in Christ.

 

[Pat Colby]

I don't like the Jesus rock music. Why can't we sing some of the quieter songs. Some of those old songs have majestic lyrics.

 

[JimfromOhio]

My 40 some years as a Christian, I have found problems in every Churches I been to.We can easily find ourselves drawn into a Church service with a wrong motive. A local church doesn't need manipulative programs and if someone try to motivate people to do things for selfish motives, what they do won't honor God. Churches today are very mixed and many of them are compromising God's moral standards.

Many church leaders preach, but often not with truth; they lead, but not from the platform of a life of godliness, holiness, and prayer. Its underlying presuppositions are that the church can accomplish spiritual goals by fleshly means, and that the power of God’s Word alone is not sufficient to break through a sinner’s blindness and hardness of heart. More often than not worship has become most closely associated with that which will satisfies the worshipers, rather than that which is most pleasing to God. The life of a local church is made up of spiritual attitudes and spiritual motivations, spiritual graces that come from deep within the community. Serving the Lord is hard work and requires diligence. Christian's accountability involves "one another" that every Christians are encouraged to be actively serving and ministering their gifts. God uses Christians' circumstances to bring people to Christ. This is the concept of Romans 8:28-29 "And we know that God causes everything to work together for the good of those who love God and are called according to his purpose for them."

As we observe how a church functions, look for an emphasis on worshiping God. See if the leadership stresses the importance of honoring and glorifying God in all things (1 Cor. 10:31; Col.3:17). We also are to observe the involvement of the individual members. Do they exercise their spiritual gifts among the Body of Christ (Rom. 12:3-8; Eph. 4:11-13; 1 Pet. 4:10-11)? A local Church's spiritual capacity is their charisma which is a gift of God's grace. They are free in God's grace and empowered by the Holy Spirit to do right, to look at these others in a condescending way. Often GRACE is abused when instead of seeing that as an opportunity for ministry, it becomes an opportunity for spiritual pride and an occasion of self-conceit where they congratulate themselves for their spirituality and spiritual gifts.

 

[Lemmiwinks]

Does anybody else agree that Church often exists inorder to perpetuate itself as it demands its members immerse themselves in the corporate spirit through the constant giving of time to activities and conferences, possibly to the point that it hinders personal spiritual growth?

Its very difficult for many people to say "no." One must learn to tell friends, family, pastors, etc. "No" or else they will not respect your personal boundaries.

 

[franky67]

I don't like the Jesus rock music. Why can't we sing some of the quieter songs. Some of those old songs have majestic lyrics.

I'm with you, Pat, it seems it's all about entertainment and Loudness.

I wish the pendulum would hurry up and swing back to a "kinder and gentler" type of worship music, but alas, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime.

This generation, knows nothing about music, last night on "Dancing with the Stars" they said the couples were dancing the Rumba, but the music didn't even come close to being a Rumba. It was rock.:o

As to the OP, take dids advise and keep searching, you will find the right gathering.

 

[Pat Colby]

I'm with you, Pat, it seems it's all about entertainment and Loudness.

I wish the pendulum would hurry up and swing back to a "kinder and gentler" type of worship music, but alas, I don't think it will happen in my lifetime.

This generation, knows nothing about music, last night on "Dancing with the Stars" they said the couples were dancing the Rumba, but the music didn't even come close to being a Rumba. It was rock.:o

As to the OP, take dids advise and keep searching, you will find the right gathering.

Yes franky.I don't leave home without my ear plugs.

 

[millerrod2]

i read ALOT of I and me, i wish, makes me feel, i like, i want healed, i want i want i want bla bla bla. BREAKING NEWS !! its not about I its not about ME, we are ALL SERVANTS OF GOD its not about YOU !! Its about Loving God, its about Loving all those around you, its about SERVING GOD by shinning the light of LOVE !! The question should not be where can I go that makes ME feel good or where its comfortable, it should be where can i SERVE GOD the best, where can i Love and help those in need. What church can i SERVE GOD the greatest in. In a world of I and ME remember it is no longer about YOU its about SERVING GOD by LOVING GOD and LOVING OTHERS !! YOU are no longer YOU YOU are a SERVANT OF THE MOST HIGH !! So take off YOUR BOOTS and put on GODS SERVANTS BOOTS !!

 

[Joy]

i read ALOT of I and me, i wish, makes me feel, i like, i want healed, i want i want i want bla bla bla. BREAKING NEWS !! its not about I its not about ME, we are ALL SERVANTS OF GOD its not about YOU !! Its about Loving God, its about Loving all those around you, its about SERVING GOD by shinning the light of LOVE !! The question should not be where can I go that makes ME feel good or where its comfortable, it should be where can i SERVE GOD the best, where can i Love and help those in need. What church can i SERVE GOD the greatest in. In a world of I and ME remember it is no longer about YOU its about SERVING GOD by LOVING GOD and LOVING OTHERS !! YOU are no longer YOU YOU are a SERVANT OF THE MOST HIGH !! So take off YOUR BOOTS and put on GODS SERVANTS BOOTS !!

Amen

Also In the world everyone expects their needs to be met immediately and as Christians sadly we have the same expectation.

 

[KingZzub]

Not all the church is like that.

We have a few people coming to our church escaping that corporate mentality from other churches. We meet once on a Sunday, and once again in the week in houses across the town and a couple of nearby towns (really suburbs with in London). We currently have three groups and they are growing in depth and size.

Last night someone was telling me about a church situation where the pastor's wife had chided the church for getting too close to the man of God (the pastor) as they might see his flaws if they get too close. That is wrong - church is built on godly relationships.

But like Dids says don't give up hope. Being disillusioned is often the first step to growth - as soon as you realize what you have is not enough, then that is the first step towards getting enough. The church is people and you are people, so you need to now be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

As always Dids advice is SPOT ON, apart from one minor flaw. Not all living churches are in the countryside, some are in cities. Some are in large cities. Some are in large international cities. Some are in London!

 

[Faulty]

Does anybody else agree that Church often exists inorder to perpetuate itself as it demands its members immerse themselves in the corporate spirit through the constant giving of time to activities and conferences, possibly to the point that it hinders personal spiritual growth? Im talking about modernish mainstream organisations like Hillsong outlets that encourage dedication to the corporate spirit.

The reason Im posting this is that Ive recently given up on the modern church as I believe it lacks spirituality. Many people who I have met over the years have no concept of anything spiritual and no hunger for it, they spend their time going to church in order to be told how to live their lives, skip about to some guitar based music and partake in arranged social activities. Its no wonder so many spiritually hungry people turn to the new age. Even the bible says my people perish for lack of knowledge.

What's interesting is that the church's really don't see themselves that way. When you read the seven letters to the churches in Revelations 2 and 3, one thing to notice is that every church had some perception of itself that Jesus pointed out was not so, five to the negative and two to the positive.

Of the two who were to the positive, Smyrna and Philadelphia, their perceptions were of poverty and weakness, and it was to those who thought they were powerful and rich that had the greater criticism brought upon themselves. I think that's something every church should keep in mind when evaluating themselves.

 

[MPaul]

Hello,

I'm in the house church movement. George Barna, of Barna Research Group, the main statistical organization for Christian matters, after doing a study on the house church noted that it is taking over the church, and then, he joined the movement. The house church addresses many of the issues brought up in this thread. My web site is about it.

Of course, any church can get caught in error and become abusive. But we believe that the church that comes closest to the Biblical model has the best chance of doing things right.

I went to congregational churches for years and years. Then, I decided to study more completely the church model from Scripture to see what the problem was. For me, the house church has the answers.

Check it out. There are two forms basically that are popular. The Simple Church and The House Church/ Whole Church. I do not agree with the Simple Church, but that is a long discussion, which perhaps, does not belong in this forum.

 

[KingZzub]

hi Mpaul... can you pm me your website, I would love to know more.

I pastor a house church which has grown into a cell church. I love hearing about people's ideas about this. Love to know what you mean by simple church as well.

 

[YoDude]

The perfect church is something like the perfect community, or the perfect job, or the perfect wife, etc.

In this perfect world, the church doors would swing open as you approached, and the members would be cheering at your arrival, and they would agree with all your sentiments, and they would applaud your quirky sense of style, and love you just the way you are, and you would never have to change, or attempt to fit in.

Now for the real world, the churches are changing, the congregations are changing, and the message packaging is changing. Okay, so the core members who were raised on Damnation and Hellfire don't like the new Dance and Song routines, and the screaming electric guitar, and drum solos, and slick video screens. So, what, you just quit? No, keep going, there may be new members who could benefit from your presence, they may not even know about the old church ways, they may not care either, but you will be there, to balance things, put your vessel out there and be counted. The church may need you, don't quit on it just cause the music is new and funky; I agree its silly, but the needs and issues of the new persons in the church are the same as they have always been - they are lost and hurting and are looking to the church for relief, that is why they are there - will you help, or run away?