Discussion on the topic of evolution - Who believes what?

[pitabread]

It's specific views on Darwinian naturalism I disagree with

By which you really mean metaphysical naturalism. And by which it would be far less confusing to everyone if you just called it that and stopped with the "Darwin"-this and "Darwin"-that.

It also might behoove you to know that Darwin is neither an authority on the subject of metaphysical naturalism, nor for that matter the modern Theory of Evolution (largely due to the fact he's been dead for over a hundred years).

 

[pitabread]

Again evolution isn't a theory it's a natural phenomenon. What your talking about is Darwinism and calling it ToE.

I don't subscribe to your made-up definitions of Darwinism (or apparently, The Theory of Evolution) and I've already told you that.

 

[mark kennedy]

I don't subscribe to your made-up definitions of Darwinism (or apparently, The Theory of Evolution) and I've already told you that.

Yes you do, in fact, you've abandoned the concept of defining your terms entirely. You just argue your ad hominem taunts in circles. It's a death spiral, never seen a Darwinian recover from.

 

[pitabread]

Yes you do, in fact, you've abandoned the concept of defining your terms entirely. You just argue your ad hominem taunts in circles. It's a death spiral, never seen a Darwinian recover from.

You're welcome to believe whatever you want to believe.

 

[mark kennedy]

You're welcome to believe whatever you want to believe.

Just as your welcome to ignore the life sciences and the epistemology of science.

 

[Speedwell]

No they don't.

Yes they do. Even Christians who think it's literal history do. .Even you do, though you no doubt call it typology.

Muslims don't believe in the Old Testament and the historic narratives of Genesis. They believe God created life but they don't make a big deal about it.

Muslims, being with us and the Jews the 'People of the Book,' take the Hebrew scriptures as an old testament in exactly the same way as we do. The Muslims add the Synoptics to theirs. A pious Muslim knows as much about the OT as any Christian. And yes, there are Muslim creationists, who base there beliefs on a literal interpretation of Genesis just like you do. ISIS, for example, are YECs.

 

[pitabread]

Just as your welcome to ignore the life sciences and the epistemology of science.

Well, one of us is ignoring it at any rate.

 

[Speedwell]

Is it really that difficult for creationists to grasp the difference in these concepts or is it a deliberate debate tactic?

To some extent at least it's a debate tactic. Creationists want to paint themselves as warriors in a cosmic struggle between good and evil. They want to encourage other theists to help them, perhaps, who would not otherwise be interested in the doctrinal difficulties of a Protestant Christian minority group.

 

[mark kennedy]

Well, one of us is ignoring it at any rate.

Finally something we agree on. Close encounters of the shrinking one liners.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

Scientific theory - Wikipedia

We need a new law, along the lines of Godwin's Law - "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a creationist saying 'evolution is just a theory' approaches 1".

 

[Everybodyknows]

We need a new law, along the lines of Godwin's Law - "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a creationist saying 'evolution is just a theory' approaches 1".

Except that you'll usually find it on the first page here on CF.

Hitler was an evolutionist btw

 

[YouAreAwesome]

Except that you'll usually find it on the first page here on CF.

Hitler was an evolutionist btw

I'm surprised it isn't written this way:

But evolution is just a fact.​

 

[Everybodyknows]

I'm surprised it is written this way:

But evolution is just a fact.​

But it's creationism that's a fact

 

[mark kennedy]

We need a new law, along the lines of Godwin's Law - "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a creationist saying 'evolution is just a theory' approaches 1".

The equivocation of Darwinian naturalistic assumptions with evolution is inevitable. That's not a law, there are laws of inheritance involved. You don't care about that and neither do the rest of them. Because it has nothing to do with science or evolution.

 

[FrumiousBandersnatch]

The equivocation of Darwinian naturalistic assumptions with evolution is inevitable. That's not a law, there are laws of inheritance involved. You don't care about that and neither do the rest of them. Because it has nothing to do with science or evolution.

Hmm, maybe I should have used a smiley, for the hard of understanding...

 

[Everybodyknows]

The equivocation of Darwinian naturalistic assumptions with evolution is inevitable. That's not a law, there are laws of inheritance involved. You don't care about that and neither do the rest of them. Because it has nothing to do with science or evolution.

But Godwin's Law is consistently observed to be true. William Lane Craig holds that it proceeds forth from the necessity of the divine nature.

 

[pitabread]

Hmm, maybe I should have used a smiley, for the hard of understanding...

Seriously. I could practically hear the "whoosh" as I read mark's reply.

 

[Everybodyknows]

Seriously. I could practically hear the "whoosh" as I read mark's reply.

He must be a Nazi

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Hello,

I'm not keen on arguing the case at all. I just hoped that folks here would be able to give me an answer on the below to perhaps ease the concern I'm feeling.

I'll say upright - I was baptised as a child, but I do not have any Christian beliefs. My mother is a very religious lady though, and it's because of her that I'm here.

I would like to know who here believes in evolution and who believes it is a work of fiction. My mother has recently told me that she doesn't believe in evolution - scientists invented it to disprove religion or God, or something of that nature. As she is growing older and she has always seemed otherwise quite rational, I just want to know - is this a common belief held by Christians? From my perspective, it worries me as I can't see how anyone could not believe in evolution (just as, I'm sure most people can't see how I could not believe in God and his great plans), and I feel as though maybe her mind is slipping. But if it is a common belief of Christians/religious people, then I can be reassured that it's just a difference between our beliefs and I needn't worry.

Please understand that I'm explaining from my own mindset and I don't want to come across as disbelieving or unpleasant on the topic - if I didn't explain that I don't believe in creation etc, then it wouldn't really make much sense to you why I was worried about my mother not believing in evolution.

I really hope I've explained this right and without offending anyone, and I look forward to your answers as to your beliefs and opinions on evolution.

I 'believe' the Theory of Evolution. And I'm a Christian. So, there you have it, although you might want to take a look at BioLogos.org to see how these two 'apparently' disparate lines of thought can actually be held together.

Peace,
2PhiloVoid

 

[mark kennedy]

Hmm, maybe I should have used a smiley, for the hard of understanding...

Which is just about everybody and I'm not kidding. I think you guys are obvious, even among yourselves.