Discussion on the 28 fundamental beliefs....

[Byfaithalone1]

Yes, I know some people who believe that, but their subset of Protestant Christianity is much smaller now than it was during the early years of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. My objection is to the assumption of many Adventists that all Christians who attend church on Sunday view Sunday as the Christian Sabbath. Often it becomes a strawman argument when they are talking to Christians who don't believe that.

I agree. It's time to move away from the rehashed arguments of the 1950s and enter into a discussion that releates to the world as it exists today. The teachings of the SDA denomination regarding "the mark of beast" are built on the assumption that the majority of modern Christianity has asked (or will ask) the world to view Sunday as the replacement sabbath. This assumption seems to be far removed from reality.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The beneficent Creator, after the six days of Creation, rested on the seventh day and instituted the Sabbath for all people as a memorial of Creation.

This statement tastefully avoids the issue of when it was instituted. As we've seen in this forum, many SDAs have a strong point of view on this subject.

The fourth commandment of God's unchangeable law requires the observance of this seventh-day Sabbath as the day of rest, worship, and ministry in harmony with the teaching and practice of Jesus, the Lord of the Sabbath.

Although the fourth commandment does include an instruction regarding rest, the concepts of worship and ministry are notably missing. Further, if we were to follow the practice of Jesus, we would work on the sabbath.

The Sabbath is a day of delightful communion with God and one another.

It could be. If it is, I would never wish to stand in the way of that. However, I wonder how often it is a day of "delightful communion."

It is a symbol of our redemption in Christ, a sign of our sanctification, a token of our allegiance, and a foretaste of our eternal future in God's kingdom.

Here's where the statements get more and more grandiose. However, these statement shoot themselves in the foot. If the sabbath foreshadows Jesus Christ, then the sabbath is not only a memorial of a past event, but also a shadow of a future event. If it is a shadow of Jesus Christ, then it has been fulfilled by Jesus Christ.

The Sabbath is God's perpetual sign of His eternal covenant between Him and His people.

An even more grandiose statement. However, it's interesting to do a word study of the word "perpetual." If we must define "perpetual" as "without end," then there are a number of other holy convocations that we should also be observing.

Joyful observance of this holy time from evening to evening, sunset to sunset, is a celebration of God's creative and redemptive acts.

Whose sunset? The sunset on the North Pole, South Pole, equator, Eastern Time Zone, Pacific Time Zone . . . . .?

BFA

 

[Joe67]

I agree. It's time to move away from the rehashed arguments of the 1950s and enter into a discussion that releates to the world as it exists today. The teachings of the SDA denomination regarding "the mark of beast" are built on the assumption that the majority of modern Christianity has asked (or will ask) the world to view Sunday as the replacement sabbath. This assumption seems to be far removed from reality.

BFA

BFA,

The 7 day weekly cycle is a replacement for the "endless life" that is given unto us in the resurrection of Jesus Christ.

The majority of professed christians are favorable toward meeting together on the same day every 7th day.

There is not a natural cycle that operates every 7 days.

Moses still rules the world with a rod of iron.

Even those who believe in a totally different calendar, they co-operate for the sake of commercial convenience.

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The majority of professed christians are favorable toward meeting together on the same day every 7th day.

I don't have a problem with that.

BFA

 

[AzA]

There is not a natural cycle that operates every 7 days.

There's not a planetary one, but planets are not the only markers of time. We have internal markers as well, some of which are influenced by our environment.

What do you know about circadian rhythms and chronobiology? (Am not talking about predictive "biorhythms".)

I don't specialize in this area, so I don't know much about it, but I know that it is medically investigated. Fascinating bodies!

 

[Joe67]

AzA,

Can you give me a synopsis?

Joe

 

[Joe67]

I don't have a problem with that.

BFA

BFA,

It will end inconveniently. It will be attended with woe, as our Lord said.

Mark 13:17
17 But woe to them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! KJV

Joe

 

[AzA]

Can you give me a synopsis?

In broadest-strokes -- that chrono-biological research is exploring how internal homeostasis/rheostasis (including BP fluctuations and light responsiveness) is regulated by the body clock. Some of our internal time cycles are longer than 24-25hrs long (the female cycle of 28-35+ days is one of the most obvious of these), but there are also indications that there is a septurnal cycle in plant, animal, and human subjects which, along with more material processes, could help explain the intuitive fit of the 7-day week in contemporary culture.
Worldwide there are and have been many weeks of other lengths, but collectively we've had no struggle training ourselves into the 7-day cycle.
End of the day, we don't have just one cycle. We have several overlapping internal cycles, and are affected by them all.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

It will end inconveniently.

What will end inconveniently?

BFA

 

[Joe67]

What will end inconveniently?

BFA

BFA,

The 7 day repeating cycle of business and worship at buildings made with hands.

Isa 28:17-22
17 Judgment also will I lay to the line, and righteousness to the plummet: and the hail shall sweep away the refuge of lies, and the waters shall overflow the hiding place.

18 And your covenant with death shall be disannulled, and your agreement with hell shall not stand; when the overflowing scourge shall pass through, then ye shall be trodden down by it.

19 From the time that it goeth forth it shall take you: for morning by morning shall it pass over, by day and by night: and it shall be a vexation only to understand the report.

20 For the bed is shorter than that a man can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it.

21 For the LORD shall rise up as in mount Perazim, he shall be wroth as in the valley of Gibeon, that he may do his work, his strange work; and bring to pass his act, his strange act.

22 Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord GOD of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth. KJV

Rev 16:17-17:1
17 And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.

18 And there were voices, and thunders, and lightnings; and there was a great earthquake, such as was not since men were upon the earth, so mighty an earthquake, and so great.

19 And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.

20 And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great. KJV

Joe

 

[Byfaithalone1]

The 7 day repeating cycle of business and worship at buildings made with hands.

That's not my reality. Worship is a part of my 24-hour cycle and isn't limited to a 7-day repeating cycle. Also, although I do tend to participate in corporate worship in regular intervals, even my corporate worship intervals aren't based on a 7-day cycle. For me personally, it is a blessing to be involved in a number of activities throughout the week.

BFA

 

[AzA]

BFA, a sidebar for conjecture:
Do you anticipate a 7-day baseline in the millennial age or thereafter in "new earth"?
I don't know what your sense is about all that stuff.

 

[Joe67]

That's not my reality. Worship is a part of my 24-hour cycle and isn't limited to a 7-day repeating cycle. Also, although I do tend to participate in corporate worship in regular intervals, even my corporate worship intervals aren't based on a 7-day cycle. For me personally, it is a blessing to be involved in a number of activities throughout the week.

BFA

BFA,

This is good and I am glad that you are in that freedom in the grace of God in the Lord Jesus Christ.

I hope you will never be bound in a 7 day weekly cycle by either work or worship and that your experience in these will be as a continual burnt offering to the Lord Jesus.

This is the freedom that the Lord gave Abram when he called him from the more industrialized society of his nativity and led him into the life of animal husbandry among the Amorites and formally worshiping at sundry/irregular intervals on the altars that he built.

Thus, we pray without ceasing, day and night, as a continual burnt offering to the Lord Jesus, waiting for him, the Consolation/Hope of Israel, to return for the adoption of the body, his Body.

Then we will forever be with the Lord, and follow him wherever he goes.

Let us joy in suffering for Jesus, through the holy Spirit of grace.

Joe

 

[StormyOne]

are we ready for the next fundamental?

 

[Byfaithalone1]

AZA: Do you anticipate a 7-day baseline in the millennial age or thereafter in "new earth"?
I don't know what your sense is about all that stuff.

I truly don't have a clue. At this point, I'm not even sure that there would be a 24-hour cycle.

I hope you will never be bound in a 7 day weekly cycle by either work or worship and that your experience in these will be as a continual burnt offering to the Lord Jesus.

Why are you so concerned for those who do have a 7-day weekly cycle? Although I agree with you that they need not be limited in this manner, I'm not sure that cycles are inherently destructive. I sense that many Christians who participate in corporate worship every seven days understand the value of praying without ceasing.

BFA

 

[Byfaithalone1]

are we ready for the next fundamental?

Bring it on!

BFA

 

[StormyOne]

Next number 21:

Stewardship:
We are God's stewards, entrusted by Him with time and opportunities, abilities and possessions, and the blessings of the earth and its resources. We are responsible to Him for their proper use. We acknowledge God's ownership by faithful service to Him and our fellow men, and by returning tithes and giving offerings for the proclamation of His gospel and the support and growth of His church. Stewardship is a privilege given to us by God for nurture in love and the victory over selfishness and covetousness. The steward rejoices in the blessings that come to others as a result of his faithfulness. (Gen. 1:26-28; 2:15; 1 Chron. 29:14; Haggai 1:3-11; Mal. 3:8-12; 1 Cor. 9:9-14; Matt. 23:23; 2 Cor. 8:1-15; Rom. 15:26, 27.)

 

[Avonia]

Next number 21:

I like the principle of this one. And I have a hard time reconciling being a good steward with giving 10% or more of my money to the SDA org. Given how much goes to administration, I don't know that it's the best use of my resources - and whether it best supports my intention of helping people.

 

[Byfaithalone1]

We are God's stewards, entrusted by Him with time and opportunities, abilities and possessions, and the blessings of the earth and its resources. We are responsible to Him for their proper use.

OK. I'm on board with this. However, I do wonder whether the average SDA is committed to stewardship of "the blessings of the earth and its resources." At least in my area of the world, that hasn't been a big focus.

We acknowledge God's ownership by faithful service to Him and our fellow men, and by returning tithes and giving offerings for the proclamation of His gospel and the support and growth of His church.

I have some concerns about this statement.

1. SDAism often talks about 2 categories of law: moral and ceremonial. Let's imagine that we all agreed with these 2 categories. Where does tithing fit? If it's a ceremonial law, its requirements have been filled full. If it's a moral law, it must be listed among the ten commandments. Further, what is the basis for teaching that tithing (as opposed to freewill giving) is an ongoing command?

2. Why does the SDA denomination discipline its employees if they provide offerings to a non-SDA charity or if they provide offerings that represent less than 10% of their income? Further, why do nominating committees consider the offerings of members prior to nominating them for church offices? Who has provided the SDA denomination the authority to take such actions?
​

Stewardship is a privilege given to us by God for nurture in love and the victory over selfishness and covetousness. The steward rejoices in the blessings that come to others as a result of his faithfulness.

I'm OK with that.

BFA

 

[Joe67]

I truly don't have a clue. At this point, I'm not even sure that there would be a 24-hour cycle.



Why are you so concerned for those who do have a 7-day weekly cycle? Although I agree with you that they need not be limited in this manner, I'm not sure that cycles are inherently destructive. I sense that many Christians who participate in corporate worship every seven days understand the value of praying without ceasing.

BFA

BFA,

Matt 7:13-14
13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. KJV

Matt 22:12-14
12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless.

13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

14 For many are called, but few are chosen. KJV

Joe