Discussion on Islam

[alibaba]

Peace to you brother,

Actually non-Muslims attack Muslims and they don’t want them to defend their self, Muslims do nothing but self-defense, they have the right to defend their prophet and their believes, just I am asking who start the aggression draw their prophet.

And who created terrorism, don’t terrorism has been created by the injustice policies of the main powers in the world?.! They occupied Palestine, Iraq, Afghanistan, and so on.
And when they defend their self, they claim that is terrorism. I am sure they will stop if they leave them alone.

Islam the religion of peace but it command Muslims to defend their self in case of aggression

Peace

I am ex muslim realizing Isa Al Masih as Jesus Christ Saviour of mankind worldwide. I look very deeply inside Islam and realize mohammed not to be angel of light and messenger of Allah. Messangers of God do not kill and have sex and marry God´s little inoccent children. In western world was a pedophile ! This is clear truth and real and the whole world should not hide this because of blind muslims who think they kill for Allah but really they kill for devil. God dont want us to kill each other, it is commandment. Teachings of otherwise is not teching of Jesus Christ and God, praise to their Holy names.
I not want conflict, I only say the reality.

 

[11sep]

Firstly,The people who have demonstrated are not from the moderate sides of Islam, just as those Christians who picket abortion clinics and plant bombs or threaten to kill doctors are not from the moderate side of Christianity.

And may I remind you, the acts of terrorists have been widely condemned, however these condemnations very often get very little coverage in the Western Media.

 

[11sep]

You should Consider first that what you get shown in your media is generally a very one-sided portrayal of the Muslim world.

For instance what does "Jihad" mean? Well, it's obvious,as the annoying dude here keeps saying, it means "Holy War", doesn't it? It means Muslims wiping out anything that is not Muslim.

Well, actually, no, it doesn't.
Jihad is an Arabic word that means "striving in the way of God." This striving can take a number of forms, including the daily inner struggle to be a better person. However, jihad is often used to refer to an armed struggle fought in defense of Islam.

If a Muslim wants to give up smoking, they could declare a "personal Jihad" against their habit, calling upon Allah to support and aid them in their struggle to quit.

But all you usually hear about "Jihad" is that it's about killing.

 

[Osiris]

Firstly,The people who have demonstrated are not from the moderate sides of Islam, just as those Christians who picket abortion clinics and plant bombs or threaten to kill doctors are not from the moderate side of Christianity.

Yes, this is exactly what I was looking for, yet some responses seem as they did not understand the question.

I believe that terrorists are not representatives of Islam (and whether America is a terrorist country, perhaps it is a terrorist country, perhaps it is not, this is not the issue of this thread). So, if Islam is a religion of peace and claims that their religion is a fast growing religion... if we took out all these false muslims out, would it be a fast growing religion? (I am not trying to say that it will not, it is just a question to discuss on...)

And if muslims are justified in defensive riots, wouldn't it good to riot against these extremist/terrorist muslims since they are offending the name of Islam?

Those were my two questions.... but some have gone off on a tangent...

 

[11sep]

again i remind you of the Media role in this matter.

two weeks ago,I watched the latest top story from BBC News 24.

Five minutes of video of protestors throwing petrol bombs at embassies and burning flags, plus reports of radical clerics saying that the Danish and French governments should apologise for their countries' newspapers printing the cartoons, plus reports of Muslims in France trying to sue the newspaper which reprinted them.

Oh and "Moderate Muslim leaders have called for calm."

What the hell is the point of them "calling for calm" when the media effectively helps the extremists drown them out?

Are the media reporting the story here or *making* the story?

 

[mallowpuff]

Firstly,The people who have demonstrated are not from the moderate sides of Islam, just as those Christians who picket abortion clinics and plant bombs or threaten to kill doctors are not from the moderate side of Christianity.

And may I remind you, the acts of terrorists have been widely condemned, however these condemnations very often get very little coverage in the Western Media.

Why do you call yourself 11sep?

 

[Adeeb]

ok I cannot answer all questions but I will try to answer one question. one person asked if muslims are allowed to commit acts of violence in protest like those going on today with cartoon incident or acts of violence in general against those hate Islam. the answer is no, we should not be running like savages killing people and spreading violence. it is haraam to kill innocents and to be the aggressor. Allah says in the Qur'an chapter 86 Vs 14-17
15) As for them, they are but plotting a scheme,
them refers to the enemies of Islam who plot schemes and lies against the the Prophet and Islam
16) And I am planning a scheme.
And Allah says that he is also planning a scheme against them.
17)So give a respite to the disbelievers. Deal you gently with them for a while.
This verse commands us to give respite to the unblievers which means we should leave them alone and deal gently with them.

also I want to point out that as usual the media is only focusing on the violent protests. yes there are some violent protests but there are much more peaceful protests going on that you won't hear about.

 

[Osiris]

ok I cannot answer all questions but I will try to answer one question. one person asked if muslims are allowed to commit acts of violence in protest like those going on today with cartoon incident or acts of violence in general against those hate Islam. the answer is no, we should not be running like savages killing people and spreading violence. it is haraam to kill innocents and to be the aggressor.

Yes... I am glad that you are able to understand the question to this point.

so... are muslims that commit haram, would it be okay to consider them real muslims?

my assumption is that, no, muslims that constantly commit haram like extremist terrorists do are not real muslims.

also I want to point out that as usual the media is only focusing on the violent protests. yes there are some violent protests but there are much more peaceful protests going on that you won't hear about.

Yes, I agree... I have no doubt the there non-violent protests done by muslims, but this is not the issue at hand.

My question was that muslims often say that islam is a fast growing religion... but is it really? Is it really a fast growing religion since it counts those muslims that constantly commit haram? IMO, I don't think there is a way to know if islam is a fast growing religion because we don't want to count those muslims that constantly commit haram as real muslims...

thanks Adeeb for your reply,
Osiris

 

[symbolic_agony]

I think you did not respond to my questions.

Terrorism is not an act of self defense. Muslims who have strapped bombs on their bodies and killed civilians inside buses, trains or crashing planes into buildings to kill civilians is not an act of self defense.

And what about the Jews who roll in with tanks and shoot at children... that's not terrorism? Of course not. You have to be musilm for your actions to be considered a form of terrorism. That's the disgusting double standard people can't seem to realize. It's terrorism when a plane hits the WTC but it's not terrorism when the US uses chemical weapons on a city in Iraq. Only the US can use WMD and it's only bad when Saddam does. This is the type of hypocrisy that makes people like you so utterly laughable.

In the UK, they have their own breed of terrorists... the IRA - They're all catholic.

 

[frankw]

And what about the Jews who roll in with tanks and shoot at children... that's not terrorism? Of course not. You have to be musilm for your actions to be considered a form of terrorism. That's the disgusting double standard people can't seem to realize. It's terrorism when a plane hits the WTC but it's not terrorism when the US uses chemical weapons on a city in Iraq. Only the US can use WMD and it's only bad when Saddam does. This is the type of hypocrisy that makes people like you so utterly laughable.

In the UK, they have their own breed of terrorists... the IRA - They're all catholic.

you know my neighbor,you can't have peace without LOVE,because GOD is love.You know the Gospel story, it's a love story.

 

[frankw]

you know my neighbor,you can't have peace without LOVE,because GOD is love.You know the Gospel story, it's a love story.

the more i see of this the more i amaze,the more i pour over these pages and read, my heart burns within me,why would God bless me so heavy,and fill me to full with Jesus!! remember the question "who is on The Lord's side" this total hatred of Israel just like God said, it is so strait out,it seems were going to find out soon as fast as events are unfolding.The God of Israel my God

 

[Osiris]

symbolic_agony, I hope you are not just someone that signed up and posted and never comes back to respond. The reason for that is that I've been explaining this over and over and over... you are using an illogical argument to respond to my questiong.

What you are using is called Red Herring.

And what about the Jews who roll in with tanks and shoot at children...

you seem to have been portrayed that jews are these monsters that get into tanks and just target muslim children.

you know, when I was a kid I was scared like that, my parents use to tell me that this monster used to kidnap children. so whenever I was crying, they would tell me that monster was nearby looking for me. i would get scared and stop crying....

but this topic is not about jews.... bringing jews into the topic is this red herring fallacy that I mentioned before.

that's not terrorism? Of course not.

and whether that's terrorism, it is not relevant... I hope that I get my point accross.

You have to be musilm for your actions to be considered a form of terrorism.

no... the question was:

islam is a religion of peace... therefore, islam condems terrorism, even terrorism committed by its members. muslims terrorists constantly commit haram, therefore they are not real muslims. so, if islam is considered to be a fast growing religion, but at the same time it is countint these muslims that commit haram... could islam really be considered a fast growing religion?

answering this question with: "well, the jews or americans do this..." does not answer the question, it is changing the topic!

Second question was, why can't real muslims call a jihad against these muslims that commit haram? If they have, there has been no progression...

That's the disgusting double standard people can't seem to realize. ..... This is the type of hypocrisy that makes people like you so utterly laughable.

No, it is not a double standard, my question has nothing to do with that... I just wished you at least tried to understand the question. It seems you just skimmed through the words and replied with a Red Herring.

In the UK, they have their own breed of terrorists... the IRA - They're all catholic.

Remember that I said, if you answer this question with: "well, the jews, americans, the IRA .... " ... it is not answering my question, it is just changing the topic and evading the question at hand. That is what we call a Red Herring.

 

[frankw]

hey everyone, what about the siucide bombings at Mosque's in Iraq???? these are called what????

 

[Arthra]

My view is that any religion can be distorted in time...that it's original elan can be lost and that it's followers can be misguided.

Whether there are more Muslims or Christians today is not really that easy to define because of the way statistics can be used. It doesn't really concern me about what is the fastest growing religion.. History can play tricks on how these things are perceived.

- Art

 

[Fares]

We dont care about if Islam is the fastest growing religion.
I couldn care less . But when they use it as a prouve
that the qu`ran is not corrupted then it becomes a issue .
Somehow they find it logic and for me its so dumb I cant
let it pass with out commenting on it .

 

[muslim_convert]

I would like to point out something about Islam which I have noticed recently. Well, muslims like any other members of other religions also commit logical fallacies regularly whenever they argue. One of such arguments which is used alot here is (sadly): "Islam is the fastest growing religion - implying islam is the best religion or somehow because is the fastest growing religion it must possess some truth to it."

Also, in recent news some (a lot) of muslims have been involved in violent protests because of drawings or because of what someone said about islam.

So, the points I would like to make are these:

1. Muslims claim that Islam is a religion of peace, and any acts of terrorism(or violence) cannot be attributed to islam but to religious extremists that don't know what islam means.

But the fact that alot of muslims have been rioting in Europe, in England, there's Al Qaeda, any many other violent groups -- which would count as alot of members of islam even though islam thinks down upon them.

So, if muslims say they have a large religion, they shouldn't forget that a part of that large population we have are these extremists which cause violence around the world. So... would Islam be a fast growing religion without these violent extremists? (Just a question to discuss on, I am not trying to bash Islam)


2. If the riots are justifiend; and if the muslims causing the riots in Europe condem terrorism, I think they are wasting their energies by rioting against drawings and what people say about Islam. If the riots are for a good cause and are justified, why doesn't Islam cause riots and violence against terrorists?

According to the experts, the aim of OBL is to expel Western forces from Arab/Muslim lands. In so far as these forces have prevented Muslims from practicing their religion and defending their lands, then I can not see any issue, from a Shariah point of view, in this goal. However, his methods have been to deliberatly target innocent civilians, effectively replicating the methods employed by the West or Israel. This goes against the Shariah.

The goal of Pres Bush and co. appears to be control of world’s resources and he has had natural allies among conservative Christian leaders seeking the destruction of Islam as a way of life. Their method is to support regimes in the middle east which has lead to countless deaths and suffering, as well as starving Iraqi’s and bringing about the deaths of 100s of thousands of children in order to depose Saddam. More recently, they have resorted to invasion and they reserve for themselves the right to use nuclear weapons.

Both the intention and the methods of the West are immoral.

So when you look at the actions and goals of a few Muslim vigilantes against the actions and goals of a “democratically elected” national leader, cheered on by equally prominent Christian leaders, there is no contest.

So a reminder:

“Hypocrite, first take the beam out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly how to remove the splinter from your brother's eye.” Mathew 7:5

 

[elijah115]

100s of thousands of children ? i didnt see an international report giving that figure. Where is your source ?

 

[muslim_convert]

100s of thousands of children ? i didnt see an international report giving that figure. Where is your source ?

United Nations and Human Rights Watch

 

[muslim_convert]

100s of thousands of children ? i didnt see an international report giving that figure. Where is your source ?

UNICEF (http://www.unicef.org/newsline/99pr29.htm)
"if the substantial reduction in child mortality throughout Iraq during the 1980s had continued through the 1990s, there would have been half a million fewer deaths of children under-five in the country as a whole during the eight year period 1991 to 1998" Unicef, 12 August 1999.

Denis Halliday, after resigning as first UN Assistant Secretary General and Humanitarian Coordinator in Iraq, The Independent, 15 October 1998:
"We are in the process of destroying an entire society. It is as simple and terrifying as that. It is illegal and immoral."
Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/183499.stm

 

[elijah115]

And do these reports blame the US, US christians, christians or the UN sanctitions on Iraq?