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Featured Discussion about Heaven

Discussion in 'Christian Philosophy & Ethics' started by Messianic Gentile, Mar 22, 2020.

  1. Messianic Gentile

    Messianic Gentile New Member

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    I have had a concern about how I might fit-in in Heaven for a couple decades. I thought I would bring this concern here for some discussion.

    Preachers tell us how Heaven is a place that will be like church 24/7. Well, I enjoy church, but not 24/7.

    Preachers tell us that Heaven is Glamorous, with mansions, streets of gold and gates of pearl. I'm not a glamorous person. I like poor and lived in.

    Preachers tell us that our probable age in the hear-after will be the equivalent to 25 years old. Scientist back this up, saying that humans grow to about the age of 25 and then they start dying. It is proposed that Adam and Eve were created at the equivalent age of 25. My problem is that I don't see myself as 25. I see myself as 12. I never wished to grow up. Peter Pan complex I guess, but inside I am not an adult, but a pre-pubescent boy of 12 years old.

    Preachers tell us that Heaven is filled with mass singing, worshiping and praising. The problem for me is that I am a Hermit. I hate crowds. Any gathering of over 2 or 3 people and I am very uncomfortable.

    I have been praying for decades to be allowed to be a solitary boy of 12 years old and preferably a naked boy because I hate clothes for all eternity, including my time in Heaven.

    So, I know I am not going to fit-in with others in Heaven. I only wanted to live until I was 25 years old or so, but unfortunately I have live three times that. The thought of living for all eternity as an adult, saddens me. It just isn't me. It's not the person Adonai (God) created when He created me.

    I know no one can give answers to exactly what Heaven is like. We have hints in the Bible, but nothing exact. I know during the thousand year reign of Yeshua HaMashiach on the earth, we are going to reign with Him. I am hoping to reign as a 12 year old, but I see nothing in God's Word that might be possible.

    So I am starting this discussion on what you think Heaven is going to be like? Do you think you are going to fit-in? Do you fit the standard description of Saint in Heaven, or are you odd like me? I am curious, because like I said, right now, Heaven isn't someplace I look forward to going to.
     
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  2. Basil the Great

    Basil the Great Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We have something in common. I do not like large crowds either and I stay at home most of the time. As for Heaven, your guess is as good as mine. I know what I hope Heaven is like. I want it to be something different for everyone, tailored to suit the needs/desires of the individual. Maybe one person will have a home in the desert and another in the mountains, etc.

    Regarding your hope to be a 12 year-old boy, I read somewhere recently that everyone in Heaven will be at a prime age, like in their 20's. My guess is that everyone will be suited to their needs. Hence, maybe you will be 12 year-old boy and maybe I will get one of Heavenly dreams come true as well?
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  3. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    We are closed from perceiving how great heaven will be for a good reason. That heaven will be like Church 24/7 is only a metaphorical for the elation we will experience in the presence of God.
     
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  4. friend of

    friend of Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Edit
     
  5. Messianic Gentile

    Messianic Gentile New Member

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    Both my mother and her father, my grandfather, have graduated to Heaven, and both of them, are like me, in that they never liked crowds. It's probably where I inherited my personality of being a hermit.

    I picture them together in Heaven in a cabin, along the river of life. During the day, which it is always day in heaven, they walk together in the woods away from all the Mass singing and praise going on inside the New Jerusalem. Someday soon, I will join them.
     
  6. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse just horsing around

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    I wouldn't be too worried about "fitting in"; if Jesus has imbued us with His righteousness, we will fit in.

    I like your image of the cabin by the river. While I can't think of any scriptures to support that specific image, I think many of the pastoral / agricultural images in scripture support it.

    And not wearing clothes? You're in luck; the righteous of Christ is all we need...
     
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  7. Jonaitis

    Jonaitis Pilgrim

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    Well, we do know quite a number of things about heaven. It will be on the new earth (2 Peter 3:13), and we will have glorified bodies that will be fit for that world (1 Corinthians 15:44). We won't be disembodied spirits floating around in some other dimension. There will be a resurrection of the dead, and our bodies will change to that of the glory of Christ. We will still have human experiences, but to the fullest and grandest measure. We will experience more of what it means to be made in the image there than here by far. We will glorify God, and in that rejoice, in our eating and drinking, in our activities and gatherings. It is the state of pure, undefiled joy. We will truly appreciate every valley, every river and every mountain the way it should be.

    All men that had known Christ here will live at peace with each other, and they will love and serve each other for the sole glory of God. All the effects of sin and the fall will be reversed, and all that it had done to us and this present age will never come to mind again. We will worship God will perfect hearts, in a perfect frame of mind, with perfect thoughts and perfect attitudes that would be pleasing to him. All that we will say and do will be in our relation to Christ. He will be the subject of our conversations, the driving force in our work (yes, work is not a result of the fall), the reason for everything in life there. He will be the theme of our existence. We will flourish toward greater and more glorious things than this world had ever achieved, but not for gaining any sense of self-worth or material wealth, for we won't lack it there, but simply to make the Lord glorious in us.

    It is a taste, but there is so much more.

    Of all the people, since creation, that has ever been numbered in the body of Christ, we will fill every corner of this planet. So keep that in mind!
     
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  8. OldWiseGuy

    OldWiseGuy Wake me when it's soup. Supporter

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    God will give each of us "the desire of our heart".
     
  9. Hazelelponi

    Hazelelponi Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Nvm..
     
    Last edited: Mar 22, 2020
  10. SkyWriting

    SkyWriting The Librarian Supporter

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    We will all be changed. It will fit us perfectly, each one.
     
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  11. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    All will enjoy heaven. There is nothing to dislike or be dissatisfied about. Disappointment, boredom, discomfort, sadness, hate, are feelings that won't exist in heaven. Its all good. Think about the most elated , happy moments you've ever experienced. Now, expand and increase those moments for eternity, while eliminating all the bad moments.
    We have misconceptions based on worldly values, our flawed character and fear. Heaven is perfect for everyone. Your limited imagination of how life will be with desires hoped for in this mysterious realm, will be totally blown away and forgotten the first moment you enter heaven.
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2020
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  12. Messianic Gentile

    Messianic Gentile New Member

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    I hear what you are saying. I know that we will all be happy. But we are still us in heaven. Yes, we get a heavenly body. Yes, all pain and sorry is taken away. But we are still us. We still have our soul, which is the inner us. So who we are goes to heaven. Which brings me back to my original thought. How can I, a person that doesn't like to be around people, fit-in in a place where we are supposed to be one big happy group.

    My spiritual gifts are servant/teacher. 50/50. I have spent much of my earthly life, behind the scenes serving those in the forefront. I have made sure preachers have had everything just like they wish it to be, before they preach. I have cared for missionaries so they can perform their callings. I serve. A servant doesn't like to be out front. We like to stay in the corner and observe. How can a servant enjoy a heaven where he is thrust out front into the crowd? Who I am here on earth, carries into heaven and then later back to earth to serve yet again during the millennial reign. I can see how I am happy here serving. I can see how I am going to be happy during Yeshua's reign on earth, I just can't see me being happy for that seven years in heaven.
     
  13. Darkhorse

    Darkhorse just horsing around

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    What makes you think you'll be thrust out front? I wouldn't like that either.

    If Jesus is any indication, there will be plenty of humble servants in heaven.
     
  14. Bob Crowley

    Bob Crowley Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Many years ago during my younger high school years I was crossing Moreton Bay outside Brisbane after a couple of weeks holiday at Point Lookout on Stradbroke Island. The first few days of the holiday had been hideous, with rain and gale force winds for a lot of it. What they call "The Gorge" was just full of stained foam.

    But then the weather cleared, and the second week was glorious. It was one of the best weeks that I've had.

    As we sailed back to Brisbane, I remember looking down at the water. I was entranced, as the beams of light seemed to be coming up from below the water. Obviously it was reflected, but it was beautiful. I could have stayed there for hours, but unfortunately the boat then entered the stained waters of the Brisbane River, and the hypnotic spell ended.

    I think God was trying to get a message through at the time, but I ignored it.

    Now it would not have mattered if I'd been 13 (which I think I was at the time) or 33 or 63, I still would have been entranced by the light seeming to come up out of the water.

    I think that if we're lucky enough to see the Beatific Vision in all His glory, we won't care what we are, or where we are, or what we look like - it will be so overpoweringly beautiful that everything else will just fade into the background.

    It will be like going from a storm wracked holiday in a tent, representing this life, moving to a week of glorious weather (purgatory?), culminating in a hypnotic episode where all our attention will be absorbed by the divine light, light so powerful that if were to glimpse it while still in our human bodies, it would kill us on the spot.

    I think some of these preachers think Heaven is just going to be another earth, except we won't have to mow the lawn on Saturday.
     
  15. Ronald

    Ronald Exhortations Supporter

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    The soul is the mind, will, emotions. Your personality is sort of a range of habits. But this soul has been tainted by sin (worldly things, desires, fleshly things.
    Your spirit that goes to heaven is not the same. "For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart." Hebrews 4:12.
    This is proof that they are not the same, if they can be divided. And that is exactly what happens when you die. You see we have been cleansed of sin, (our spirit that is). This is where God dwells in us. It is a separate compartment, obviously highly integrated, but it is the part of us that is cleansed, separate from our fleshly self. Sin dwells in the members of your flesh, well, that includes your mind, will, emotions. Yet this awesome God is able to separate all that is good from your soul and take it home with your spirit. So immediately on death, God looks at us pure, white as snow. So this "not liking to be around people" feeling won't exist. There will not be any awkward or uncomfortable moments.

    I commend you for your service to the Church. You have a gift to be a servant. But that is a temporal gift to use ON EARTH. They won't need servants in heaven. No one will be in need of your service. All the spiritual gifts were given in order to save and serve the Body of Christ on earth - so they are not needed in heaven. To add to all that, mercy, forgiveness, even hope are things that won't be needed up there. Faith is a certainty, a constant, yet on earth, there are levels of faith given. In heaven people will not need faith. "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen." Hebrews 11:1 Faith is an earthly gift, a hope for heaven and an eternal body, things that are not seen. When we get there, we will have it and see it, therefore even faith will not be needed. (I know that's my own strange logic - didn't learn that from anyone, so some may argue that point).
     
  16. SPF

    SPF Well-Known Member

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    If this is a subject that truly interests you. I highly recommend you read Heaven, by Randy Alcorn. It's the best book I've ever seen on this subject.

    We may not know everything about what heaven is going to be like, but we do know some things. We do know that God created us as both physical and spiritual beings. We do know that heaven is going to come down to earth. Our final place of eternity will actually be here, on earth, in our physical (glorified/perfected) bodies.

    If you're an introvert now, you'll probably be an introvert in heaven. Can you still love other people as an introvert? Of course you can, because you do now!

    Check out that book, I think it will really encourage you.
     
  17. Messianic Gentile

    Messianic Gentile New Member

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    Ronald. Not sure I believe as you do. Well that's not exactly true. I think we believe the same, just we understand it differently. For the Word, is the Word. It is truth, but how people understand the truth is sometimes different. Praise Adonai (God) for sending us Ruach HaKedesh (The Holy Spirit) to teach us.

    If I am understanding you correctly. You are saying the individual I am on earth, won't exist in Heaven. So the things that make me, me, won't exist either. Like being a hermit. Which then leads to, are we all the same, with no individuality? If that is what you are saying, then that is where we understand things differently. I believe we are still us in Heaven. Yes, a pure, sinless version of us, but none-the-less us.

    As for not being a servant any longer, because servants aren't needed in Heaven? But they are needed on earth and all of us are returning to earth during the millennial reign to serve with Yeshua HaMeshiach (Jesus the Christ). I see my training on earth now as schooling, preparing me to serve with Yeshua later.

    The theme of my discussion is more about the body we have in Heaven and later back on earth during the millennial reign. Upon the resurrection of the body, we receive a glorified body. But that body will look exactly like our earthly body, except it won't have any blemishes. It will be perfect. People I know on earth now, will be able to recognize me in Heaven. Our Lord's resurrected body is our example. It was free of all the scars from his passion, except those he chose to keep.

    My question through all this discussion, is simple. Will my soul and spirit, be placed in an adult body or could I hopeful have them placed in a boy's body?
     
  18. Messianic Gentile

    Messianic Gentile New Member

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    Ronald. Not sure I believe as you do. Well that's not exactly true. I think we believe the same, just we understand it differently. For the Word, is the Word. It is truth, but how people understand the truth is sometimes different. Praise Adonai (God) for sending us Ruach HaKedesh (The Holy Spirit) to teach us.

    If I am understanding you correctly. You are saying the individual I am on earth, won't exist in Heaven. So the things that make me, me, won't exist either. Like being a hermit. Which then leads to, are we all the same, with no individuality? If that is what you are saying, then that is where we understand things differently. I believe we are still us in Heaven. Yes, a pure, sinless version of us, but none-the-less us.

    As for not being a servant any longer, because servants aren't needed in Heaven? But they are needed on earth and all of us are returning to earth during the millennial reign to serve with Yeshua HaMeshiach (Jesus the Christ). I see my training on earth now as schooling, preparing me to serve with Yeshua later.

    The theme of my discussion is more about the body we have in Heaven and later back on earth during the millennial reign. Upon the resurrection of the body, we receive a glorified body. But that body will look exactly like our earthly body, except it won't have any blemishes. It will be perfect. People I know on earth now, will be able to recognize me in Heaven. Our Lord's resurrected body is our example. It was free of all the scars from his passion, except those he chose to keep.

    My question through all this discussion, is simple. Will my soul and spirit, be placed in an adult body or could I hopeful have them placed in a boy's body?
     
  19. faroukfarouk

    faroukfarouk Fading curmudgeon

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    I like the imputed righteousness language imagery Ezekiel 16 where Zion is clothed by the Lord.
     
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