Dilbert dropped as scott adams declares blacks to be a hate group.

[JSRG]

These days I find better comics online. They can be edgier, sillier, and more topical than what is in the paper.

Being in the paper still pays the big bucks, and a comic gets to stick around because it is reliable and consistent. That is what the paper wants, not to shock its readers but to give them a break from all the news they deliver. Yes, there are good upcoming comic strips out there, but they have more success and readers online these days instead of fighting it out for the limited page space.

Plus, not many comic drawers can keep up with the 6 strips a week, and one big strip on Sundays schedule for a long time. It is a hard job.

I don't think 7 strips a week is particularly strenuous. Certainly it's absolutely nothing compared to what manga artists produce (typically 19 pages for a weekly series, 30-40 pages for a monthly one, and note those pages tend to be much more detailed than basically any newspaper comic strip), even accounting for the fact that manga artists typically have several people to assist with the drawing. And if we want to just talk about comic strip artists, remember that Bill Hollbrook has been doing three daily newspaper comics since 1995 (okay, one of them is technically a webcomic, but its format is exactly like that of a newspaper comic, including the Sunday strip being extra long). Now, I know the fact someone can do three daily newspaper strips doesn't mean everyone can, but my point is that if someone can do three of them (and do all three for 28 years), even if that person is exceptional, it should be very possible to do one third of that work.

The hard part of a newspaper comic strip, at least a comedy one, would be coming up with jokes frequently enough that you can have one each day.

 

[dzheremi]

Or you can just do what Jim Davis has done for years and deliberately make your comic unfunny and repetitive because you make more in merchandising than you ever could in actually getting published in newspapers. That works too. Then all the pressure to come up with jokes is gone!

 

[Paulos23]

I don't think 7 strips a week is particularly strenuous. Certainly it's absolutely nothing compared to what manga artists produce (typically 19 pages for a weekly series, 30-40 pages for a monthly one, and note those pages tend to be much more detailed than basically any newspaper comic strip), even accounting for the fact that manga artists typically have several people to assist with the drawing. And if we want to just talk about comic strip artists, remember that Bill Hollbrook has been doing three daily newspaper comics since 1995 (okay, one of them is technically a webcomic, but its format is exactly like that of a newspaper comic, including the Sunday strip being extra long). Now, I know the fact someone can do three daily newspaper strips doesn't mean everyone can, but my point is that if someone can do three of them (and do all three for 28 years), even if that person is exceptional, it should be very possible to do one third of that work.

The hard part of a newspaper comic strip, at least a comedy one, would be coming up with jokes frequently enough that you can have one each day.

It really depends on the individual. First, there are the material, storyline, and jokes. That takes effort all by itself. Then there is drawing it out, and depending on the style and how detailed it is, that can take a lot of time.

There is a reason that some cartoonists have hired a team once they had enough cash rolling in.

 

[durangodawood]

I thought the various characters hair in Dlibert was funny.

 

[jayem]

What's so wrong about an unpopular opinion that it needs punishment?

What's wrong with a private publisher refusing to be associated with an author whose opinions they find offensive?

 

[Ana the Ist]

What's wrong with a private publisher refusing to be associated with an author whose opinions they find offensive?

Is that why they did it?

Because I can certainly imagine that a newspaper would have some sentiments that might lead them to carefully curate the beliefs of every single person they publish, edit, employ, etc....


But that sounds dumb...and sounds like a bad business strategy. Watching these businesses that try to do such things....or appeal to the most fragile amongst us go down in flames seems to be a pattern.

Not to say Dilbert will sink any specific publisher....but you can only cut so many profitable employees before you become a dumpster fire.

 

[RDKirk]

Is that why they did it?

Because I can certainly imagine that a newspaper would have some sentiments that might lead them to carefully curate the beliefs of every single person they publish, edit, employ, etc....


But that sounds dumb...and sounds like a bad business strategy. Watching these businesses that try to do such things....or appeal to the most fragile amongst us go down in flames seems to be a pattern.

Not to say Dilbert will sink any specific publisher....but you can only cut so many profitable employees before you become a dumpster fire.

This isn't anything new. Employers have for decades and decades fired employees who they believed made them look bad to their customers and prospective customers. That's not something that's just started recently.

If Adams hadn't "gone on broadcast" with his views, the editors wouldn't otherwise have done any "careful curating" of his beliefs.

Actually, his views had been fairly clear a couple of years ago, for people following his blog. I had certainly noticed it. He'd just been more subtle.

 

[dzheremi]

I watched the clip of his rant on YouTube, and of course it's horrifically evil and racist, but I want to know why it is he thinks that he's been supporting the black community all of his life. He really said that, and I can't imagine on what basis. Do black people like or otherwise support Dilbert? Was Scott Adams known to be a vocal supporter of black causes or businesses or whatever before this? I don't want to stereotype anyone here, but I kind of doubt the answer to either of those questions is yes. So he came across as not only a racist trash bag, but also pretty darn delusional. Good riddance to bad rubbish, I say.

 

[Ana the Ist]

This isn't anything new. Employers have for decades and decades fired employees who they believed made them look bad to their customers and prospective customers. That's not something that's just started recently.

If Adams hadn't "gone on broadcast" with his views, the editors wouldn't otherwise have done any "careful curating" of his beliefs.

Actually, his views had been fairly clear a couple of years ago, for people following his blog. I had certainly noticed it. He'd just been more subtle.

I hadn't paid him any attention...but if the people demanding his cancelation are actually the same that supported his work....I'd be surprised.

When you look at what happened to Rogan....the attempt to "cancel" him actually gained him more followers/subscribers. That could be the hacky sort of nature of the attempt to cancel him...but it seems like the smarter strategy is to just wait a couple of weeks and see if it actually negatively affects business.

After all, if the mere utterance of an opinion I hear from black people all the time offends someone because it came from a white guy who made his money drawing a cartoon strip....

The internet isn't for you. There's a whole world of opinions you are too fragile to deal with. Just unplug.

 

[RDKirk]

I hadn't paid him any attention...but if the people demanding his cancelation are actually the same that supported his work....I'd be surprised.

When you look at what happened to Rogan....the attempt to "cancel" him actually gained him more followers/subscribers. That could be the hacky sort of nature of the attempt to cancel him...but it seems like the smarter strategy is to just wait a couple of weeks and see if it actually negatively affects business.

After all, if the mere utterance of an opinion I hear from black people all the time offends someone because it came from a white guy who made his money drawing a cartoon strip....

The internet isn't for you. There's a whole world of opinions you are too fragile to deal with. Just unplug.

Newspapers acted before there was any substantial "people demanding his cancelation."

 

[jayem]

i’m Is that why they did it?

Because I can certainly imagine that a newspaper would have some sentiments that might lead them to carefully curate the beliefs of every single person they publish, edit, employ, etc....


But that sounds dumb...and sounds like a bad business strategy. Watching these businesses that try to do such things....or appeal to the most fragile amongst us go down in flames seems to be a pattern.

Not to say Dilbert will sink any specific publisher....but you can only cut so many profitable employees before you become a dumpster fire.

I know of no large business that doesn’t have a code of conduct for employees. Which states that rude, insulting language directed at a co-worker—be it written or spoken—is a violation.

I’m sure Scott Adams isn’t an employee. He’s a client of the publisher. But their expectations of proper conduct would also apply to him. AFAIK, most contracts between a service provider and a client allow either party to sever the relationship at any time, for any reason. Adams’ disrespectful, un-called for comments directed at Black people would be more than enough to trigger a separation.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Newspapers acted before there was any substantial "people demanding his cancelation."

Oh? I heard about the utterance....and then heard about his cancelation maybe 24-48 hours later. That's pretty typical of those canceled. One early example was a girl making a joke on a flight (not funny imo and certainly racist or at least in bad taste) and fired before she landed because it went viral.

 

[Ana the Ist]

I know of no large business that doesn’t have a code of conduct for employees. Which states that rude, insulting language directed at a co-worker—be it written or spoken—is a violation.

Right but that's at work...if we extend it out to the public sphere, then you may as well just abandon freedom of speech entirely. He didn't say those things in his comic strip.

I’m sure Scott Adams isn’t an employee. He’s a client of the publisher.

That's interesting....so the publisher should be working for him.

But their expectations of proper conduct would also apply to him.

He has to run his opinions by the people who work for him?

AFAIK, most contracts between a service provider and a client allow either party to sever the relationship at any time, for any reason.

Eh...I don't know what sort of contract you're thinking of but the vast majority are going to contain clauses for violating the contract....so those contracted can recoup any losses.

Adams’ disrespectful, un-called for comments directed at Black people would be more than enough to trigger a separation.

What disrespectful comments? It's almost word for word the same rhetoric that BLM shouted about all over these same publishers for years. Literally.

-when they say they want "black only spaces/neighborhoods/communities" what exactly do you think that means?

-when they tell "white allies" they are irredeemably racist and they have to engage in a lifelong process of destroying their "whiteness" what do you think that means?

-when they tell white people it doesn't matter if they have black friends, coworkers, employees, etc, they're still inherently racist....?

Tell me the part about what he said that you don't think was central to the narrative proudly proclaimed and repeated by BLM for years....and many white people went right along with it...on the left. As far as I can tell, he is just telling those same people he got the message and he agrees.

 

[RDKirk]

Right but that's at work...if we extend it out to the public sphere, then you may as well just abandon freedom of speech entirely. He didn't say those things in his comic strip.




That's interesting....so the publisher should be working for him.





He has to run his opinions by the people who work for him?




Eh...I don't know what sort of contract you're thinking of but the vast majority are going to contain clauses for violating the contract....so those contracted can recoup any losses.



What disrespectful comments? It's almost word for word the same rhetoric that BLM shouted about all over these same publishers for years. Literally.

-when they say they want "black only spaces/neighborhoods/communities" what exactly do you think that means?

-when they tell "white allies" they are irredeemably racist and they have to engage in a lifelong process of destroying their "whiteness" what do you think that means?

-when they tell white people it doesn't matter if they have black friends, coworkers, employees, etc, they're still inherently racist....?

Tell me the part about what he said that you don't think was central to the narrative proudly proclaimed and repeated by BLM for years....and many white people went right along with it...on the left. As far as I can tell, he is just telling those same people he got the message and he agrees.

Right now you're just arguing to be arguing. You know how things have always worked. This isn't new.

 

[Ana the Ist]

Right now you're just arguing to be arguing. You know how things have always worked. This isn't new.

How things have always worked?

I have never sought the extra judicial punishment of anyone....especially for something as petty as their opinions or beliefs. I can't actually imagine being that childish or fragile.

I guess my mistake was imagining we were past the whole mob justice thing. It's sad.

 

[dzheremi]

How things have always worked?

I have never sought the extra judicial punishment of anyone....especially for something as petty as their opinions or beliefs. I can't actually imagine being that childish or fragile.

I guess my mistake was imagining we were past the whole mob justice thing. It's sad.

'Mob justice'? He's not hacked up in the street like an atheist blogger in Bangladesh or something, and there's no reasonable chance that he ever could be. The drama over a racist piece of garbage like Adams getting dropped by publishers for being radioactive is really not warranted.

 

[Ana the Ist]

'Mob justice'? He's not hacked up in the street like an atheist blogger in Bangladesh or something, and there's no reasonable chance that he ever could be.

No...and I can't honestly say how much income he lost. That was the point though...loss of employment, income and impoverishment. That doesn't even touch on what must be the extremely difficult prospect of finding employment again.

And the concerning part to me is not only are my fellow countrymen so stupid, petty, or vengeful but they have absolutely no standards regarding whom this should happen to, for which offense, and they target people whom they don't know at all....aren't celebrities or wealthy....but are just regular people. People who serve them coffee. People who serve them. I've even seen it happen to a soccer player over something his wife said. They are the worst people I've been unfortunate enough to live amongst...petty intolerant cowards.

The drama over a racist piece of garbage like Adams getting dropped by publishers for being radioactive is really not warranted.

I'll ask again....what's the racist statement? It looks like stuff the left largely agrees with. It's definitely things they've advocated.

 

[NxNW]

No...and I can't honestly say how much income he lost. That was the point though...loss of employment, income and impoverishment. That doesn't even touch on what must be the extremely difficult prospect of finding employment again.

He's likely worth many millions and could have retired at any time.

I'll ask again....what's the racist statement? It looks like stuff the left largely agrees with. It's definitely things they've advocated.

Tone deaf, much?

 

[dzheremi]

No...and I can't honestly say how much income he lost. That was the point though...loss of employment, income and impoverishment. That doesn't even touch on what must be the extremely difficult prospect of finding employment again.

What do you mean "finding employment again"? He didn't get fired from a blue collar factory job or something. He was already a millionaire before this happened, and being dropped from newspapers now doesn't retroactively take away the money he already has.

And the concerning part to me is not only are my fellow countrymen so stupid, petty, or vengeful but they have absolutely no standards regarding whom this should happen to, for which offense, and they target people whom they don't know at all....aren't celebrities or wealthy....but are just regular people.

Even if this is true, this doesn't apply to Scott Adams. The average person did not create Dilbert and get rich from it. The average person does not have an estimated net worth of $50-75 million.

People who serve them coffee. People who serve them. I've even seen it happen to a soccer player over something his wife said. They are the worst people I've been unfortunate enough to live amongst...petty intolerant cowards.

Again, this is irrelevant. This thread is not about someone who serves someone coffee, or what Scott Adams' wife may have said. You are aware you can actually watch Scott Adams' rant on YouTube, completely unfiltered, and decide for yourself if you think his comments were okay or not, right? You don't have to bring in all these other examples, as though it is helpful or illuminating to this particular case. It very much isn't.

I'll ask again....what's the racist statement? It looks like stuff the left largely agrees with. It's definitely things they've advocated.

'The left' has called black Americans as a group a 'hate group'? Huh. I admit I'm not as politically active as I used to be in my younger days, but I am still surprised I missed that. Seems like it'd be pretty news, if it actually happened.

 

[jayem]

Right but that's at work...if we extend it out to the public sphere, then you may as well just abandon freedom of speech entirely. He didn't say those things in his comic strip.

Freedom of speech is still there for everyone. But that doesn't equate to freedom from consequences.

He has to run his opinions by the people who work for him?

Of course not. But in this day and age, there are repercussions for going public with derogatory comments about race, religion, nationality, and sexuality. To name a few. Didn't Kanye West lose several social media accounts--and his clothing contract with Adidas--because of his antisemitic posts? Like it or not, it's the the times we live in.

That's interesting....so the publisher should be working for him.

The publisher (in the newspaper comic strip world, I think the proper term is the syndicate) does work for him. It sells the strips to the papers, collects the revenue, takes its portion off the top, and pays the the rest to the cartoonist. AFAIK, the syndicate can drop a client if it doesn't like something he wrote or said publicly. But maybe Adams can find a different syndicate willing to work with him. Or he can self syndicate and sell his work without a 2nd party.