Digital Photo Quality

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Since I'm going to be going digital in the near future, I've been reading up on various digital photography subjects. One thing bothers me, though; it seems like no matter what you do, when you move photos from your camera to a computer and save them, you lose quality. I'm also seeing that quality just isn't as good with digital SLRS as film SLRS. The book I'm reading is about 6 years old, which I fully know means "obsolete" in the digital world, but I'm wondering those problems are still an issue. I see lots of great digital pictures in this forum, so I'm hoping they're not.
 

Boss_BlueAngels

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Did they even have digital cameras 6 years ago?

First of all, DSLRS can shoot in RAW mode which is an uncompressed file format that eliminates the loss of quality. You can then make your changes to that file, convert to jpg or whatever format you need, and the RAW file is still 100% intact. In fact, you can even revert back to the original condition.

When you're talking about 8, 10, and 16 MP images, the quality can certainly compete with film quality.
 
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Boss_BlueAngels

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Man, I remember when my parents 1.5 mp camera was "sooooo cool!" lol

But yes, digital cameras have certainly come a VERY LONG WAY. And are continuing to get even better. Someday in the not too far future people are going to be asking how we were able to put up with those grainy 10mp cameras.:sorry:
 
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fieldmouse3

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I definitely don't plan on getting anything less than 6mp...in fact, I'm shooting for 8 or more.

Man, I really thought learning all this digital stuff would be a snap because I've been working SLRs for awhile already, but there's more new stuff than I thought there would be. Good things I find it interesting, or I'd be in trouble. :)
 
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MarkEvan

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I`ll presume that since you use film SLR`s that you`ll be going with digital SLR`s, if so shoot RAW, sure the file sizes are bigger but when transfering files it uses a process that does not loose any of the quality. Out of curiosity what camera were you thinking of?

Mark :)
 
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fieldmouse3

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Well, I've got two in mind, but I'm still looking around for toher possibilities. The first is the 10 mp Canon Digital Rebel, and the second is the Pentax K10D. I don't know about the Pentax, though, because the image quality is iffy compared to other cameras in its class.
 
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MarkEvan

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Well, I've got two in mind, but I'm still looking around for toher possibilities. The first is the 10 mp Canon Digital Rebel, and the second is the Pentax K10D. I don't know about the Pentax, though, because the image quality is iffy compared to other cameras in its class.

Sorry I didn`t realsie that you were the same person asking about the Pentax...guess my minds not as fast as it used to be, what have people said about the image quality, why is it "iffy," compared to others.

Mark :)
 
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MarkEvan

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Actually, I'm going by the tests they did on www.dpreview.com. The pictures are noticably fuzzier than the ones from other cameras.

Thats a lot of pages of tests! But yes the noise does not seem to be as well controlled as Nikons or Canons. You know for the amount that you are looking at for the K10D, if you shop around you can get a 30D for the same price, or you could get a good condition second hand 20D for less than a 400D (xti), just a few thoughts.
To be honest though, the picture quality of the K10D looks good enough if you take a look at some sample shots.

Do you have any SLR gear already (film).

Mark :)
 
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fieldmouse3

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Yes, I have a Minolta film camera and 2 lenses, but I don't want to carry any of that over. I was just never very satisfied with the results I got with that one. The lenses really aren't up to snuff, which leads to blurry, faded-looking pictures most of the time. They turn out better when I use only manual settings, but I like having the option of using automatic sometimes, too.
 
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chaz345

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Since I'm going to be going digital in the near future, I've been reading up on various digital photography subjects. One thing bothers me, though; it seems like no matter what you do, when you move photos from your camera to a computer and save them, you lose quality. I'm also seeing that quality just isn't as good with digital SLRS as film SLRS. The book I'm reading is about 6 years old, which I fully know means "obsolete" in the digital world, but I'm wondering those problems are still an issue. I see lots of great digital pictures in this forum, so I'm hoping they're not.

Transferring a jpg or any other compressed file from one place to another does not cause a quality loss. Opening it, MAKING CHANGES, and recompressing is what causes quality loss. Shooting at the highest jpeg quality with any modern SLR will result in images that are more than adequate for all but the most demanding professional work. I'd go so far as to say that with any DSLR above 6MP the quality differences between that and 35mm film will be practically imperceptable, assuming quality printing equipment,up to sizes in the 16X20 neighborhood. If the absolute maximum quality is required then shooting RAW is always an option, but that requires vastly larger amounts of hard drive space, and potentially a lot of time processing the images into something viewable.
 
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TexasCatholic

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Yes, I have a Minolta film camera and 2 lenses, but I don't want to carry any of that over. I was just never very satisfied with the results I got with that one. The lenses really aren't up to snuff, which leads to blurry, faded-looking pictures most of the time. They turn out better when I use only manual settings, but I like having the option of using automatic sometimes, too.

Well, if you don't plan to carry any of your equipment over, my personal recommendation is to go with a Canon. I had this same debate going myself in December, when I decided to go "SLR" instead of point and shoot.

Now, if you *did* want to keep your Minolta lenses, you could get the Sony A100, but personally, I'm not a big fan of that camera when compared to Canon or Nikon. The Pentax is okay, but lens selection is smaller and they are less consistent over the years with keeping up with technology. In fact, the K10D is their first truly competitive digital SLR.

I prefer Canon because a) best lens selection b) best sensors with the least "noise" (similar to grain in film) and highest ISO capabilities and c) they are right on top of technology and in fact, pretty much invented and continue to innovate in the area of digital SLR cameras.

Now, as far as film vs. digital... using regular 35mm negative film and printing images at any standard photo place, you will not be able to beat a modern (current model) digital SLR. Also, whoever said you lose quality transferring images.... Huh?! The opposite is true. Digital is digital. Bits & bytes don't change. If you copy a digitial image, in fact, you NEVER lose any of the original quality. If you shoot in JPEG mode, your JPEG will never "lose quality" from how it comes out of the camera. Now, if you process it a bunch in software, etc, and re-save it, there is a THEORETICAL loss of quality with the re-compression, but in reality it is indistinguishable. Furthermore, you just go back to the original file (which you kept, right?), and what you have is even better than a film negative... it never gets dusty never gets scratches and never loses color or quality in any form or fashion. Any possible losses (miniscule as they are) from JPEG compression can be 100% eliminated by shooting in "RAW"... but RAW images are huge and take up tons of space, so unless it's a critical image (e.g. a well set-up scene that I spent a lot of time with), I just shoot JPEGS at "normal" quality, which is awesome.

I don't want to sway you away from Nikon, but if you're familiar and capable of shooting with manual settings, you will be more happy with the Canon cameras (IMO). If you expect to put it on "Auto" (green box setting), and get perfect pictures, you won't be happy - get a Nikon. Auto doesn't let you adjust exposure, color, sharpness or anything, so I'd avoid that. I do use "P" Program mode a lot, though, but it allows for customization and I also often use Aperture priority mode, to stop down the "kit" lens or to keep a wide aperture on my 50mm F1.8 lens, for shallow depth of field portraits.

One fair warning that I have found out... Other than the Canon 50mm 1.8 II lens, which can be had for about $70-80, all of the truly good lenses start at $300 for a prime (no zoom) lens and $550 for any type of zoom (e.g. the 70-200mm F4 "L" lens, without image stabilization, which is IMO the smokin' best deal you can get on the best possible zoom for the money!). In other words, if you buy one of the $200-ish zoom lenses, be aware, you're getting a lens that is much, much poorer in quality. That's OK if you are able to accept that, but if that is upsetting to you, save that money until you can get an "L" lens (any Canon lens with "L" in the name, e.g. 50mm f1.2L, 70-200mm f4L, etc.). I don't have one yet, but man do I want one!

I recommend the Rebel XTi with the "kit" lens. The lens is not great, but for the price, it is a great little zoom to start out with and carry anywhere with no worries. Also, I would just go ahead and immediately order the Canon 50mm f1.8 lens for $70-80 and use it for portraits and indoor shots with limited light. F1.8 vs. F3.5-5.6 for most lenses!!! It makes a monstrous difference and the 50mm is "sharp" too.

Good luck,

Michael
 
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rdale

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One fair warning that I have found out... Other than the Canon 50mm 1.8 II lens, which can be had for about $70-80, all of the truly good lenses start at $300 for a prime (no zoom) lens and $550 for any type of zoom (e.g. the 70-200mm F4 "L" lens, without image stabilization, which is IMO the smokin' best deal you can get on the best possible zoom for the money!). In other words, if you buy one of the $200-ish zoom lenses, be aware, you're getting a lens that is much, much poorer in quality. That's OK if you are able to accept that, but if that is upsetting to you, save that money until you can get an "L" lens (any Canon lens with "L" in the name, e.g. 50mm f1.2L, 70-200mm f4L, etc.). I don't have one yet, but man do I want one!

I recommend the Rebel XTi with the "kit" lens. The lens is not great, but for the price, it is a great little zoom to start out with and carry anywhere with no worries. Also, I would just go ahead and immediately order the Canon 50mm f1.8 lens for $70-80 and use it for portraits and indoor shots with limited light. F1.8 vs. F3.5-5.6 for most lenses!!! It makes a monstrous difference and the 50mm is "sharp" too.
+1 to your advice TexasCatholic

We got our XTi for Christmas, with the kit lens, and only last weekend I picked up the Canon 50mm 1.8 II lens. Hopefully by summer we'll pick up a good L series zoom lens too. This camera is an absolute hoot.

If you have an external hard drive to save your images on, that works quite well for the larger RAW files. Have been messing around using Capture One LE to work with the RAWs, saving to tiff from there, then exporting to jpg/psd in Photoshop. Fun stuff...
 
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Boss_BlueAngels

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I still have mixed emotions regarding shooting RAW vs. JPEG.

I like the idea of the pictures being totally uncompressed and unedited by the camera and being able to back them up easily.

But then again, as soon as I download my pictures from my card I immediately copy them to DVD before even looking at them so that if something happens to the computer I still have the original files.

As for lenses... don't even get me started on that. :)
 
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rdale

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But then again, as soon as I download my pictures from my card I immediately copy them to DVD before even looking at them so that if something happens to the computer I still have the original files.
How are you cataloging your images, or in other words how do you know where what images reside on which disc?
As for lenses... don't even get me started on that. :)
Please do... love to glean your experience/perspective.
 
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