Difficult Christians

[Fivesenses]

I'm conflicted as to what to feel or approach this situation. What are your thoughts on interacting and building meaningful relationships with fellow Christians who come across as self righteous and narrow minded? (Eg denying most entertainment and amusement - making a rule for others that this should be the way in order to deny the flesh including only reading bible, Christian novel, only listening to Christian music, only watching Christian movies and sermons). If anyone disagrees or find them difficult to approach, then they say that they are separated from the world and being persecuted - so they rejoice in their suffering. But what I see is that they are just difficult people to approach, strict and off putting - I am surrounded by many (by circumstance) and I feel something in me that is uncomfortable and almost repressed. There is no true sense of freedom and joy even though theoretically I know that God is the source of joy. Is it just me being the worldly Christian who does not like the long list of rules and whole idea about cutting everything enjoyable out from our lives because every possible little thing can possibly become an idol? I feel suffocated and just want to move away ... is it just me or are these people really annoying??

If I disagree with them then I'm accused as being unrighteous and not set apart.. because they are the strong Christians who cut off all pleasure and fleshly desires so Im the ungodly or worldly Christian (it honestly feels like a monastery). There is no other way than to shut my mouth and appear to agree if I am to stay around but that means a huge step and change in my life.

 

[Blood Bought 1953]

At best they are “weak Believers....at worst they could just phony “ religious in appearance” unbelievers.....we are to suffer the weak but not to the point that we let them overtake the church.."...sounds like you have suffered enough go find someplace where you can find some friends who are strong ,non-judgemental, true Christians
God bless

 

[Sarah G]

I totally agree with Blood Bought so I can't really add much. It reminds me of the Christians in the Bible belt here. Their lives are so grim and joyless that their only desire is to die.

Matthew 11:29-30
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.''

 

[faroukfarouk]

I totally agree with Blood Bought so I can't really add much. It reminds me of the Christians in the Bible belt here. Their lives are so grim and joyless that their only desire is to die.

Matthew 11:29-30
Take My yoke upon you and learn from Me; for I am gentle and humble in heart, and you will find rest for your souls. For my yoke is easy and my burden is light.''

Great verse there. Some of the Gereforneerden don't clearly see about the church being under grace rather than law.

 

[Phil 1:21]

I'm conflicted as to what to feel or approach this situation. What are your thoughts on interacting and building meaningful relationships with fellow Christians who come across as self righteous and narrow minded? (Eg denying most entertainment and amusement - making a rule for others that this should be the way in order to deny the flesh including only reading bible, Christian novel, only listening to Christian music, only watching Christian movies and sermons). If anyone disagrees or find them difficult to approach, then they say that they are separated from the world and being persecuted - so they rejoice in their suffering. But what I see is that they are just difficult people to approach, strict and off putting - I am surrounded by many (by circumstance) and I feel something in me that is uncomfortable and almost repressed. There is no true sense of freedom and joy even though theoretically I know that God is the source of joy. Is it just me being the worldly Christian who does not like the long list of rules and whole idea about cutting everything enjoyable out from our lives because every possible little thing can possibly become an idol? I feel suffocated and just want to move away ... is it just me or are these people really annoying??

If I disagree with them then I'm accused as being unrighteous and not set apart.. because they are the strong Christians who cut off all pleasure and fleshly desires so Im the ungodly or worldly Christian (it honestly feels like a monastery). There is no other way than to shut my mouth and appear to agree if I am to stay around but that means a huge step and change in my life.

It depends on one’s perspective, I suppose. I remember a situation where a friend of mine was called self-righteous by a fellow Christian because he didn’t want to hang out at a strip club. Instead of considering them narrow-minded for their stricter faith than yours, perhaps ask them why they feel the way they do. You may end up learning something you never considered. Worst case scenario, you may end up making a friend.

 

[Poppyseed78]

They should not be passing judgment on you as ungodly or worldly. That actually sounds hypocritical to me. In your situation, I would try to stay quiet and not contradict them because it's not worth the argument. You probably won't change their minds, and they won't change yours. I would avoid such people as much as possible.

I don't think it's wrong to read books or watch movies that are not strictly Christian in theme. It depends on the subject matter, how it affects you, your thoughts, behavior, your relationship with Christ, etc. While of course some material is definitely of an inappropriate nature, I don't think it's necessary to abstain entirely from anything that is not obviously Christian-themed.

 

[Soyeong]

I'm conflicted as to what to feel or approach this situation. What are your thoughts on interacting and building meaningful relationships with fellow Christians who come across as self righteous and narrow minded? (Eg denying most entertainment and amusement - making a rule for others that this should be the way in order to deny the flesh including only reading bible, Christian novel, only listening to Christian music, only watching Christian movies and sermons). If anyone disagrees or find them difficult to approach, then they say that they are separated from the world and being persecuted - so they rejoice in their suffering. But what I see is that they are just difficult people to approach, strict and off putting - I am surrounded by many (by circumstance) and I feel something in me that is uncomfortable and almost repressed. There is no true sense of freedom and joy even though theoretically I know that God is the source of joy. Is it just me being the worldly Christian who does not like the long list of rules and whole idea about cutting everything enjoyable out from our lives because every possible little thing can possibly become an idol? I feel suffocated and just want to move away ... is it just me or are these people really annoying??

If I disagree with them then I'm accused as being unrighteous and not set apart.. because they are the strong Christians who cut off all pleasure and fleshly desires so Im the ungodly or worldly Christian (it honestly feels like a monastery). There is no other way than to shut my mouth and appear to agree if I am to stay around but that means a huge step and change in my life.

Hello,

I'll start by saying that the Christians in our lives who are difficult to love are there to teach us how to love our enemies because there is no way we can learn how to love our enemies without first learning how to love our brothers and sisters in Christ. We can only give what we have received, so if we have a problem with someone who is not reflecting love, then we should first check to see whether there is something wrong with the love that they are receiving, which should start with checking the love that they are receiving from us.

The difference between self righteousness and God's righteousness is not in a particular action, but in who gets the glory. For example, two people can perform the same action of helping the poor, where one is self-righteous because it was about making them look good in the sight of their peers, while the other was about giving glory to God's name. Are they refraining from watching Christian movies and such because it will increase their status in their community or because they want to only do things that give glory to God? So I can't fault someone for seeking to be single-minded in their devotion to God, though I can fault them for the way that they are going about doing that.

I am in full agreement that joy is an important aspect of Christianity, where David said multiple times throughout the Psalms that he delighted in obeying God's Law, where Paul said he delighted in obeying God's Law (Romans 7:22), and where God wanted His people to delight in His Sabbath (Isaiah 58:13), so we should be delighting in our obedience to God, and if that is missing, then we are missing the point. David also said that he walked about in liberty for he sought God's laws (Psalms 119:45), so obedience to God is about freedom, while it is sin in disobedience to God's Law that puts us in bondage.

Some people have a persecution complex where they want to feel like they are being persecuted for their beliefs. The problem is that these people very often have no idea what true persecution is like, where Christians have been beaten, jailed, or killed for their beliefs. For example, it can be difficult for people in the West to even relate to accounts of persecution in China, where they viewed going to prison for their faith as the equivalent of going to seminary and where they didn't fully trust someone who has not been jailed for their faith. I can recommend a book called The Insanity of God, where the author visited various countries to see how Christianity has survived and even thrived under persecution.

 

[Soyeong]

Great verse there. Some of the Gereforneerden don't clearly see about the church being under grace rather than law.

In Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus was inviting people to become his disciples and to learn from him how to think and act by word and by example, and his example was of one obedience to the Law, so he was calling people to the freedom of obedience to it. He said that it is the way where we will find rest for our souls, which is a reference to Jeremiah 6:16-19, where God's Law is the good way where we will find rest for our souls.

 

[faroukfarouk]

In Matthew 11:28-30, Jesus was inviting people to become his disciples and to learn from him how to think and act by word and by example, and his example was of one obedience to the Law, so he was calling people to the freedom of obedience to it. He said that it is the way where we will find rest for our souls, which is a reference to Jeremiah 6:16-19, where God's Law is the good way where we will find rest for our souls.

The Epistle to the Galatians indicates that the New Testament believer is under grace.

 

[Soyeong]

The Epistle to the Galatians indicates that the New Testament believer is under grace.

Indeed, so were the OT believers. Grace is not an attribute of God that He gained in the NT, but one He showed to His people throughout the OT.

 

[WannaWitness]

So, here I am, stepping in with my two-cents on this issue. I see that the last comment was from nearly a month ago, but I still feel this is a pretty recent thread, and bringing it to the surface again allows for more people to share their ideas with fellow Christians who struggle with this as well as other similar concerns. This is a good thread, and I feel I have something to say, as I have dealt with believers who seem to be exactly as the OP states (in person and online), and you just feel like they're going to judge you for every little thing you say and do when it's simply a matter of different convictions. Sadly, friendships with such people rarely work out, even when you try to be respectful of their views. That doesn't mean that lasting friendships with stricter Christians (and more lenient Christians) can't work out if the principles of Romans 14 is put into practice; that chapter covers doubtful disputations (those matters that are actually separate from what the Bible calls sin). For instance, if we know some believers who think that listening to non-Christian music is a sin (some take it a step further, ruling out even Christian music that is not in what they feel to be "traditional" styles). Now, it isn't so hard to get along with such people if they feel it's something they should personally do for themselves as they feel that's how they can best honor the Lord. However, it's a totally different thing when they start condemning other Christians who don't agree with them, using Scripture to give implication that they are lukewarm and "living in sin", not really caring about pleasing the Lord. For instance, many times they will bring out Romans 12:2, which speaks about not being conformed to the patterns of this world, then read in a lot of things that the Bible does not address as being a sin (even though for them it is), then conclude that is flat out sinful to listen to non-Christian music, no ifs, ands, or buts about it! What they fail to see is that Christians who don't feel it's wrong are following Biblical standards as they personally feel convicted, knowing that there is a lot of music with lyrics that are pure and moral according to Biblical standards, even if God or Jesus is not always mentioned, and some novelty music (silly songs) that contain nothing that goes against Biblical principles (this is where I stand, personally). The true spirit of Romans 14 is for believers to respect each other, no matter what, and any Christian who breaks a so-called friendship because we're either "too Christian" or "not Christian enough" (no matter what the issue in question is), then we have to question the friendship in the first place.

I read an article just a few days ago that stated something like "the Christian life should not be likened to a trip to the dentist". Set apart as we should be as believers, we know that there are going to be difficulties in our individual walks, but a little fun and laughter along the way (provided we hang on to our moral standards) doesn't hurt either.

In conclusion, I advise that we just be ourselves and pray for the Lord's guidance on how to handle those around us, Christian or not. We may never know; it might make a difference, even for the better. If not, then there isn't much we can do about it.

NOTE TO MODERATORS: I apologize for all of the elaboration, and this being the Christian Advice portion of CF, my desire is to be as helpful as I can be. It is never my intention to call for debate, even in the threads designed for such purposes; I only wish to give a balanced perspective from a Christian viewpoint in an effort to be beneficial as I feel the need at any given moment.

God bless!

 

[aiki]

What are your thoughts on interacting and building meaningful relationships with fellow Christians who come across as self righteous and narrow minded? (Eg denying most entertainment and amusement - making a rule for others that this should be the way in order to deny the flesh including only reading bible, Christian novel, only listening to Christian music, only watching Christian movies and sermons).

How you perceive these people and how they actually are may be two very different things - especially if their living runs very contrary to your own. "Birds of a feather flock together." If you are not separating yourself from the World as Scripture commands, or are not doing so to the degree these others that you call "self righteous" are, then they will seem condemning of you - not because they actually are, necessarily, but because their separation highlights your own lack of separation. Jesus got a lot of the "who do you think you are?" from people. They didn't much like his radical and challenging commitment to holiness and truth. The Scripture is really plain, however:

James 4:4
4 Adulterers and adulteresses! Do you not know that friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever therefore wants to be a friend of the world makes himself an enemy of God.

2 Corinthians 6:17-18
17 Therefore "Come out from among them And be separate, says the Lord. Do not touch what is unclean, And I will receive you."
18 "I will be a Father to you, And you shall be My sons and daughters, Says the Lord Almighty."

Romans 12:2
2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.

I would also remind you that all of us are narrow-minded in one respect or another. You are narrow-minded in regards to the careful lifestyle of those you've described as "self-righteous," for example. I'm very narrow-minded about peas and spiders. Can't stand either of these things! Others are narrow-minded when it comes to politics, or fashion, or art. You name it, really, and people can and are narrow-minded about it! So be careful about labeling people this way. "Narrow-minded" describes us all.

But what I see is that they are just difficult people to approach, strict and off putting - I am surrounded by many (by circumstance) and I feel something in me that is uncomfortable and almost repressed.

You can bet the Pharisees felt much the same about Jesus! He really crimped their style! But was the problem with Jesus? I think not.

There is no true sense of freedom and joy even though theoretically I know that God is the source of joy.

"Theoretically"? There's no "theoretical" about it! He IS the source of our joy - or should be. the better you know Him, and the more deeply you love Him, the greater your joy will be in walking with Him. In light of this, what does it suggest to you that He is only "theoretically" the source of your joy?

Is it just me being the worldly Christian who does not like the long list of rules and whole idea about cutting everything enjoyable out from our lives because every possible little thing can possibly become an idol? I feel suffocated and just want to move away ... is it just me or are these people really annoying??

Some people can live as you describe here because they are afraid that if they don't, God will cast them out. These folk get really legalistic and unpleasant. Others, though, are willing to cut away the world and its philosophies, and values, and pleasures because they love God and realize that being a friend of the World ruins their love-fellowship with Him. I would avoid the former people like the plague and make fast friends of the latter. It may be very difficult, though, to distinguish between them when you are in the World and of it, too. Such an association has a blinding and deafening effect upon us when it comes to God and living in His truth and light.

If I disagree with them then I'm accused as being unrighteous and not set apart.. because they are the strong Christians who cut off all pleasure and fleshly desires so Im the ungodly or worldly Christian (it honestly feels like a monastery). There is no other way than to shut my mouth and appear to agree if I am to stay around but that means a huge step and change in my life.

Just because these folk may come on strong does not mean that they are therefore totally wrong. They might not be totally right, either, but don't throw the baby out with the bathwater just because they are living in a more radical conformity to God's commands than you are. Find the light and truth in what they are doing and thinking and chuck out the nonsense. Above all look for a love for God and other people in them. If you don't see that, be very wary!

 

[JackRT]

"Neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor rulers, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord." Saint Paul, whose pronouncements are not always perfectly consistent with the spirit of the gospel, was never closer to it's core than when he wrote these words to a group of outcasts who worshipped together in catacombs in the capital of the known world. And yet the history of Christianity since then has been, to an appalling extent, a history of one group of self-identified Christians after another bringing charges, condemning, and doing their damnedest to separate other people from the love of God. Many of the early church fathers declared one another heretics, because they disagreed over abstruse doctrinal points that today can seem entirely semantic. In the Middle Ages, Crusaders slaughtered countless Moslems because they did not accept Christ as their savior. The Inquisition did the same thing to the Jews. In later centuries, Protestants did it to Catholics, and Catholics to Protestants. Today, millions of legalistic Christians claim that if you don't read the Bible the way they do, you aren't a true Christian at all. Over the centuries, those who have preached and dreamed and served and longed for a true Church of Love have found themselves challenged, disfellowshipped, tried, stoned, crucified by those whose highest loyalty is to the Church of Law.”

~~~ by Bruce Bawer in “Stealing Jesus”

 

[Jonathan Leo]

I'm conflicted as to what to feel or approach this situation. What are your thoughts on interacting and building meaningful relationships with fellow Christians who come across as self righteous and narrow minded? (Eg denying most entertainment and amusement - making a rule for others that this should be the way in order to deny the flesh including only reading bible, Christian novel, only listening to Christian music, only watching Christian movies and sermons). If anyone disagrees or find them difficult to approach, then they say that they are separated from the world and being persecuted - so they rejoice in their suffering. But what I see is that they are just difficult people to approach, strict and off putting - I am surrounded by many (by circumstance) and I feel something in me that is uncomfortable and almost repressed. There is no true sense of freedom and joy even though theoretically I know that God is the source of joy. Is it just me being the worldly Christian who does not like the long list of rules and whole idea about cutting everything enjoyable out from our lives because every possible little thing can possibly become an idol? I feel suffocated and just want to move away ... is it just me or are these people really annoying??

If I disagree with them then I'm accused as being unrighteous and not set apart.. because they are the strong Christians who cut off all pleasure and fleshly desires so Im the ungodly or worldly Christian (it honestly feels like a monastery). There is no other way than to shut my mouth and appear to agree if I am to stay around but that means a huge step and change in my life.

Any relationship be it Christian or otherwise should never be suffocating. When these people shun you because you don't do it their way, a scripture comes to mind. Do not turn away the children. It would be best if that person put a rope and weight around their neck and cast themselves into the sea. Now that's a stated from Christ himself!! Our walk with God is individual and some are more mature in Christ than others but we are never to look down on the weak, the new borns etc. This is arrogance and is certainly not from God. We the church are to be as one.

It sounds to me that these people are trying to crucify the flesh themselves. If it were Christ and the Holy Spirit doing it, there would not be any pride. There is of course pride because they are shunning you away claiming you are not like them, watching tv, entertainment, having a beer. It's people like these that put people off Jesus Christ.

Whilst we are not to be part of the world, it doesn't mean we are on a different planet, just like these extremist Christians.
Here are a few pointers about Jesus that should paint a better picture of how we are meant to live our lives.

Jesus attended weddings and festivals. He sat with unbelievers and even had some wine. Never got drunk though, so there are limits to how much we drink And Weddings and festivals are entertaining.

Jesus never judged the hopeless sinners but came to set them free. It's why He hung around with them. The Christians your referring too sound a lot like the pharmacies to which Jesus rebuked them. Living holy and looking down on others is not what Christ did.
I am going somewhere with this so bear with me,

Ok, so we have tv. A lot of rubbish on it is worldly, sex, drugs, even satanic music etc, but there is absolutely nothing wrong with watching a documentary about let's say wildlife, or aincent history. There is nothing wrong with having a beer as long as you don't go over the limit to where your spirit is controlling you rather than the Holy Spirit. There is nothing wrong with having unbelieving friends. After all, they can see Christ living within you and might even come to Christ because of you.

" I have come for the sinners, not the righteous" would a person who wasn't ill call out for a doctor"?
What benefit would it be if all the Christians in the world stopped living daily lives and stopped being interactive with the lost?
I heard something a time ago and it made sense. Always ask yourself would God approve of my actions? Example watching inappropriate content He wouldn't, watching a programme about some volcano in Italy He wouldn't mind. Having a beer or two with a none believer He wouldn't mind, getting drunk and being flirtatious He would.
You can't wrap yourself up in a bubble and crucify the flesh ourselves, if that were the case, Jesus certainly did not need to die. This is what these people are doing. We should live a life that's pleasing to God, not interacting with the lost and most important, other believers is of no benefit to Gods kingdom. You are best to leave these people off to their own devises, and start walking in the Spirit a life for God.
Not all Christians are Gods children. Just because they believe in Jesus don't mean jack s,,t.
" Even the demons believe in Jesus and shudder."
" you will know them by their fruit"
" Satan mascarades as an angel of light"
So don't be upset that you need to walk away from such people, be happy that God gave you two legs and your running away from them.
God Bless, Jonathan

 

[FutureAndAHope]

I'm conflicted as to what to feel or approach this situation. What are your thoughts on interacting and building meaningful relationships with fellow Christians who come across as self righteous and narrow minded? (Eg denying most entertainment and amusement - making a rule for others that this should be the way in order to deny the flesh including only reading bible, Christian novel, only listening to Christian music, only watching Christian movies and sermons). If anyone disagrees or find them difficult to approach, then they say that they are separated from the world and being persecuted - so they rejoice in their suffering. But what I see is that they are just difficult people to approach, strict and off putting - I am surrounded by many (by circumstance) and I feel something in me that is uncomfortable and almost repressed. There is no true sense of freedom and joy even though theoretically I know that God is the source of joy. Is it just me being the worldly Christian who does not like the long list of rules and whole idea about cutting everything enjoyable out from our lives because every possible little thing can possibly become an idol? I feel suffocated and just want to move away ... is it just me or are these people really annoying??

If I disagree with them then I'm accused as being unrighteous and not set apart.. because they are the strong Christians who cut off all pleasure and fleshly desires so Im the ungodly or worldly Christian (it honestly feels like a monastery). There is no other way than to shut my mouth and appear to agree if I am to stay around but that means a huge step and change in my life.

The bible says:

Ecc 7:16-17 So don't destroy yourself by being too good or acting too smart! Don't die before your time by being too evil or acting like a fool.

There is a balance in all things. At times in my life I have been the deny all worldly things kind of person, but over time have grown to enjoy the natural as well. Yet our minds should be consistently pulled towards the heavenly. Whether it is in thanks for our natural life, or in consecration to the spiritual call. Every one is on a journey, according to Ecclesiastes there is a balance between righteousness, and the natural, it goes on to say that the person who genuinely follows God will find that balance.

Ecc 7:18 It is good to take this in your hand and not to keep your hand from that; he who has the fear of God will be free of the two.

 

[Soyeong]

The Epistle to the Galatians indicates that the New Testament believer is under grace.

I completely agree and I did not say anything to indicate otherwise. Grace is not an attribute of God that He suddenly developed in the NT, but rather it is an attribute that he show to people throughout the OT as well, such as with Noah, who found grace in the eyes of God (Genesis 6:8-9) and with David, who he asked God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His Law (Psalms 119:29). There are 1,050 command in the NT, so the NT believer is also under Law.

According to Titus 2:11-14, our salvation involves being trained by grace to do things that are in accordance with what the Law was given to instruct. According to Romans 1:5, we have received grace in order to bring about the obedience that faith requires. According to John 1:16-17, grace was added upon grace, so the grace of Christ was added upon the grace of the Law. According to Jude 1:4, the ungodly pervert God's grace into a license for immorality. According to Strongs, "grace" is defined as "he divine influence upon the heart, and its reflection in the life" and when God's will is reflected in our lives it straightforwardly takes the form of obedience to His commands, so God shows His grace to us by teaching us how to walk in His ways.