Different state past

[dad]

what about all the heat from these rapid decays all over the place? Wouldn't it essentially cook the earth?
...

If there was no decay how could there be rapid decay?

 

[TeddyReceptus]

If there was no decay how could there be rapid decay?

First "decay" isn't a bad thing. It sounds "bad" like decaying flesh. But in nuclear science it's actually a pretty interesting thing. Not "bad". Although you don't want to mess around with it since it can hurt humans and animals. And since the radioactive elements didn't "sin" they didn't need to "Fall from Grace" and start to "die".

No, this was in answer to the question about how there could be all these decay traces which indicate that these radioactive elements were deaying for millions or billions of years.

In the PAST STATE there still has to be some reason for there to be evidence of PAST decays that are too old to fit into the last couple thousand years (since the Split). So when you find that there's more radiogenic Pb-206 than you expect (some is primordial and some is radiogenic) you have to explain where the excess came from.

I'm just trying to help out and show that radioactive change could occur without having to account for anything like that nasty concept of "time", "energy" or even "heat"!

But it also keeps God from looking like he planted evidence of long ago radioactive "decay" without there actually literally being radioactive decay!

This is Win-Win stuff, here Dad! I'm helping you. It appears that you don't know much about the whole "science" thing so I'm hoping to provide answers for the questions the nasty "science slaves" ask.

This keeps your mind pure and unsullied by actual "technical knowledge" and allows you to keep on hawking this wonderful "Different State Past" theology!

(You're welcome!)

 

[Michael]

If there was no decay how could there be rapid decay?

Not that I agree with you mind you, but ya know....

From a strategy standpoint, you could probably make a strong case that the "big bang" simply began sooner, and the inflation phase (different state) lasted longer, and caused rapid decay along the way. That would be an entertaining discussion to say the least.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7646085/

 

[Farinata]

No. 2012 years ago, our laws still applied.

You misunderstand why I said "empty answer". You didn't answer the question:

I'd like to see a cogent (and somewhat detailed) argument put forth, if anyone can, for why one should believe in God and the absolute truth of the Bible. Keep in mind that I will reasoning in a manner consistent with the different state past standard [of proof].

 

[rambot]

If I think the flood and Eden were not in this state, how could offering the differences in nature we see there be offering evidence of miraculous works within a SAME state past? Like the tribulation and millennium and heaven, we can denote clear differences.

Because you aren't providing evidence for systemic changes across the board, throughout the universe. You simply are choosing bits of the bible that were miraculous events in the same state.

Your evidence does NOT point to a different state, just that miraculous events happenned. That's all. Unless you care to explain with some thought how your extrapolations DO indicate different state past as opposed to miraculous incidents.

 

[AV1611VET]

Because you aren't providing evidence for systemic changes across the board, throughout the universe. You simply are choosing bits of the bible that were miraculous events in the same state.

Your evidence does NOT point to a different state, just that miraculous events happenned. That's all. Unless you care to explain with some thought how your extrapolations DO indicate different state past as opposed to miraculous incidents.

I think dad will disagree with me on this one, because I believe dad's version of DSP is different than mine; but for the record, if you lived in the DSP, you would not die.

Technically, we're living in a different-state present, and that's why it's hard to comprehend a different-state past without having it explained.

By way of a crude example, most kids nowadays never experienced living in a time when there were no cell phones, Internet, or Chuck Norris.

Leave it to Beaver -- to them -- would be an historical docudrama.

 

[CaliforniaSun]

I think dad will disagree with me on this one, because I believe dad's version of DSP is different than mine; but for the record, if you lived in the DSP, you would not die.

Technically, we're living in a different-state present, and that's why it's hard to comprehend a different-state past without having it explained.

By way of a crude example, most kids nowadays never experienced living in a time when there were no cell phones, Internet, or Chuck Norris.

Leave it to Beaver -- to them -- would be an historical docudrama.

Your analogy falls on it's face - we have historical evidence to support a claim of a TV show called "Leave It To Beaver," however, not one single shred of evidence to support a claim of a "different state past" (yours or dads).

 

[AV1611VET]

Your analogy falls on it's face - we have historical evidence to support a claim of a TV show called "Leave It To Beaver," however, not one single shred of evidence to support a claim of a "different state past" (yours or dads).

-- I was using Leave It To Beaver as an example of someone not experiencing the intricacies of a past generation; and would therefore only have access to it by way of software (i.e. books, magazines, pictures, television programs, etc.).

Ask a child today what it was like living back in Beaver's time, and he doesn't have a clue; and by the same token, ask someone what it was like living in Adam's time, and he doesn't have a clue.

I'm actually agreeing with you that we can't fully understand the past like those who lived it could.

Yes, you can demand evidence of Beaver's time and be presented with software; but you can also demand evidence of Adam's time and be presented with Software.

You can reject the validity of either software, but that won't change history.

 

[CabVet]

Ask a child today what it was like living back in Beaver's time, and he doesn't have a clue; and by the same token, ask someone what it was like living in Adam's time, and he doesn't have a clue.

Ask a historian or a palaeontologist and they both will have clues.

 

[AV1611VET]

Ask a historian or a palaeontologist and they both will have clues.

Ya -- straight from their programmed computers.

 

[CabVet]

Ya -- straight from their programmed computers.

Straight from the data they gathered.

 

[TeddyReceptus]

I think dad will disagree with me on this one, because I believe dad's version of DSP is different than mine; but for the record, if you lived in the DSP, you would not die.

Yeah I think you and Dad differ. I think, if I'm recalling correctly, that Dad puts the split after the Flood.

Yeh, here it is:

Fair enough. To be clear, I suspect that the nature change happened over a century after the flood. That means the flood was still former state.

So that means that people did die in Dad's Former State (Gen 5:5 for example).

Now this is a pretty big "difference" which might make people of lesser faith think you guys are just "making it up as you go along or as fits your need", but I'm sure there's a way to fix this glaring disconnect.

Needless to say the best thing we DO know is that science today couldn't find truth with both hands and a flashlight. So the Bible and God's followers who interpret it (no matter how jarringly different) are miles ahead anyway!

 

[TeddyReceptus]

Ask a historian or a palaeontologist and they both will have clues.

That's why historians and ESPECIALLY paleontologists should watch more "Leave it to Beaver".

It can't hurt, right?

 

[rambot]

I think dad will disagree with me on this one, because I believe dad's version of DSP is different than mine; but for the record, if you lived in the DSP, you would not die.

I'm not sure what that has to do with the veracity of the evidence in indicating DSP as opposed to miraculous events in a same state past.

Technically, we're living in a different-state present, and that's why it's hard to comprehend a different-state past without having it explained.

But frankly, We haven't experienced being on the surface of Venus but you could very well get a basic comprehension of what life would be like if you did some evidence based reading. The arguement that "It is novel, therefore, incomprehensible and/or inexplanable" does not lead to a strong argument of support for your position.

So AV, what is your reasoning behind the lack of physical evidence of a DSP? Or perhaps I should ask, what do you consider to be natural evidence of DSP and why do you think it so?

 

[AV1611VET]

So AV, what is your reasoning behind the lack of physical evidence of a DSP?

Does everything have to leave evidence behind?

The universe operated within the scope of a DSP for about one year, then the Fall occurred and God cursed it (the universe); from that point on, the evidence that God said would emerge (e.g. thorns & thistles) emerged.

What you're asking is not producible.

Or perhaps I should ask, what do you consider to be natural evidence of DSP and why do you think it so?

No one dying.

 

[dad]

Yeah I think you and Dad differ. I think, if I'm recalling correctly, that Dad puts the split after the Flood.

Yeh, here it is:



So that means that people did die in Dad's Former State (Gen 5:5 for example).

Now this is a pretty big "difference" which might make people of lesser faith think you guys are just "making it up as you go along or as fits your need", but I'm sure there's a way to fix this glaring disconnect.

Needless to say the best thing we DO know is that science today couldn't find truth with both hands and a flashlight. So the Bible and God's followers who interpret it (no matter how jarringly different) are miles ahead anyway!

Yes. They did die. However, before the fall they did not. To explain the flood and all the evolving that went on, and continental separation, and fast plant growth and the long life spans, and the world of water that fell and etc etc...a different state is needed. The attempts at using 'flood geology' have failed.

 

[dad]

Not that I agree with you mind you, but ya know....

From a strategy standpoint, you could probably make a strong case that the "big bang" simply began sooner, and the inflation phase (different state) lasted longer, and caused rapid decay along the way. That would be an entertaining discussion to say the least.

http://www.christianforums.com/t7646085/

The big bang is totally false. It has no chance of a later or earlier start. D.O.A.

 

[dad]

First "decay" isn't a bad thing. It sounds "bad" like decaying flesh. But in nuclear science it's actually a pretty interesting thing. Not "bad". Although you don't want to mess around with it since it can hurt humans and animals. And since the radioactive elements didn't "sin" they didn't need to "Fall from Grace" and start to "die".

No, this was in answer to the question about how there could be all these decay traces which indicate that these radioactive elements were deaying for millions or billions of years.

In the PAST STATE there still has to be some reason for there to be evidence of PAST decays that are too old to fit into the last couple thousand years (since the Split).

No. There is no evidence of past decays.
There is stuff that was here that is now in a state of decay, from what I can tell.

So when you find that there's more radiogenic Pb-206 than you expect (some is primordial and some is radiogenic) you have to explain where the excess came from.

No. If it is here, then it was here at the onset of this state! IF IT IS NOT HERE, IT WASN'T!

I'm just trying to help out and show that radioactive change could occur without having to account for anything like that nasty concept of "time", "energy" or even "heat"!

No need. We do not need to use decay as the origin of any material we see, that took longer than 4400 years to decay. Simple.

But it also keeps God from looking like he planted evidence of long ago radioactive "decay" without there actually literally being radioactive decay!

No. Stop coloring what you see.

This is Win-Win stuff, here Dad! I'm helping you. It appears that you don't know much about the whole "science" thing so I'm hoping to provide answers for the questions the nasty "science slaves" ask.

I been there done that. Nothing new here.

This keeps your mind pure and unsullied by actual "technical knowledge" and allows you to keep on hawking this wonderful "Different State Past" theology!

No knowledge is involved in the sulllying stuff of so called science.

 

[dad]

You misunderstand why I said "empty answer". You didn't answer the question:

You missed it.

 

[dad]

Because you aren't providing evidence for systemic changes across the board, throughout the universe. You simply are choosing bits of the bible that were miraculous events in the same state.

Science only deals in this state. No evidence therefore that it can deal in and with is beyond it!

Your evidence does NOT point to a different state, just that miraculous events happenned. That's all. Unless you care to explain with some thought how your extrapolations DO indicate different state past as opposed to miraculous incidents.

False. The nature of the past was clearly different, not tweaked.