Different state past

[dad]

You are not making any sense at all.

Point you missed was that the future and past described in the bible does not fit with today.

Except that there's no evidence the past was ever in a different state, and no evidence that the future will be in a different state either.

No evidence either way directly in science. There is history and the bible. In my back pocket.

Except that nothing that you are saying is agreeing with any facts at all.

Name a fact I disagree with??

Why don't you do your own homework. I'm not going to waste my own time trying to disprove your nonsense.

Too lazy to be led to water? Fine. You don't want it bad enough.

It is supported very well.

In your dreams. We know.

In Uranium/lead radio dating, Uranium doesn't decay directly to lead. It decays through various other elements before reaching lead. In fact, each sample provides us with two clocks, because there are two different isotopes of uranium which decay into two different isotopes of lead. 238U with daughter nuclides undergo eight total alpha and six beta decays whereas 235U with daughters only experience seven alpha and four beta decays. In essence, the parent material decays into the daughter material, which then decays into a granddaughter material, then a great grand daughter material and so on.

Ah...OK. So imagine a multi step process in the past. Each step when in this state becomes a decay step! Simple. After all the former state had processes too. (just not decay processes resulting from our laws)

Therefore you have no possible proof for you claims and fail.

How sweet it is.

Got any tough ones?

 

[verysincere]

I'm amazed the mods haven't shut down this thread. It is going nowhere and stubbornly mind-numbing in its misunderstanding of both the Bible and science.

 

[AV1611VET]

I'm amazed the mods haven't shut down this thread. It is going nowhere and stubbornly mind-numbing in its misunderstanding of both the Bible and science.

Why?

Have you been reporting posts here right and left? or do you expect the mods to have ESP?

 

[TeddyReceptus]

Point you missed was that the future and past described in the bible does not fit with today.

Clearly!

Ah...OK. So imagine a multi step process in the past. Each step when in this state becomes a decay step! Simple. After all the former state had processes too. (just not decay processes resulting from our laws)

Therefore you have no possible proof for you claims and fail.

How sweet it is.

Got any tough ones?

Yeah! That's the stuff! Oh, wait, I've got one! How do we know that the former state had "processes"? Personally I think there were no processes in the former state. Things just "happened" when they needed to happen.

Snakes could have legs and then not have legs. God just said "I want this to happen" and it happened. That was the only process you needed to know! And it worked. Every single time. Well, except the not eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good 'n evil. Oh yeah, and the building the Tower of Babel. Oh and the rampant sin that made God repent of putting man on the earth. But God took care of those things tout de suite. Yessir.

 

[Davian]

I'm amazed the mods haven't shut down this thread. It is going nowhere and stubbornly mind-numbing in its misunderstanding of both the Bible and science.

Is either in violation of the rules?

 

[Farinata]

The question easily becomes, why believe in the Bible? Why believe in God? If one is intellectually honest, either conclusion is impossible under the different state past standard of proof. If one is skeptical enough to throw out radiometric decay, the same exacting eye deconstructs any reason for believing in either God or the Bible. I'd like to see a cogent (and somewhat detailed) argument put forth, if anyone can, for why one should believe in God and the absolute truth of the Bible. Keep in mind that I will reasoning in a manner consistent with the different state past standard.

 

[TeddyReceptus]

The question easily becomes, why believe in the Bible?

One question at a time, please! One believes in the Bible because it is the Bible. Everything else follows from that.

Why believe in God?

Who do you think wrote the Bible (or inspired it to be written)?

FTW.

If one is intellectually honest, either conclusion is impossible under the different state past standard of proof.

Clearly not. Otherwise how could Dad say what he says over and over again?

If one is skeptical enough to throw out radiometric decay, the same exacting eye deconstructs any reason for believing in either God or the Bible.

But Dad is not that same exacting eye. Dad sees the problem that science has and hopes to solve it by telling them they cannot know the past. He can. So it's win-win for everyone all around

I'd like to see a cogent (and somewhat detailed) argument put forth, if anyone can, for why one should believe in God and the absolute truth of the Bible.

Have you never seen a bird fly? That's a miracle. How about a sunrise? That too is miraculous.

Don't take my word for it, or even Dad's, take the word of the INSANE CLOWN POSSE:

"If magic is all we ever known then it’s easy to miss what really goes on, but I have seen miracles in every way and it have seen miracles every day, Oceans spanning beyond my site, and a million stars way above em at night, we don’t have to be high to look in the sky, and know that is a miracle open wide. Look at the mountains trees the seven seas, and everything chillin under water please,"

...
​

(Miracles, Insane Clown Posse)

I think that about sums it up.

Keep in mind that I will reasoning in a manner consistent with the different state past standard.

I'm afraid you can't do that. Remember that only Dad can tell you what was or wasn't the same in the past. When you try to do it you'll probably just mess it all up and get it wrong.

 

[Tiberius]

Point you missed was that the future and past described in the bible does not fit with today.

So what? neither does Star Trek. After all, Star Trek described a war that covered a quarter of the globe in the mid 90s and had a group of genetically engineered humans seize power. That never happened.

You see, your problem is that you interpret the Bible literally, and have closed your mind to any evidence otherwise.

No evidence either way directly in science. There is history and the bible. In my back pocket.

There is a ton of evidence from science. How many times do I have to mention radio dating?

Your history/Bible consists of a bunch of two thousand year old stories and other myths and legends.

Name a fact I disagree with??

The fact that radio dating is evidence for a same state past.

Too lazy to be led to water? Fine. You don't want it bad enough.

On the contrary. I have plenty to drink right here.

In your dreams. We know.

No, in reality. If you'd actually STUDY this stuff and learn how it works, you'd understand. But you have no interest in getting out of your hidey hole.

Ah...OK. So imagine a multi step process in the past. Each step when in this state becomes a decay step! Simple. After all the former state had processes too. (just not decay processes resulting from our laws)

You think this vague claim means anything?

Therefore you have no possible proof for you claims and fail.

This proves nothing.

How sweet it is.

You have a wonderful gift for comedy. You play the straight man very well.

Got any tough ones?

Considering that you haven't actually addressed any of what I said, merely tried to handwave it away, I'd say what I have given you is tough enough.

 

[AV1611VET]

You see, your problem is that you interpret the Bible literally, and have closed your mind to any evidence otherwise.

Sounds like my kind of guy!

 

[dad]

I'm amazed the mods haven't shut down this thread. It is going nowhere and stubbornly mind-numbing in its misunderstanding of both the Bible and science.

Too bad some have given you that impression. I am here to help folks understand science and the bible.

 

[dad]

Isn't there a rule somewhere that Poes have to reveal themselves when accurately identified?

The idea of a Poe if I have it right, is that they lie and deceive, and refuse to tell the truth of their position. I usually try to deal with posters in such a way that such a cad would be quickly exposed. Thanks for the concern.

 

[dad]

Clearly!



Yeah! That's the stuff! Oh, wait, I've got one! How do we know that the former state had "processes"?

Easy, the bible says so!

Ge 4:3 - And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD.

Snakes could have legs and then not have legs. God just said "I want this to happen" and it happened. That was the only process you needed to know! And it worked. Every single time. Well, except the not eating of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good 'n evil. Oh yeah, and the building the Tower of Babel. Oh and the rampant sin that made God repent of putting man on the earth. But God took care of those things tout de suite. Yessir.

I agree that the evolution of the serpent into a dust eater was fast. I also think that God is in control. If Adam had of chosen the right road, He could have taught man all we needed to know over time, to be the eternal companions of God we were meant to be. The road they did chose will also lead to that end, for men that accept His salvation.

 

[dad]

The question easily becomes, why believe in the Bible? Why believe in God? If one is intellectually honest, either conclusion is impossible under the different state past standard of proof. If one is skeptical enough to throw out radiometric decay, the same exacting eye deconstructs any reason for believing in either God or the Bible. I'd like to see a cogent (and somewhat detailed) argument put forth, if anyone can, for why one should believe in God and the absolute truth of the Bible. Keep in mind that I will reasoning in a manner consistent with the different state past standard.

Because the savior came in this state.

 

[dad]

So what? neither does Star Trek. After all, Star Trek described a war that covered a quarter of the globe in the mid 90s and had a group of genetically engineered humans seize power. That never happened.

Will you admit then that the future and past states of the bible are not our present state?

You see, your problem is that you interpret the Bible literally, and have closed your mind to any evidence otherwise.

I accept it as true, yes. And never a day goes by that I don't kick myself for not believing it more.

There is a ton of evidence from science. How many times do I have to mention radio dating?

Never. It is a defeated concept. Decay happens now...yes. Not then.

Your history/Bible consists of a bunch of two thousand year old stories and other myths and legends.

False. Some are older.

The fact that radio dating is evidence for a same state past.

No. Nothing remotely similar.

No, in reality. If you'd actually STUDY this stuff and learn how it works, you'd understand. But you have no interest in getting out of your hidey hole.

To study should involve studying truth.

You think this vague claim means anything?

Yes. It means that when our state came to exist it included stuff that was doing stuff in the former state.

You have a wonderful gift for comedy. You play the straight man very well.

Thanks. That might be a part time retirement job.

 

[Tiberius]

Will you admit then that the future and past states of the bible are not our present state?

Oh yes, quite happily. There is a great deal of the Bible which is impossible according to modern science.

I accept it as true, yes. And never a day goes by that I don't kick myself for not believing it more.

Then you admit that you are close minded? That you refuse to even look at evidence which disagrees with what you are saying?

Never. It is a defeated concept. Decay happens now...yes. Not then.

Of course, you might have a point IF you could actually get around to explaining how rocks can have millions of years of decay in them when they've only been decaying for a few centuries.

False. Some are older.

The point still stands. Doesn't matter exactly how old they are. You still think ancient myths and legends tell you more about reality than actual study of that reality.

No. Nothing remotely similar.

Radio decay IS evidnece for a same state past. Your ignorance of it doesn't alter that fact.

To study should involve studying truth.

How does one determine truth?

Yes. It means that when our state came to exist it included stuff that was doing stuff in the former state.

If the present state came to exist while there was still past state stuff going on, how could it have been the present state? Or did the laws of physics and QM change for some atoms but not for other?

Thanks. That might be a part time retirement job.

If you can be so turned around that you take an insult as a compliment, then I'm not at all surprised that you cling to this different state past stuff.

 

[Farinata]

Because the savior came in this state.

I don't know if you're a poe or not but that's a hilariously empty answer.

 

[rambot]

dad,
You keep talking about a different state past, but in fact, you are only offering evidence of miraculous works within a SAME state past.

I'm curious how you use biblical (or physical) evidence to differentiate.

 

[TeddyReceptus]

Of course, you might have a point IF you could actually get around to explaining how rocks can have millions of years of decay in them when they've only been decaying for a few centuries.

Oh that's easy! Let me help Dad out here a bit:

In the DIFFERENT STATE PAST radioactive decay happened real fast for what we see as "long lived" isotopes today (in our PRESENT STATE). So now you are asking the (silly) question: what about all the heat from these rapid decays all over the place? Wouldn't it essentially cook the earth?

Well, thankfully in the DIFFERENT STATE PAST "heat" as we know it didn't work that way. It wasn't "hot" ("hotness" is a PRESENT STATE concept).

BUT! You are now asking the equally (silly) question: "What about all the ENERGY from those rapid decays all over the place? Well, of course in the DIFFERENT STATE PAST "energy" really wasn't a "thing".

The idea that energy couldn't just "disappear" without changing form into mass or dissipating through some sort of increase in entropy just wasn't necessary! Energy just popped into and out of existence in order to keep things from "heating up" or "cooling down".

So now you're asking the most silly question of all: "Without entropy how did one know which way 'time' was moving?"

The short answer is: no one did. That's what paradise is. It lasts forever but not such as you get "bored" (because being "bored" in the presence of God would be sinful and disrespectful), so God made "eternity" feel like no time was passing at all.

So now you're asking even more silly questions: "Well if time wasn't passing, how did man achieve a 'fall from grace'? How could man have been doing good one day and the next not doing good if there was no time passing??? And what about all that stuff in Genesis about 'on the first day...on the second day...etc.?"

Well that's just silly! You are clearly overthinking this!

Why can't you be happy that God just DID IT? Why do you ask so many questions?

You know how your teacher said: "There's no such thing as a silly question?" Well they were wrong. There is. And all of these are silly.

So stop asking them.

Think about it.

 

[dad]

I don't know if you're a poe or not but that's a hilariously empty answer.

No. 2012 years ago, our laws still applied.

 

[dad]

dad,
You keep talking about a different state past, but in fact, you are only offering evidence of miraculous works within a SAME state past.

I'm curious how you use biblical (or physical) evidence to differentiate.

If I think the flood and Eden were not in this state, how could offering the differences in nature we see there be offering evidence of miraculous works within a SAME state past? Like the tribulation and millennium and heaven, we can denote clear differences.