Differences

[simplegifts]

What should be minimum age for marriage and why? What should be actual age? 10? 15? 18? 21 and a half? 25? What should it be?

The God of the Bile expresses it thus:

7 I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown, yet you were stark naked.

8 “‘Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your naked body. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign Lord, and you became mine.

9 “‘I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. 10 I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put sandals of fine leather on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments.

After puberty.

WHY?

http://www.who.int/features/factfiles/obstetric_fistula/en/

Obstetric Fistulas - a result of prolonged labor - because passage way too small, child is underage and not finished with puberty, so not fully developed.

Child marriages? - All because Mohammad promoted his sexual perversion.

 

[benmaarof]

The God of the Bile expresses it thus:

7 I made you grow like a plant of the field. You grew and developed and entered puberty. Your breasts had formed and your hair had grown, yet you were stark naked.

8 “‘Later I passed by, and when I looked at you and saw that you were old enough for love, I spread the corner of my garment over you and covered your naked body. I gave you my solemn oath and entered into a covenant with you, declares the Sovereign Lord, and you became mine.

9 “‘I bathed you with water and washed the blood from you and put ointments on you. 10 I clothed you with an embroidered dress and put sandals of fine leather on you. I dressed you in fine linen and covered you with costly garments.

After puberty.

WHY?

WHO | 10 facts on obstetric fistula

Obstetric Fistulas - a result of prolonged labor - because passage way too small, child is underage and not finished with puberty, so not fully developed.

Child marriages? - All because Mohammad promoted his sexual perversion.

When is the puberty? When will the passageway not be too small? At what age a child not a child and can marry?

Please don't deny the fact that in Islam women and girls cannot be forcibly married. We have it in black and white from our scriptures.

 

[simplegifts]

When is the puberty? When will the passageway not be too small? At what age a child not a child and can marry?

Please don't deny the fact that in Islam women and girls cannot be forcibly married. We have it in black and white from our scriptures.

It is different for every child. After puberty.

Don't even go there your women are tilth!! Property!! What innocent child in their right mind who actually knew what happens in a marriage would agree to it?

Here is the very sad truth. The following verse is about divorce so not only is the child sexually abused [sex with a child is abuse] the poor thing is being divorced!!:
65:4 Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir - The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses

The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses Print E-mail
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;

Sorry but Islam is a SICK religion, no not religion - ideology!!

 

[ViaCrucis]

Truthfully the only thing the Catholic Church did was recognize Scripture that had already been recognized centuries earlier.

More specifically Jesus mentions the Books of the Old Testament that he considers Scripture - He read from them, taught from them, referenced them in some way.

If you were to read New Testament Apocrypha or spurious gospels you would see that they are written too late after the fact, we have no clue who the author is, not mentioned by the students of the Apostles like Polycarp and Papias, talk about mythological creatures, etc.

You won't find Esther referenced by Jesus or by anyone in the New Testament, same with the Song of Songs.

So that isn't sufficient enough criteria.

What became the Christian Old Testament was, more-or-less an acceptance of the Seputagint, with the occasional quibble over this or that. For example St. Athanasius in one of his paschal letters enumerates what he considers the books of the Old Testament, it looks a lot like the Protestant Old Testament--but regards Esther as spurious, but includes Baruch.

St. Jerome quibbled over the Deuterocanonicals to some extent, but didn't press the issue too hard.

The Reformation pressed the issue again, leading to Luther delegating the Deuterocanonicals to their own section in his translation between the Old and New Testaments; other Protestant translators continued that tradition, including the original Authorized Version of King James (where they remained until the the 19th century).

The truth is the Deuterocanonical Question is hardly a solved one, while the Roman Catholic Church officially came down on the issue at the Council of Trent, and Protestant confessions came down as well (such as the original 39 Articles by the Church of England during its more Reformed stage of life); it is hardly an ecumenically solved question.

It's worth noting that there is no official Lutheran position. Lutherans typically follow the Protestant tradition set in motion by Luther, but our Confessions don't actually address the issue one way or the other.

-CryptoLutheran

 

[benmaarof]

It is different for every child. After puberty.

Don't even go there your women are tilth!! Property!! What innocent child in their right mind who actually knew what happens in a marriage would agree to it?

Here is the very sad truth. The following verse is about divorce so not only is the child sexually abused [sex with a child is abuse] the poor thing is being divorced!!:
65:4 Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir - The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses

The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses Print E-mail
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;

Sorry but Islam is a SICK religion, no not religion - ideology!!

Islam gave women the right to choose their own marriage partner, gave them the right be divorced from a loveless, neglectful or abusive marriage and the right to receive alimony, something denied to Christian women, until they copied it from Islam.

Quran, 4:19 O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good.

Quran 4:128 If a wife fears cruelty or desertion on her husband's part, there is no blame on them if they arrange an amicable settlement between themselves; and such settlement is best; even though men's souls are swayed by greed. But if ye do good and practise self-restraint, God is well-acquainted with all that ye do.

Narrated Abdullah ibn Umar: "The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: Consult women about (the marriage of) their daughters. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2090)"

Narrated Abdullah ibn Abbas: "A virgin came to the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) and mentioned that her father had married her against her will, so the Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) allowed her to exercise her choice. (Translation of Sunan Abu-Dawud, Marriage (Kitab Al-Nikah), Book 11, Number 2091)"

Hadith Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 67: Narrated Abu Huraira:
The Prophet said, "A matron should not be given in marriage except after consulting her; and a virgin should not be given in marriage except after her permission." The people asked, "O God's Apostle! How can we know her permission?" He said, "Her silence (indicates her permission)."

Hadith Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 68:
Narrated 'Aisha:
I said, "O God's Apostle! A virgin feels shy." He said, "Her consent is (expressed by) her silence."

Hadith Bukhari Volume 7, Book 62, Number 69:
Narrated Khansa bint Khidam Al-Ansariya:
that her father gave her in marriage when she was a matron and she disliked that marriage. So she went to God's Apostle and he declared that marriage invalid.


Quran 2.241 For divorced women Maintenance (should be provided) on a reasonable (scale). This is a duty on the righteous.

You cannot escape the fact that Islam gave full rights for women and girls to choose their own marriage partner. Forced marriages go against Islam. We have the black and white to prove it.

 

[benmaarof]

It is different for every child. After puberty.

Don't even go there your women are tilth!! Property!! What innocent child in their right mind who actually knew what happens in a marriage would agree to it?

Here is the very sad truth. The following verse is about divorce so not only is the child sexually abused [sex with a child is abuse] the poor thing is being divorced!!:
65:4 Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir - The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses

The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses Print E-mail
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;

Sorry but Islam is a SICK religion, no not religion - ideology!!

Gender Inequality in Islam
Before Marriage

To get married, a Muslim man must give dowry to his future wife. The bride-to-be does not have to give him anything.

Quran 4:4 And give the women (on marriage) their dower as a free gift; but if they, of their own good pleasure, remit any part of it to you, Take it and enjoy it with right good cheer.

During Marriage

During marriage, the husband must support his family. If he is able but doesn't give any money for the needs of the family, he sins. It's different on the part of the wife. She does not have to give any financial support. Even if she can but does not, she won't sin.

Quran 4:34 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because God has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what God would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For God is Most High, great (above you all).

Quran, 4:19 O ye who believe! Ye are forbidden to inherit women against their will. Nor should ye treat them with harshness, that ye may take away part of the dower ye have given them, except where they have been guilty of open lewdness; on the contrary live with them on a footing of kindness and equity. If ye take a dislike to them it may be that ye dislike a thing, and God brings about through it a great deal of good.

Quran, 4:20-21 But if ye decide to take one wife in place of another, Even if ye had given the latter a whole treasure from dower, take not the least bit of it back; Would ye take it by slander and a manifest wrong? And how could ye take it when ye have gone in unto each other, and they have taken from you a solemn covenant?

After Marriage

If they are divorced, the ex-husband would STILL have to support his ex-wife. It's still would be basically the same as they were married, except, no sex. The ex-wife does not have to give him anything. The ex-husband that does not pay alimony is going against the command of God.

Quran 2.241 For divorced women Maintenance (should be provided) on a reasonable (scale). This is a duty on the righteous.
.
.

 

[benmaarof]

It is different for every child. After puberty.

Don't even go there your women are tilth!! Property!! What innocent child in their right mind who actually knew what happens in a marriage would agree to it?

Here is the very sad truth. The following verse is about divorce so not only is the child sexually abused [sex with a child is abuse] the poor thing is being divorced!!:
65:4 Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy.

Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir - The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses

The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses Print E-mail
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;

Sorry but Islam is a SICK religion, no not religion - ideology!!

Quran 65:4 Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy

Quran 2:228 Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise

The line "...and for those who have no courses... " are women who are actually pregnant after they are divorced or their husband is dead. When they have a child in the womb, they don't menstruate. But they still have to observe the 3 month period of Iddah.

 

[simplegifts]

Quran 65:4 Such of your women as have passed the age of monthly courses, for them the prescribed period, if ye have any doubts, is three months, and for those who have no courses (it is the same): for those who carry (life within their wombs), their period is until they deliver their burdens: and for those who fear Allah, He will make their path easy

Quran 2:228 Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what Allah Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise

The line "...and for those who have no courses... " are women who are actually pregnant after they are divorced or their husband is dead. When they have a child in the womb, they don't menstruate. But they still have to observe the 3 month period of Iddah.

No read it again from a famous and trusted scholar:

Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir - The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses

The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses Print E-mail
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;

I'll repeat that for you:
The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation.

Haven't you ever wondered about the prevalence pf underage girls being married off in Muslim majority countries and why clerics put up such a fuss when people try to raise the age.

How long have you been a Muslim?

 

[benmaarof]

No read it again from a famous and trusted scholar:

Quran Tafsir Ibn Kathir - The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses

The `Iddah of Those in Menopause and Those Who do not have Menses Print E-mail
Allah the Exalted clarifies the waiting period of the woman in menopause. And that is the one whose menstruation has stopped due to her older age. Her `Iddah is three months instead of the three monthly cycles for those who menstruate, which is based upon the Ayah in (Surat) Al-Baqarah. ﴿see 2:228﴾ The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation. Their `Iddah is three months like those in menopause. This is the meaning of His saying;

I'll repeat that for you:
The same for the young, who have not reached the years of menstruation.

Haven't you ever wondered about the prevalence pf underage girls being married off in Muslim majority countries and why clerics put up such a fuss when people try to raise the age.

How long have you been a Muslim?

‏22:5 ياايها الناس ان كنتم في ريب من البعث فانا خلقناكم من تراب ثم من نطفة ثم من علقة ثم من مضغة مخلقة وغير مخلقة لنبين لكم ونقر في الارحام مانشاء الى اجل مسمى ثم نخرجكم طفلا ثم لتبلغوا اشدكم ومنكم من يتوفى ومنكم من يرد الى ارذل العمر لكيلا يعلم من بعد علم شيئا وترى الارض هامدة فاذا انزلنا عليهاالماء اهتزت وربت وانبتت من كل زوج بهيج
[022:005] O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).



‏40:67 هو الذي خلقكم من تراب ثم من نطفة ثم من علقة ثم يخرجكم طفلا ثم لتبلغوا اشدكم ثم لتكونوا شيوخا ومنكم من يتوفى من قبل ولتبلغوا اجلا مسمى ولعلكم تعقلون
[040:067] It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom.

‏4:25 ومن لم يستطع منكم طولا ان ينكح المحصنات المؤمنات فمن ماملكت ايمانكم من فتياتكم المؤمنات والله اعلم بايمانكم بعضكم من بعض فانكحوهن باذن اهلهن واتوهن اجورهن بالمعروف محصنات غير مسافحات ولامتخذات اخدان فاذا احصن فان اتين بفاحشة فعليهن نصف ماعلى المحصنات من العذاب ذلك لمن خشى العنت منكم وان تصبروا خير لكم والله غفور رحيم
A girl starts out being a child طفلة. This is further proven in Noble Verses 22:5 and 40:67 above (طفلا child). Then she becomes a fataat فتاة , which is what فتياتكم (your young ladies) is derived from in Noble Verse 4:25.

Clearly, Allah Almighty never allowed marriage with a طفلة child!

24:59 واذا بلغ الاطفال منكم الحلم فليستأذنوا كما استأذن الذين من قبلهم كذلك يبين الله لكم اياته والله عليم حكيم
[024:059] But when the children among you come of age, let them (also) ask for permission, as do those senior to them (in age): Thus does God make clear His Signs to you: for God is full of knowledge and wisdom.


ل (children) is a plural, and it is derived from طفل (child), which is singular. الحلم, which is translated as "come of age", literally means when the child knows about sex. For boys, it also means that when he experiences his first [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] either in his sleep or through masturbation.

So clearly again, Allah Almighty differentiated between the children and the teenagers.

So, what should be the age of marriage? 12? 15? 18 an a half? 22? What then?

I have been a Muslim since forever. How long have you subscribed to Paulian Philosophy?

 

[simplegifts]

‏22:5 ياايها الناس ان كنتم في ريب من البعث فانا خلقناكم من تراب ثم من نطفة ثم من علقة ثم من مضغة مخلقة وغير مخلقة لنبين لكم ونقر في الارحام مانشاء الى اجل مسمى ثم نخرجكم طفلا ثم لتبلغوا اشدكم ومنكم من يتوفى ومنكم من يرد الى ارذل العمر لكيلا يعلم من بعد علم شيئا وترى الارض هامدة فاذا انزلنا عليهاالماء اهتزت وربت وانبتت من كل زوج بهيج
[022:005] O mankind! if ye have a doubt about the Resurrection, (consider) that We created you out of dust, then out of sperm, then out of a leech-like clot, then out of a morsel of flesh, partly formed and partly unformed, in order that We may manifest (our power) to you; and We cause whom We will to rest in the wombs for an appointed term, then do We bring you out as babes, then (foster you) that ye may reach your age of full strength; and some of you are called to die, and some are sent back to the feeblest old age, so that they know nothing after having known (much), and (further), thou seest the earth barren and lifeless, but when We pour down rain on it, it is stirred (to life), it swells, and it puts forth every kind of beautiful growth (in pairs).



‏40:67 هو الذي خلقكم من تراب ثم من نطفة ثم من علقة ثم يخرجكم طفلا ثم لتبلغوا اشدكم ثم لتكونوا شيوخا ومنكم من يتوفى من قبل ولتبلغوا اجلا مسمى ولعلكم تعقلون
[040:067] It is He Who has created you from dust then from a sperm-drop, then from a leech-like clot; then does he get you out (into the light) as a child: then lets you (grow and) reach your age of full strength; then lets you become old,- though of you there are some who die before;- and lets you reach a Term appointed; in order that ye may learn wisdom.

‏4:25 ومن لم يستطع منكم طولا ان ينكح المحصنات المؤمنات فمن ماملكت ايمانكم من فتياتكم المؤمنات والله اعلم بايمانكم بعضكم من بعض فانكحوهن باذن اهلهن واتوهن اجورهن بالمعروف محصنات غير مسافحات ولامتخذات اخدان فاذا احصن فان اتين بفاحشة فعليهن نصف ماعلى المحصنات من العذاب ذلك لمن خشى العنت منكم وان تصبروا خير لكم والله غفور رحيم
A girl starts out being a child طفلة. This is further proven in Noble Verses 22:5 and 40:67 above (طفلا child). Then she becomes a fataat فتاة , which is what فتياتكم (your young ladies) is derived from in Noble Verse 4:25.

Clearly, Allah Almighty never allowed marriage with a طفلة child!

24:59 واذا بلغ الاطفال منكم الحلم فليستأذنوا كما استأذن الذين من قبلهم كذلك يبين الله لكم اياته والله عليم حكيم
[024:059] But when the children among you come of age, let them (also) ask for permission, as do those senior to them (in age): Thus does God make clear His Signs to you: for God is full of knowledge and wisdom.


ل (children) is a plural, and it is derived from طفل (child), which is singular. الحلم, which is translated as "come of age", literally means when the child knows about sex. For boys, it also means that when he experiences his first [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] either in his sleep or through masturbation.

So clearly again, Allah Almighty differentiated between the children and the teenagers.

So, what should be the age of marriage? 12? 15? 18 an a half? 22? What then?

I have been a Muslim since forever. How long have you subscribed to Paulian Philosophy?

What point are you making by posting those verse? Your allah gave no age parameters and not even discussing marriage in those verses.

LOL! That verse you quote is about a child entering a room where a man might be with their wife or in a stage of undress: http://www.qtafsir.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2414&Itemid=79

And according to the Quran if you don't know then you must ask the People of the Book.

010.094
YUSUFALI: If thou wert in doubt as to what We have revealed unto thee, then ask those who have been reading the Book from before thee: the Truth hath indeed come to thee from thy Lord: so be in no wise of those in doubt.
PICKTHAL: And if thou (Muhammad) art in doubt concerning that which We reveal unto thee, then question those who read the Scripture (that was) before thee. Verily the Truth from thy Lord hath come unto thee. So be not thou of the waverers.
SHAKIR: But if you are in doubt as to what We have revealed to you, ask those who read the Book before you; certainly the truth has come to you from your Lord, therefore you should not be of the disputers.

Mental and physical age can be reached at different times depending on what a child has seen, heard and been taught. That does not change when a person is at an age of physical maturity.

It is physical age that must be considered when there is a chance of pregnancy and I repeat it is different for every girl, but basically after puberty.

I have been a follower of Christ for a long time.

 

[simplegifts]

You won't find Esther referenced by Jesus or by anyone in the New Testament, same with the Song of Songs.

So that isn't sufficient enough criteria.

What became the Christian Old Testament was, more-or-less an acceptance of the Seputagint, with the occasional quibble over this or that. For example St. Athanasius in one of his paschal letters enumerates what he considers the books of the Old Testament, it looks a lot like the Protestant Old Testament--but regards Esther as spurious, but includes Baruch.

St. Jerome quibbled over the Deuterocanonicals to some extent, but didn't press the issue too hard.

The Reformation pressed the issue again, leading to Luther delegating the Deuterocanonicals to their own section in his translation between the Old and New Testaments; other Protestant translators continued that tradition, including the original Authorized Version of King James (where they remained until the the 19th century).

The truth is the Deuterocanonical Question is hardly a solved one, while the Roman Catholic Church officially came down on the issue at the Council of Trent, and Protestant confessions came down as well (such as the original 39 Articles by the Church of England during its more Reformed stage of life); it is hardly an ecumenically solved question.

It's worth noting that there is no official Lutheran position. Lutherans typically follow the Protestant tradition set in motion by Luther, but our Confessions don't actually address the issue one way or the other.

-CryptoLutheran

Except that as far as I know Books such as Ezra, Nehemiah and Esther were always considered a part of history and Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon in the poetry collection of Jewish books .

 

[toLiJC]

What are the differences between Islam and christianity? I know they differ on the nature of God and the purpose behind the death of Jesus but what else?

They seem much more alike than different to me.

the quran is an extended continuation of the old covenant with some elements of the New Testament

Blessings

 

[ViaCrucis]

Except that as far as I know Books such as Ezra, Nehemiah and Esther were always considered a part of history and Ecclesiastes and Song of Solomon in the poetry collection of Jewish books .

In the first century there was no clear consensus among the various Jewish groups as to what the definitive outline of Scripture looked like. Pharisaism embraced the Torah and the Prophets, and thus those two sections of books were rather established; it is the third section--the Writings--that was far blurrier and less well defined.

Those boundaries became more well defined later, well after the split between Christianity and Judaism. And thus the Jewish Tanakh and the Christian Old Testament developed along different paths, two distinct canonical traditions.

The Tanakh is sectioned--as the name would suggest--between Torah, Prophets, and Writings. While the Old Testament is sectioned as Pentateuch, History, Wisdom, and Prophets.

The development of the Christian Old Testament happened in parallel with the finishing touches on the Tanakh. Christians didn't simply take the Tanakh with them, as there was no fully formed Tanakh yet when Christianity began and spread throughout the ancient Roman world. Which is why some "Writing" literature such as Esther or Sirach was very much still disputed within the Christian Church.

-CryptoLutheran